Would you still be willing to play a Silent Storm mod?

[Daigoji_Gai]

That looks very spiffy but it's an RTS :/ Only comparison with SS is the war part of the setting.

I thought one of the major complaints with SS was the turnbased element, and the horrid AP system that was handled to a far better degree in the original X-Com and the original JA series... Maybe they will add a "hot pause" system similar to Fallout Tactics and what is being planned for Jagged Alliance 3D?

What about it is supposedly different?

In terms of how Action Points are handled in X-Com vs. Silent Storm?
Question is unclear sir.

Yes, how is ss different than ja and xcom? The action points seemed the same to me. The only difference I can think of is burst mode (which doesn't work as well) and sniping (which is a very good addition).

Pacing and the cost to bank ratio. I'll write more about it when I get in tonight after "after-work" drinks with the ladyfriend (much more mature than I,so she is no "girl"friend).

If I recall you can just leave some unused and wait for an interrupt. No big deal, and just like in JA or xcom.

The system has a few flaws, such as being able to throw more shurikens than an SMG can fire once you get throwing over 110, but for the most part I think it is better because most of the costs, such as aiming, looking, standing, etc. etc. etc. are based on skill or stat somehow or can be improved with a perk.

So, your skills actually have a subtle but real effect on your character in the long run. You notice serious improvement, but at the same time you can't ever become rambo - unless you are a scout which has some broken issues in the first game....

All very true, but argh, let me go, I promise to respond, while you are right, you begin to see the fault in the action cost tables based on stats with the shuriken example. There are others. Promise to explain, or attempt to, later.

 

[suleo]

ie, bases stockpiling infinite ammo which in turn lessened the need to scavenge most battlefields, etc.

Umm, I'm a soldier in one of the world's greatest armies at the time and I have to *scavenge the battlefield* for ammo? This isn't JA you know, I'm not a merc, I don't get paid big $$$ so I don't have to care about logistics.

And that was my point with the panzerkleins as well. To me, SS suffers from an identity crisis. It is set in WW2 with appropriate weapons etc. Even missions at first are appropriate to the theme. And then it just goes apeshit JamesBond on us with the whole Thor's Hammer thing and Panzerkleins. I just don't like mixed settings that are nonsensical.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

See, this is why I don't trust your bullshit TRUST ME responses ala pete hines.

So where exactly did I say everything in the project was going to be great and to trust me on it? Where did I say the plans I have for the project are going to work out flawlessly? Let's see some quotes to prove it.

If infinite ammo is your big balance concern,t hen you are fucking imbecile...

Yes, "if". Except it isn't. Where in my posts do I make it out to be my only concern? Again, let's see proof, or at the very least anything that would have you think otherwise.

Another example of you just antagonizing and being a histrionic prick over things which simply aren't in my posts. Stop assuming shit and get a life. Though at 72 that may just mean you can only look into masturbation, but hey, there's more dignity in that than making yourself look like a dumbfuck on internet forums.

 

[Nicolai]

I vote in the favor of 'Dumbfuck'.

Tusen takk!

:wink:

Hva får deg til å tro at jeg stemte i ditt favør? "Dumbfuck" er i undertegnedes øyne en mer passende tittel da den i tillegg til å beskrive din analfabetisme, også peker deg ut som en lavpannet idiot, hvilket betyr at det blir lettere for den generelle majoritet å elegant hoppe over dine evinnelig idiotiske poster.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Umm, I'm a soldier in one of the world's greatest armies at the time and I have to *scavenge the battlefield* for ammo? This isn't JA you know, I'm not a merc, I don't get paid big $$$ so I don't have to care about logistics.

And did the world's greatest armies just stood around sending squads into war, then stood around waiting in their bases for soldiers to come back for more equipment after each mission? The point is that all the gear found in battle is mostly pointless to carry around because bases can effortlessly spring new equipment without players having to worry about anything, which goes somewhat against its dungeon crawler mechanics. It isn't about logistics, it's how there is no challenge to getting through a mission, flying back to base and get effortlessly healed and equipped, then go back out and repeat; and how scavenging gear in battlefields only matters when it comes to new or speacial weapons.

And that was my point with the panzerkleins as well. To me, SS suffers from an identity crisis. It is set in WW2 with appropriate weapons etc. Even missions at first are appropriate to the theme. And then it just goes apeshit JamesBond on us with the whole Thor's Hammer thing and Panzerkleins. I just don't like mixed settings that are nonsensical.

I agree it was nonsensical insofar as how the themes and elements were used. Thor's Hammer springs out of nothing, there's no insight into the steampunk technology used, etc., which just makes it clash instead of merging seamlessly. Of course, it's easier to just remove the contradicting or unsatisfying elements rather than create a framework of story and gameplay that makes it all much more credible, but I'm not looking into having the easy way. Unless I go the way of... I don't know, create a mod that tried to depict several instances of the war in a more realistic fashion then I would remove them. But I'm yet undecided on which direction, storywise, it's heading.

 

[bryce777]

See, this is why I don't trust your bullshit TRUST ME responses ala pete hines.

So where exactly did I say everything in the project was going to be great and to trust me on it? Where did I say the plans I have for the project are going to work out flawlessly? Let's see some quotes to prove it.

If infinite ammo is your big balance concern,t hen you are fucking imbecile...

Yes, "if". Except it isn't. Where in my posts do I make it out to be my only concern? Again, let's see proof, or at the very least anything that would have you think otherwise.

Another example of you just antagonizing and being a histrionic prick over things which simply aren't in my posts. Stop assuming shit and get a life. Though at 72 that may just mean you can only look into masturbation, but hey, there's more dignity in that than making yourself look like a dumbfuck on internet forums.

Again, genius, we can only go by what you say, which is stupid bullshit. if that's not the case why would you put it out there? It is an utter nonissue and it's completely realistic as is - as if your base is going to run out of 3030 ammo ffs.

 

[suleo]

And did the world's greatest armies just stood around sending squads into war, then stood around waiting in their bases for soldiers to come back for more equipment after each mission? The point is that all the gear found in battle is mostly pointless to carry around because bases can effortlessly spring new equipment without players having to worry about anything, which goes somewhat against its dungeon crawler mechanics. It isn't about logistics, it's how there is no challenge to getting through a mission, flying back to base and get effortlessly healed and equipped, then go back out and repeat; and how scavenging gear in battlefields only matters when it comes to new or speacial weapons.

Have you played Hidden & Dangerous? The way equipment and ammo was handled in H&D (if I recall correctly, it's been a while) was that you would choose what equipment to take with you on an operation (operations consisted of several missions). Then you would begin the first mission, and equip your squad with ammo and weapons from the ones you took with you. Subsequent missions would still draw weapons and ammo from your initial selection. This made a *lot* of sense in the context of the game, seing as you were part of SAS and were dropped behind enemy lines and had to make do with what you brought with you AND scavenge.

But, once you returned to base, you had a LOT more equipment to select from, since, well, you weren't behind enemy lines anymore.

I agree it was nonsensical insofar as how the themes and elements were used. Thor's Hammer springs out of nothing, there's no insight into the steampunk technology used, etc., which just makes it clash instead of merging seamlessly. Of course, it's easier to just remove the contradicting or unsatisfying elements rather than create a framework of story and gameplay that makes it all much more credible, but I'm not looking into having the easy way. Unless I go the way of... I don't know, create a mod that tried to depict several instances of the war in a more realistic fashion then I would remove them. But I'm yet undecided on which direction, storywise, it's heading.

Actually I'd like to see something closer to H&D (or something to that effect), i.e. focusing on operations conducted by special forces of the combatants involved, with particular focus on the insertion and extraction (i.e. you can't just magically appear on the scene, kill all bad dudes and teleport away).

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Again, genius, we can only go by what you say

So stop bullshiting your way and provide a simple answer. Since you can only go by what I say, point us to where I said anything that would even lead you into assuming what you said.

You're not even trying to make sense, old fart. Try again when your sinapses stop misfiring.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Have you played Hidden & Dangerous? The way equipment and ammo was handled in H&D (if I recall correctly, it's been a while) was that you would choose what equipment to take with you on an operation (operations consisted of several missions). Then you would begin the first mission, and equip your squad with ammo and weapons from the ones you took with you. Subsequent missions would still draw weapons and ammo from your initial selection. This made a *lot* of sense in the context of the game, seing as you were part of SAS and were dropped behind enemy lines and had to make do with what you brought with you AND scavenge.

But, once you returned to base, you had a LOT more equipment to select from, since, well, you weren't behind enemy lines anymore.

Hidden and Dangerous is one of my all time favorite games The Deluxe edition is currently installed on my HD, and I've ordered the sequel+expansion combo pack.

I much prefer that kind of setup than the one in Silent Storm because it requires players to plan ahead what equipment they'll use and they have to make balanced choices for the upcoming missions. It's also a bit more credible to have a team to go away from base on a multitiered mission and returning to base after completing it all, rather than having it go back to base after each and every mission (or giving them the opportunity to do this). Ideally that would be the kind of setup I would like to have in the project.

Actually I'd like to see something closer to H&D (or something to that effect), i.e. focusing on operations conducted by special forces of the combatants involved, with particular focus on the insertion and extraction (i.e. you can't just magically appear on the scene, kill all bad dudes and teleport away).

To be honest, a recent replay of Hidden and Dangerous Deluxe was what prompted me to give a shot at creating this Silent Storm project. While skirmish or all out war scenarios aren't discarded, I wanted to create a game experience that was more reminiscent of Hidden and Dangerous, Commandos 2 and other war games, which combined various gameplay styles into one single package. As a result most missions I'm coming up with are influenced by those games in terms of interplay between squad members and stealth over all out action.

 

[Crichton]

It isn't about logistics, it's how there is no challenge to getting through a mission, flying back to base and get effortlessly healed and equipped, then go back out and repeat; and how scavenging gear in battlefields only matters when it comes to new or speacial weapons.

The problem here isn't the base (which should never run out of anything including ammo), it's the stupid vertical take off x-men blackbird hoverplane bullshit. Non-Harrier planes require air-fields, if this is supposed to be the OSS operating behind enemy lines, than they should have to resupply themselves by air drops and scavanging. If this is just Commando work as part of the main army, there should never be any issue with ammo period.

As to fixing TankSmalls, you can make them vulnerable to anti-infantry weapons like infantry

Reducing their damage thresholds so they are more easilly damaged by conventional weapons is also in the works, coinciding with some of the suggestions given.

make them fast like infantry

as well as introducing some Panzerkleins which will exchange speed for power or resistance

and then the only problem left is that they look fucking stupid, I suggest replacing the models with infantry models so they look like infantry too. I think we may have a winner here. The problem here is that a creature resistant to damage but unable to use terrain properly has no place in the game's tactical system, which is based on use of terrain and high-firepower. This is intrinsic in Voltron suits, no amount of "implementation" can change it.

As for Cobra, what possible reason do all these people of different nationalities and walks of life have for banding together to try to use a laser to blow up the earth? It's not an implementation problem, it's not like there just wasn't enough budget for one more stupid memo that would have explained everything, it reads like something from a mid-80's saturday morning cartoon because it is from from a mid-80s saturday morning cartoon! It's fucking Cobra! You remember them? Serpentor, Cobra Commander, that guy with the alligators, The Cobra Twins with matching scars, I was there. At eight years of age I actually liked watching it, even though I thought it was stupid, now it's completely abhorrent.

If you want to make a Silent Storm Mod, why not use the good things, like the infantry combat system and all the nice period artwork? Don't remake GI-joe meets the Voltron brigade, I already played it and if I knew where those Nival bastards lived I'd firebomb their vodka-stained hovels.

 

[bryce777]

Again, genius, we can only go by what you say

So stop bullshiting your way and provide a simple answer. Since you can only go by what I say, point us to where I said anything that would even lead you into assuming what you said.

You're not even trying to make sense, old fart. Try again when your sinapses stop misfiring.

A simple answer is that you provided one, just one example, and chose that. A terrible example.

Everything you have said has either been idiotic or completely vague. You are doing the worst possible job convincng anyone your mod could be worth a shit.

 

[Nael]

Fuck the stupid Panzerkleins.

I was goin to say the same exact thing . At least I'm not the only one. I would still probably be playing that game from time to time these days if I didn't know that eventually I'd progress far enough to be "rewarded" with those damn things.

They should've just had a character named "Einstein" in the story that explained how Panzerkleins are responsible for a horrible sense of time-dilation because of some Communist conspiracy. At least I would've laughed.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

A simple answer is that you provided one, just one example, and chose that. A terrible example.

Keep trying old man. The attempts are amusing.

 

[kingcomrade]

And did the world's greatest armies just stood around sending squads into war, then stood around waiting in their bases for soldiers to come back for more equipment after each mission?

Well, they're called arsenals or supply bases. It would be easier just to restrict access to the base (like someone said, you have to hair airfields before you get ride in a plane).

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

The problem here isn't the base (which should never run out of anything including ammo), it's the stupid vertical take off x-men blackbird hoverplane bullshit. Non-Harrier planes require air-fields, if this is supposed to be the OSS operating behind enemy lines, than they should have to resupply themselves by air drops and scavanging. If this is just Commando work as part of the main army, there should never be any issue with ammo period.

Check my post preceding yours where I'm discussing that with suleo. The Silent Storm model made it extremely easy to proceed through the game by being able to get almost all of the ammo and equipment you wanted without having to fight for it. It has more to do with credibility of doing this than with the end result.

As to fixing TankSmalls, you can make them vulnerable to anti-infantry weapons like infantry

Reducing their damage thresholds so they are more easilly damaged by conventional weapons is also in the works, coinciding with some of the suggestions given.

make them fast like infantry

as well as introducing some Panzerkleins which will exchange speed for power or resistance

and then the only problem left is that they look fucking stupid, I suggest replacing the models with infantry models so they look like infantry too. I think we may have a winner here. The problem here is that a creature resistant to damage but unable to use terrain properly has no place in the game's tactical system, which is based on use of terrain and high-firepower. This is intrinsic in Voltron suits, no amount of "implementation" can change it.

I don't know if you checked it but earlier I asked you if you saw any advantage of replacing Panzerkleins with actual tanks. Do you think there's some level of tactics that can be improved with standard tanks rather than with PKs (and possible improvements I've mentioned)?

As for Cobra, what possible reason do all these people of different nationalities and walks of life have for banding together to try to use a laser to blow up the earth? It's not an implementation problem, it's not like there just wasn't enough budget for one more stupid memo that would have explained everything, it reads like something from a mid-80's saturday morning cartoon because it is from from a mid-80s saturday morning cartoon! It's fucking Cobra! You remember them? Serpentor, Cobra Commander, that guy with the alligators, The Cobra Twins with matching scars, I was there. At eight years of age I actually liked watching it, even though I thought it was stupid, now it's completely abhorrent.

I agree, the devs fudged it. I can't wait to play Sentinels and see all that hawt GI Joe action.

If you want to make a Silent Storm Mod, why not use the good things, like the infantry combat system and all the nice period artwork? Don't remake GI-joe meets the Voltron brigade, I already played it and if I knew where those Nival bastards lived I'd firebomb their vodka-stained hovels.

That's my point - I don't plan to get rid of the infantry combat system. It's meant to be given more attention and use throughout varios situations because there's plenty of potential. When I talked about Panzerkleins some dolts immediately assumed that it would be PK combat from start to end, and that it would mean everything else that was good about the game was going to get canned. It isn't. Like I said, one of the current scenarios only invisioned them to be used (literally) in a couple of levels and that would be the extension of it. All else = 'standard' infantry combat.

 

[Daigoji_Gai]

I vote in the favor of 'Dumbfuck'.

Tusen takk!

:wink:

Hva får deg til å tro at jeg stemte i ditt favør? "Dumbfuck" er i undertegnedes øyne en mer passende tittel da den i tillegg til å beskrive din analfabetisme, også peker deg ut som en lavpannet idiot, hvilket betyr at det blir lettere for den generelle majoritet å elegant hoppe over dine evinnelig idiotiske poster.

That is your opinion, I ask you to reread my posts and be aware I did not throw the first stone.

Again, Tusen takk and don't rush to judgement and fling insults without giving a person a chance.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

And did the world's greatest armies just stood around sending squads into war, then stood around waiting in their bases for soldiers to come back for more equipment after each mission?

Well, they're called arsenals or supply bases. It would be easier just to restrict access to the base (like someone said, you have to hair airfields before you get ride in a plane).

True, and hence why I agreed with suleo and Crichton. I'm trying to incorporate a more Hidden and Dangerousesque approach: players choose equipment before each campaign and are stuck with it - and anything else they find on missions - until they can return to base at the end of the campaign. It just seems more credible and natural to me.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

This thread would've been so much cooler if Bryce and Aweigh were both dead.

 

[Zomg]

Hey, if you're disappointed by this response RP, keep in mind that there's probably a silent majority that think, "A mod. Cool." and then go to the next thread.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Dead silent would've sufficed. Seriously, when people decide to whine about non-issues and then drag it on and on, it just takes away all will to discuss things in a civil manner. Which was happening until they unplugged their butts and decided to shit all over the thread.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Hey, if you're disappointed by this response RP, keep in mind that there's probably a silent majority that think, "A mod. Cool." and then go to the next thread.

I know, Zomg. I've seen posts in a number of forums about people interested in another foray into the Silent Storm engine, and the support that is in this thread hasn't been lost over the childish antagonism

 

[kingcomrade]

I'm pretty interested in it, I'm just perplexed why you want to stick with the original SS storyline, it's terribly stupid. And while I understand what you mean about "fixing" Panzerkleins, you're going to have to give us a better idea how you are going to make them fun to play with.

 

[aweigh]

Bitch talk.

Keep silent when grown-ups are talking.

 

[aweigh]

When I talked about Panzerkleins some dolts immediately assumed that it would be PK combat from start to end, and that it would mean everything else that was good about the game was going to get canned.

Links please. The only good thing about SS was the combat, and I never even mentioned it when talking about the Panzerkleins, so the only one assuming anything here was you.

 

[aweigh]

Hey, if you're disappointed by this response RP, keep in mind that there's probably a silent majority that think, "A mod. Cool." and then go to the next thread.

I know, Zomg. I've seen posts in a number of forums about people interested in another foray into the Silent Storm engine, and the support that is in this thread hasn't been lost over the childish antagonism

Wee, pot: meet kettle. You're the one who keeps ranting with the personal attacks, long after everyone expressed their hatred of the Panzerklein's and SS's storyline.