Why all the NWN 2 hate?

[Sykar]

NWN2 is like a skim decaf single-shot latte. Otherwise known as a "Why Bother?"

Same for NWN 1, outside of community modules, if you are into such things.

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

And that's how Obsidian's games typically are. It's not like with Bioware where you realize there's no hope and all is left is laugh at them. But Obsidian is so desperate to be (sub)mediocre despite their potential that it's infuriating.

While this is true for Bioware right now, I actually feel pretty much the exact same about DA:O that I do about NWN2. Both are hopelessly mediocre games marred by trash mobs, boring combat systems, shitty plot, and annoying companions. But at the same time, they each have flashes of real inspiration that make it so much more infuriating that most of the game is shit.

Honestly, the only big difference that I see between the two games is that NWN2 spread its moments of quality out through the game while DA:O clumped them all in the beginning. That's probably why I finished the former and not the latter, because just as I was on the verge of quitting it would give me something legitimately cool and fun which would help me forgive it's flaws for another few hours. While the memory of DA:O's beginning eventually faded away completely under anger at yet another endless trash mob dungeon.

 

[GloomFrost]

I played nwn2 oc ages ago but the thing I remember the most is by far THE worst camera imaginable in a cRPG genre. I certainly don't hate it however and ready to forgive EVERYTHING just because Obsidian made TMOTB afterwards. But that is another story for another time.

 

[Copper]

Actually, apart from some rather minor issues, I thought Act 1 was 'fine', even the prologue for 'village champion destined for great things' at least had some half-decent evil options. Act 2 was when I asked myself 'is this shit fun? Do I want to redo an hour of banal combat & dialog inside Ammon Jerro's tomb because his scripting broke?' and never went back.

Bugs are obvious a subjective issue, often depending on the machine, but I found the game's scripting to be terrible. (I also had to redo the attack on Garius(?) in the Keep because I chose the wrong dialog option after the fight was done and ended up stuck in a sealed off room.

 

[Kem0sabe]

It's as mediocre a campaign as the original neverwinter, followed up by two very different but equally great expansions... All wrapped in the most godawful engine obsidian could use.

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

It's as mediocre a campaign as the original neverwinter

Woah there, let's not go overboard. Nothing deserves to be compared to the horrendous piece of irredeemable garbage that is the NWN OC.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Woah there, let's not go overboard. Nothing deserves to be compared to the horrendous piece of irredeemable garbage that is the NWN OC.

There are no 50 shades of mediocrity. I lump them together with a clear conscience

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

NWN OC isn't mediocre. It's straight up manure.

Would you rather eat a shitty burger, or a burger literally made of shit?

 

[Grunker]

Great implementation of rules in principle.

Too bad everything else sucks.

Yet I've played the game more than it deserves because the character development is just so damned fine. It's the only redeemable quality the game has, though.

 

[Kem0sabe]

NWN OC isn't mediocre. It's straight up manure.

Would you rather eat a shitty burger, or a burger literally made of shit?

I care not for the culinary habits of degenerate mainlanders. Both campaigns were an exercise in persistence to get through.

 

[Lilura]

The cam isn't a valid complaint anymore. If you're a PC gamer, you should know to patch your game, RTFM and tweak settings and inis (eg, Edge_Turn).

Storm of Zehir for NWN2 probably doesn't get enough love on the Codex, sort of like Hordes of the Underdark doesn't for NWN. For anyone interested in having a painless experience with SoZ (and NWN2's cam n control), read this.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

I like SoZ conceptually but mechanically, NWN2 isn't a great engine for that idea. So many loading screens

 

[Lilura]

Since decompression of the files didn't speed NWN2 up, I just used a RAM disk... but anyway, I should point out that with modern hardware the load times are much better than when SoZ came out..

 

[Ramireza]

Another point why NWN2 sucks : The city of Neverwinter, omg its sooo terrible compared to Athkatla. Well, ok. Nearly every city in fantasy RPG suck.

Ah yes, the Character Design is from Hell :

3 years before 3D Charakters looked better :

WTF? What were they thinking?

 

[Lilura]

Bah, even NWN1 models look better than NWN2..

 

[Infinitron]

^Have you come seeking the light?

 

[Xenich]

I have to say... they are correct, what the hell did they do? It was like they fired all the talent and hired a bunch of second rates to carry on.

 

[Greatness]

I guess the artists were suffering from the same thing that plagued their writers at the time. Let's call it poor management.

 

[Xenich]

I guess the artists were suffering from the same thing that plagued their writers at the time. Let's call it poor management.

Well, they signed their name to it... makes them just as guilty. Gotta be willing to walk away from a job on principals or you might as well go flip burgers for a living.

 

[Athelas]

I have to say... they are correct

Not really, NWN2's models are just higher fidelity so they come closer to the uncanny valley. In what world is this

Spoiler

or this

Spoiler

worse than NWN1's models?

 

[hell bovine]

^Have you come seeking the light?

No, we were obviously seeking glowing disco balls:

Spoiler

Disco Inferno! :D

 

[Eyestabber]

NWN OC isn't mediocre. It's straight up manure.

Would you rather eat a shitty burger, or a burger literally made of shit?

I agree. I remember that BG 2 had loading screens (latter removed) stating that NWN would allow us to import our BG characters, HEAVILY implying that NWN would be more of the same. And what did they deliver? A shitty solo adventure using fucking D&D rules? REALLY!? D&D was NEVER meant for fucking solo adventures, what the hell is WRONG with these people? NWN OC's crimes cannot be forgotten nor can they be forgiven. Ever. NWN 2 gave us our parties back, that ought to count for something.

Well, despite the occasional troll, this thread helped me see that I enjoy NWN 2 because the things the game does RIGHT are the things I enjoy the most (D&D 3.5, tinkering with builds, planning my gear progression and so on) and the things the game does WRONG don't really bother me much. I see another person posted a direct link to a mod that fixes the camera issues I mentioned earlier. Maybe that will convince some people to give NWN 2 another shot. Of course, they won't post positive NWN 2 experiences on the Codex for fear of not being considered "cool".

I think it all comes down to the fact that "Implementing a Dungeons and Dragons Ruleset" is something that heavily influences my [positive] opinion towards a game. If the game does not commit any major sins against the sanctity of D&D rules (such as REMOVING THE FUCKING PARTY), I'm always willing to forgive and enjoy said game.

 

[Sykar]

NWN 1 looked like garbage when it came out compared to it's predecessors. NWN 2 looked average but at least not like someone puked all over it.
Animations in both games were equally shitty and retarded though.

 

[Perkel]

Because it was mediacore RPG in every sense.

It was better than NWN1OC but it had the same problems. Trash mobs, poor characterization, pacing and awful camera controls and UI.
Also it was real time with pause game build upon 3rd edition so all of that awesome combat was just bad looking mmoish shit instead of being awesome as ToEE combat.


What Mask of Betreyer did was essentially the same as PST. Throw out any combat balancing and make player powerful and shower him with god items, cut shit and trash combat and focus only on area design, writting, characterization and story.

Hell SoZ compared to NWN2OC is amazing game

 

[Xenich]

Worse.. sorry. They are shit. /shrug

Edit, by the way, the person I commented on showed comparisons. If you think NWN2 is better? Well... that is just dandy and our discussion is over.