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Pathfinder Why Owlcat's Kingmaker Sucks, in Plain Language

Pink Eye

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>why is the kingmaker fanbase so awful
We're a callous lot. Both of determination and iron will. The whole lot of us were forged in the inferno hell that is arguing with toilet pen and paper players, casuals, and TB fanatics. Men like Gregz are dime of a dozen. It's always the same talking points with these faggots. They never change, nor do they present anything of unique value.
 
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Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
why is the kingmaker fanbase so awful
oh right, munchkinism

Taking a companion, not a merc, who can't wear armor and has 9 STR and putting him in the think of the fight.

Pure munchkin. Really nailed me that time Rus.

I like to play Bards in RPGs because they're fun if underpowered, to make sure all my skills are covered, give my fighters Blindfight so they're prepared for the worst, focus on team synergies, etc...

This game that turned out to be a more powerful thing to do than the munchkins.
 
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Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
So you and Pink Eye abused your mod powers to silence detractors, were sensibly banned, and now you're in here shilling for Owlcat?

That's a truly impressive amount of wrong to pack into one sentence. You should be proud.

It's a pity pride proves such poor consolation for self-inflicted misery.
 
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Sykar

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Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Last sentence is nonsense. Conservatively you can easily reach -10 and more on THAC0 That is the equivalent of at least +30 to attack. That is just with weapon and strength bonus on base THAC0 once you factor in buffs you can probably achieve +35 - +40 effectively. Sorry to burst your bubble but high level D&D was always "bloated". From 3.5 on though you got some scaling defense so shit is not automatically over when you win initiative.

I am very aware of this fact, that is why I prefer low level DND to high level ones, as I stated earlier. I also sad that BG2 at least tried to contain it and had more interesting encounters as a result, not that they were entirely successful. By now everyone knows of rogue-dip kensai mage auto-attacking everything to death. This is not an argument in favour of anything though, this is indeed entirely my point that you yourself acknowledge so what are you trying to prove responding to me in a putative counter argument?

>Because the game allows the player exponential power growth but can only counter it by linear stat-bloat, which will never work.
The developers have gone on record and said that they have learned from this, i.e. they learned from making enemies into stat sticks. They said that they are working on introducing different tactical elements based on difficulty.

That's great and I am glad they learned unlike few here who are trying to prove otherwise, if they can add on the resource management of first game with more tactical combat then the second game will definitely be a much better and I am looking forward to it.
It remains to be seen though. With the introduction of the mythic system, there is going to be even more power bloat.

Forgot to ask, is Mythic the Pathfinder equivalent of D&D 3.5 epic levels?
 

Xamenos

Magister
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Pathfinder: Wrath
Last sentence is nonsense. Conservatively you can easily reach -10 and more on THAC0 That is the equivalent of at least +30 to attack. That is just with weapon and strength bonus on base THAC0 once you factor in buffs you can probably achieve +35 - +40 effectively. Sorry to burst your bubble but high level D&D was always "bloated". From 3.5 on though you got some scaling defense so shit is not automatically over when you win initiative.

I am very aware of this fact, that is why I prefer low level DND to high level ones, as I stated earlier. I also sad that BG2 at least tried to contain it and had more interesting encounters as a result, not that they were entirely successful. By now everyone knows of rogue-dip kensai mage auto-attacking everything to death. This is not an argument in favour of anything though, this is indeed entirely my point that you yourself acknowledge so what are you trying to prove responding to me in a putative counter argument?

>Because the game allows the player exponential power growth but can only counter it by linear stat-bloat, which will never work.
The developers have gone on record and said that they have learned from this, i.e. they learned from making enemies into stat sticks. They said that they are working on introducing different tactical elements based on difficulty.

That's great and I am glad they learned unlike few here who are trying to prove otherwise, if they can add on the resource management of first game with more tactical combat then the second game will definitely be a much better and I am looking forward to it.
It remains to be seen though. With the introduction of the mythic system, there is going to be even more power bloat.

Forgot to ask, is Mythic the Pathfinder equivalent of D&D 3.5 epic levels?
Similar concept, but you start taking these levels before you hit 20, and they'll work better in the game than epic imho.
 

Pink Eye

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I'm very into cock and ball torture
Last sentence is nonsense. Conservatively you can easily reach -10 and more on THAC0 That is the equivalent of at least +30 to attack. That is just with weapon and strength bonus on base THAC0 once you factor in buffs you can probably achieve +35 - +40 effectively. Sorry to burst your bubble but high level D&D was always "bloated". From 3.5 on though you got some scaling defense so shit is not automatically over when you win initiative.

I am very aware of this fact, that is why I prefer low level DND to high level ones, as I stated earlier. I also sad that BG2 at least tried to contain it and had more interesting encounters as a result, not that they were entirely successful. By now everyone knows of rogue-dip kensai mage auto-attacking everything to death. This is not an argument in favour of anything though, this is indeed entirely my point that you yourself acknowledge so what are you trying to prove responding to me in a putative counter argument?

>Because the game allows the player exponential power growth but can only counter it by linear stat-bloat, which will never work.
The developers have gone on record and said that they have learned from this, i.e. they learned from making enemies into stat sticks. They said that they are working on introducing different tactical elements based on difficulty.

That's great and I am glad they learned unlike few here who are trying to prove otherwise, if they can add on the resource management of first game with more tactical combat then the second game will definitely be a much better and I am looking forward to it.
It remains to be seen though. With the introduction of the mythic system, there is going to be even more power bloat.

Forgot to ask, is Mythic the Pathfinder equivalent of D&D 3.5 epic levels?
Nah. It's power that is added upon your class progression. You start getting it around early game. There are 10 mythic levels in total. You get the last mythic level at level 20. Owlcat has gone on record to say that they are heavily reworking the system, so we will see.
 
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DalekFlay

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Playing it a while now, at the end of chapter one, and honestly my main issue with it is all the fucking resting you have to do traveling the map. It would be more tolerable if it was a short process, but it takes for-fucking-ever. Just seems pointless, unlike resting in zones.

Everything else is pretty major incline.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Playing it a while now, at the end of chapter one, and honestly my main issue with it is all the fucking resting you have to do traveling the map. It would be more tolerable if it was a short process, but it takes for-fucking-ever. Just seems pointless, unlike resting in zones.

Everything else is pretty major incline.

Reduce your encumbrance.
 

Technomancer

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
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1,464
Playing it a while now, at the end of chapter one, and honestly my main issue with it is all the fucking resting you have to do traveling the map. It would be more tolerable if it was a short process, but it takes for-fucking-ever. Just seems pointless, unlike resting in zones.
I usually force march people until they are half dead to not waste time. Though a few times mosters caught me with pants down. The baron ability to steal food from the local population in your territory wastes only 1 hour. Also, the teleports are great once you build them.
 

Pink Eye

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Playing it a while now, at the end of chapter one, and honestly my main issue with it is all the fucking resting you have to do traveling the map. It would be more tolerable if it was a short process, but it takes for-fucking-ever. Just seems pointless, unlike resting in zones.

Everything else is pretty major incline.
>my main issue with it is all the fucking resting you have to do traveling the map
There are a lot of QoL things you can gain if you know how to game the Kingdom management. The biggest one is magic teleporters.
 

Jinn

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Playing it a while now, at the end of chapter one, and honestly my main issue with it is all the fucking resting you have to do traveling the map. It would be more tolerable if it was a short process, but it takes for-fucking-ever. Just seems pointless, unlike resting in zones.

If you're specifically talking about the length of the resting process, you can also hit space to skip the banter dialogue between party members, which is the thing that usually makes it seem to take so long.
 

DalekFlay

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Reduce your encumbrance.

It's always at medium. Not gonna deal with the tedium of keeping it at light.

>my main issue with it is all the fucking resting you have to do traveling the map
There are a lot of QoL things you can gain if you know how to game the Kingdom management. The biggest one is magic teleporters.

I just killed the Stag Lord, so that should be giving me options soon. It's not a huge deal, just annoying.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Reduce your encumbrance.

It's always at medium. Not gonna deal with the tedium of keeping it at light.

Then you'll be resting a lot. Bags of holding and/or a pet makes light easy. Also giving Octavia a CON belt. Using meals that extend stamina, etc... There are a lot of ways (that all make a big difference) to manage it. I hardly have to rest at all. You can also keep traveling with fatigue since it's only -2/-2. Exhaustion is where it really hurts.
 

DalekFlay

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Then you'll be resting a lot. Bags of holding and/or a pet makes light easy. Also giving Octavia a CON belt. Using meals that extend stamina, etc... There are a lot of ways (that all make a big difference) to manage it. I hardly have to rest at all. You can also keep traveling with fatigue since it's only -2/-2. Exhaustion is where it really hurts.

I'll look at keeping it light, but the real point here isn't that resting on the map is hard or anything. It's that I think the entire mechanic is a flaw of the game. Resting in a zone makes sense as a game mechanic, resting on the map just takes time for no reason. There's no trick or strategy to it, there's no deeper purpose, it's just some useless nod to "realism" when you could just assume resting periodically was part of the travel time. No matter how easy or hard it is to deal with, I think it's dumb.
 

mediocrepoet

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It's a nod to the tabletop systems and consistent with the rest of the game. Did you bring enough supplies to prepare for your journey?

I actually appreciated it, personally. I thought it was a nice touch on an aspect that too many games just hand wave or gloss over. Outside of something like Ultima with the food number or Realms of Arkania with all sorts of preparation items to manage, I can't think of many games that actually deal with travel and its necessities.
 

LannTheStupid

Товарищ
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Pathfinder: Wrath
Well, the game forces you to manage your time, resting is one of the ways time is spent. So if a player is OK with the idea of time management then s/he will look for ways to reduce resting, find them and employ.
 

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