Would Todd Howard still care about RPGs?

[Lacrymas]

Clearly money isn't everything in the gaming business. Some people want to make videogames they would love to play (Obsidian), others make videogames that will make lots of money, but not ones that they would necessarily hold in high regard (in my opinion, this is Todd's case).

That's a false equivalence, Todd and Obsidian aren't the same in an economic scale, not to mention that one is an individual and one is a company. There is no contradiction. I also gave Tyranny as an example of a game which budget isn't very high, not as a game they wanted to make. I also haven't ever said that this industry is all about money, I'm saying Todd is.

It's also not clear whether he'd lose money or not, but that's besides the point. The point is that he would've made his own game if he wanted to (he has the resources available to do so, Josh Sawyer for example doesn't), he hasn't, so there is no grounds to assume that he's seeking anything more than money, and he isn't, that's plainly obvious.

 

[Sigourn]

That's a false equivalence, Todd and Obsidian aren't the same in an economic scale, not to mention that one is an individual and one is a company. There is no contradiction. I also gave Tyranny as an example of a game whose budget isn't very high, not as a game they wanted to make.

"Obsidian", Feargus Urquhart, Tim Cain, Josh Sawyer, Chris Avellone (formerly), all of them would rather make great RPGs over making a game that just sells big and nothing else. Again, it's not a matter of "present", is an hypothetical question because it is based on the impossible which, despite that, can be answered. Of course, getting Todd to admit what would he like to do would be difficult, as I doubt any developer would say "yeah, the games I'm making suck, I'd rather play something else".

 

[Jacob]

if someone gave Todd millions of dollars and said "I don't care about this game making a profit, I care only about a proper RPG"

i dunno about todd himself (why not ask it in bethesda forum?) but if I were in this position I'd make a game that is a "proper RPG" with a budget as low as possible so I can keep the extra money to build a jacuzzi or something like that

 

[pippin]

Why do we care about Todd Howard to begin with? He was the guy who discovered it was fun to play Morrowind in the xbox and the rest is history. That's all you have to say about him.

 

[Lacrymas]

I say just wait a decade more and some indie is going to make a game much better than Morrowind ever was.

 

[Melcar]

Wait, wait, wait... Todd makes games???

 

[Barnabas]

they need to make combat like dragons dogma

 

[Sigourn]

Why do we care about Todd Howard to begin with? He was the guy who discovered it was fun to play Morrowind in the xbox and the rest is history. That's all you have to say about him.

One day I wondered if people really make shit games thinking they are good, or if the only make them because of the money and would rather make something else if they could, no strings attached. And so Todd Howard turned out to be the perfect guinea pig for my small scale philosophical question.

 

[pippin]

Why do we care about Todd Howard to begin with? He was the guy who discovered it was fun to play Morrowind in the xbox and the rest is history. That's all you have to say about him.

One day I wondered if people really make shit games thinking they are good, or if the only make them because of the money and would rather make something else if they could, no strings attached. And so Todd Howard turned out to be the perfect guinea pig for my small scale philosophical question.

It would be counter productive to not think what you're doing is good. Todd tried really hard to get a job in Bethesda (iirc he tried like 4 times), but the problem is that after Morrowind the company grew too fucking much. They have been able to more or less maintain their own quirks and schedules, and people seem to more or less tolerate it, but there's strong competition in the horizon now (CDPR) and that's changing.

 

[Lacrymas]

One day I wondered if people really make shit games thinking they are good, or if the only make them because of the money and would rather make something else if they could, no strings attached. And so Todd Howard turned out to be the perfect guinea pig for my small scale philosophical question.

When framed like that your question is a prudent one. It's both easy and hard to answer, but the short version is "they probably don't know it's shit", but it depends on the context. In Todd's case it doesn't matter whether it's shit or not, that's not on the table at all. Let's hypothetically assume that he was making them from his basement (and also assume that he makes them) and makes them identical to now, but trying to appeal only to niche audiences like the Codex: He wouldn't know they are shit because he makes them like that on purpose, nobody creates anything randomly and by accident, nobody writes a symphony by accident "woops, I wrote a symphony, I'm so clumsy!", "woops, I accidentally created an RPG!", so it's safe to assume that he'll create it to the best of his abilities. Too bad it turns out that creating something meaningful and good is hard, so that's why most games and most creative endeavors are shit and that's why everyone isn't Goethe. So, yeah, they don't make them shit on purpose and probably can't tell they are shit in general, it's just the only thing they can do. It's mostly a variation on the Dunning-Kruger effect. AAA productions have different priorities, however, and it's completely different there.

 

[Sigourn]

When framed like that your question is a prudent one. It's both easy and hard to answer, but the short version is "they probably don't know it's shit", but it depends on the context. In Todd's case it doesn't matter whether it's shit or not, that's not on the table at all. Let's hypothetically assume that he was making them from his basement (and also assume that he makes them) and makes them identical to now, but trying to appeal only to niche audiences like the Codex: He wouldn't know they are shit because he makes them like that on purpose, nobody creates anything randomly and by accident, nobody writes a symphony by accident "woops, I wrote a symphony, I'm so clumsy!", "woops, I accidentally created an RPG!", so it's safe to assume that he'll create it to the best of his abilities. Too bad it turns out that creating something meaningful and good is hard, so that's why most games and most creative endeavors are shit and that's why everyone isn't Goethe. So, yeah, they don't make them shit on purpose and probably can't tell they are shit in general, it's just the only thing they can do. It's mostly a variation on the Dunning-Kruger effect. AAA productions have different priorities, however, and it's completely different there.

Someone who is good at something can create shit on purpose if they know shit sells. I know a modern, proper Fallout game won't sell anywhere near as much as Fallout 4 did. So if I were put at the helm of a AAA company whose purpose was to sell, I would probably say "fuck the Codex, let's see that cash come in, boys."

By no means does that mean I would be able to craft an amazing RPG, but at least I would already have the intention to make one, and leave beside the stuff (radiant quests, voiced protagonist, simplified dialogue, shooting everywhere) that I know is counter-productive to that goal.

 

[Lacrymas]

I was assuming his intent wasn't selling it, but making something extraordinary that will stand the test of time.

 

[Sigourn]

I was assuming his intent wasn't selling it, but making something extraordinary that will stand the test of time.

You mean the "imaginary RPG" I suggested Todd would make? Of course he wouldn't sell it (as he would be unable to), but what I mean is that what I imply (that Todd isn't happy with the games he is currently making) is not exactly preposterous, considering I would be forced to do the same in his place.

 

[Melcar]

What I want to know is why Lucas9 is trying to get The Codex to re-evaluate its stance on The Great Defiler.

 

[Jacob]

you see... todd's favorite game is ultima vii... and isn't that what elder scrolls games are trying to be?

 

[Barnabas]

Todds favorite game is fallout new vegas

 

[Sigourn]

What I want to know is why Lucas9 is trying to get The Codex to re-evaluate its stance on The Great Defiler.

What do you mean, "The Great Defiler"?

 

[Lacrymas]

It would be interesting if Todd (or anyone else famous) went undercover at forums and tried to get people's honest opinions about them, I'd do it if I was famous. One of the saving graces of the Black Abyss that is the internet, given complete anonymity - complete honesty.

 

[Melcar]

Who says Todd isn't already posting at The Codex? He could be anyone.

ESTOY USANDO MI TELEFONO MEXICANO!

 

[pippin]

My name is Hodd Toward.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

todd howard p much made rpgs relevant again

if it wasnt for oblivion we wouldnt have new vegas and all the other awesome rpg video games

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

you guys hating on him is p much teen age rebellion, trying to act like your above the mainstream stuff

 

[Melcar]

Todd Howard appreciation thread.

ESTOY USANDO MI TELEFONO MEXICANO!

 

[Makabb]

It doesn't matter how their offices LOOK, it's about being forced into a creative abyss where you slave over a predetermined max-revenue-generating matrix. I can't imagine a worse place for someone who wants to be "creative", while creating a game is inherently creative.

You have yet much to learn about real life

 

[jaydee2k]

Of course not! What a dumbfuck topic is that ?!