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X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread

ArchAngel

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Mar 16, 2015
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I have to say my experience has been different. In a timed mission (which is like 80% of all missions) all it takes is a little bit of bad luck and I find myself fighting two pods at the same time, 6-8 enemies. I then need to concentrate all I have just to take them down quickly, often leaving no actions for overwatch. When in that situation I get another group up my flank and they get free potshots at me because RNG said fuck-you... Well, that is not fun to me. And this happens depressingly often. Even on lower difficulties, chances are a couple of enemies in an enemy pod are likely to get a bonus action. This is more than enough to fuck up a whole mission.

As for non-timer mission, it does not matter, overwatch camping is still the better choice, no matter how many free actions enemies get. That's the consequence of the stupid pod activation system. This is a solution that completely fails to solve the problem, and is really, really bad all on its own as a bonus.
I must say that so far I have been controlling timed missions pretty well but I only do Extremely Light and Very Light missions, at worst Light one if I really need to do that one. If region has become so tough you no longer can do those missions I switch region and go do missions in another one. As a result I don't think I even fought 3 groups at same time except that 3rd "group" being a single drone.

And for no timed missions, yes overwatch is still better but not "I win" button better. Non timed missions in vanilla Xcom 2 are hilariously easy because of this and in expansion with addition of specialized stealth class even easier.
 
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Unfortunately, fighting multiple pods keeps happening to me all the time. Assaults in particular are a big offender here, trying to use them effectively almost guarantees triggering another pod. And trying to be clever and avoid contact before the objective is reached often ends this way for me as well, when my cover gets blown while multiple pods are around me.

And in the end, it's just not as fun as LW1 was, as repetitive as those maps were. Sad that.
 

mastroego

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Bottom line it's better to try and mod WOTC which is wild enough to be fun anyway, either that or go back to LW1 which I will eventually do anyway.
Yeah, it'd be great if more maps could be added to that.
 

ArchAngel

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Unfortunately, fighting multiple pods keeps happening to me all the time. Assaults in particular are a big offender here, trying to use them effectively almost guarantees triggering another pod. And trying to be clever and avoid contact before the objective is reached often ends this way for me as well, when my cover gets blown while multiple pods are around me.

And in the end, it's just not as fun as LW1 was, as repetitive as those maps were. Sad that.
I usually like to have one shinobi per team so it can scout ahead. That usually lets me avoid triggering multiple groups. Yea Assaults are not great because of the need to get into melee range which can trigger more enemies. Being clever works for some missions, not for others. Hacking missions can work if you can hide your troops out of sight, then throw the retreat beacon where you can hack the objective and then when it is ready, you move there, hack it and retreat.
If enemies find you before retreat area is ready at least you are ready to do the mission and evacuate ASAP.

It works less well when missions are longer like taking a civilian through the map or capturing it first, in those missions I prefer to get to middle of map and then open up on single pack to wipe it out. After that even if two packs arrive soon the 3rd pack is dead or too far away to be a threat.
 

ArchAngel

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Bottom line it's better to try and mod WOTC which is wild enough to be fun anyway, either that or go back to LW1 which I will eventually do anyway.
Yeah, it'd be great if more maps could be added to that.
Bottom like is that you didn't really play LW2 enough to make these general claims.
 

mastroego

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No but I did play some and read tons of comments and overviews.
For LW1 it was insta-love, LW2 uses mechanics that feel weird to me and somewhat outside the scope of the tactical game, imho.
At least half the audience feels the same, and that says something, when LW1 was pretty much praised all around.

Still, ok, one can try it and decide for himself, that always applies.
 

ArchAngel

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Also since are talking about LW2 and LW1 here is what the devs of both had to say about it when people asked if LW2 failed compared to LW1:
johnnylump 23 points 5 months ago

We don't regard it as a failure by any stretch.

Some numbers, all gleaned from publically available sources; I don't have any inside knowledge on how many XCOMs sold:

SteamSpy says XCOM has 2.93 million players. Steam achievements suggest that 71.4% of players got anywhere at all in the game (specifically, shooting down a UFO), and about 27% finished it with a campaign victory. If we define our potential audience as people who have finished the base campaign, that's roughly 791,000 players. Long War has 345,000 unique DLs on the Nexus, and another 15,000 on ModDb. That means we hit about 45.5% of the potential audience and 12.2% of all players.

Certainly we don't think only people who finished the game looked at our mods, but I'm using that as a proxy for the proportion of the vanilla playerbase of both games who would consider overhauls like ours.

SteamSpy says XCOM2 has almost 1.6 million players. Steam achievements indicate that 73% of players got anywhere in the game (contacting a region) and 33% finished it with a win. So by the same yardstick, our potential audience is 528,000 players.

Long War 2 peaked at around 265,000 concurrent players on Steam (it dropped below 250k when WotC came out and is currently at 255k). It has about 35,000 unique DLs on the Nexus. I don't have information on how many unique DLs we had on Steam, only that the mod page has 462k unique visitors -- so our total reach is certainly higher (with a notional bound at 462k from Steam), but we'll use 290k players as a very conservative baseline. That means we reached at least 54.9% of our potential audience and 18.1% of all players.

There are certainly points to question this methodology, but it's the best I've come up with, and I don't have better data that I'm holding back on. The accuracy of SteamSpy data is occasionally challenged, so the percentages assume any errors in their data is working the same way for XCOM and XCOM 2.

Probably the biggest flaw in this comparison is that LW spanned both EU and EW, with its main success coming after EW's release, meaning it mainly drew from the subset of the 2.93 million XCOM players who bought EW. Steam achievements suggest about a quarter of players did a genemod or chopped a trooper, which indicates 732,000 players got anywhere with EW installed, so we probably reached close to half of that group with Long War (by subtracting out a rough estimate of EU-only Long Warriors).

In any event, of course the real success of the mods are in the players' enjoyment of them, not just how many clicked a download button, but that's something I'll let you all work out. :)
 

Space Satan

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So, I tried Legendary\Ironman and still couldn't manage to pass first month. Mostly because 2 wounds until first retaliation=rookies during Chosen retaliation fight. Wounded hero = you are screwed during first retaliation. Assassin=retaliation is screwed as she murders all your soldiers without being able to retaliate.
it's a game of chance to the max, pure RNG where you replay until you get unscratched in your first month.
 

ArchAngel

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So, I tried Legendary\Ironman and still couldn't manage to pass first month. Mostly because 2 wounds until first retaliation=rookies during Chosen retaliation fight. Wounded hero = you are screwed during first retaliation. Assassin=retaliation is screwed as she murders all your soldiers without being able to retaliate.
it's a game of chance to the max, pure RNG where you replay until you get unscratched in your first month.
RNG does factor in yes but there are tactics that can help deal with RNG. Like grenades and overwatch traps. Even then it can take a few tries to do the first month with satisfactory results. You can also turn off chosen introductory mission and then you start your gatekeeper with random special soldier. Helps a bit with 1st month (also that introductory mission gets old after doing it a few times). Also you need to get a Sgt after first few missions and have a 5th squad slot unlocked. It can be done if you feed kills to one soldier (even easier to do if you start gatekeeper with Templar).
 

Space Satan

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I never enable Lost and Found mission and know how to play, I've beaten it on veteran\Ironman but wound times are too severe on Legendary. Well, that's Legendary for a reason.
 

ArchAngel

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I never enable Lost and Found mission and know how to play, I've beaten it on veteran\Ironman but wound times are too severe on Legendary. Well, that's Legendary for a reason.
You beaten it on Veteran and that means little. Legendary is its own beast. Even the jump from Commander to Legendary is felt a lot.
Follow my advice and you can easily beat month 1 and 2 on legendary. WotC also makes it much easier than Vanilla Xcom 2 and I have beaten both on Legendary Ironman.
 

Space Satan

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If you are wounded or gravely wounded in a gatekeper then you will recover in time for Chosen retaliation, but secon and lost mission wounds mean you will have to fill your retaliation with rookies. Unless maybe lost dealing 1 damage is about 9 days to recover so could make it in time.
So far only stable way of passing retaliation is a sniper chosen, because warlock spams bombs and dominations and assassin hit and runs with near guarateed kills.
My main problem is engeneers and wounds. If you have no engeneer then you won't make it in time with guerilla school for +1 squad size. And wounds mean you'll face chosen with rookies.
 

ArchAngel

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Mar 16, 2015
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It is not that hard to mostly avoid wounds. You should be restarting gatekeeper until you get no wounds and no deaths success.
It is how it is in first month in xcom2.
It is one of the reasons why I enjoy LW2 much more.
 

Parabalus

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Mar 23, 2015
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If you start with Templar and proc Bladestorm on his early bonus skills you can trivialize the beginning. Also avoid the Assassin chosen, like you said by far the worst early.
 

Space Satan

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Templar do not guarantee a kill. They cannot even kill sectoid with melee vulnerability. They kill only with crits and thye are extremely unreliable
 

Galdred

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Templar do not guarantee a kill. They cannot even kill sectoid with melee vulnerability. They kill only with crits and thye are extremely unreliable
Templar are godly with bladestorm and borderline useless without.
Bladestorm allows you to hit the target, then be sure to lend a second hit before it moves.
 

ArchAngel

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Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,998
Templar do not guarantee a kill. They cannot even kill sectoid with melee vulnerability. They kill only with crits and thye are extremely unreliable
Of course they do. You throw a grenade or have a wounded enemy and templar guarantee a kill and then they soak that one last guy's shot.
 

lightbane

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Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
10,200
Started playing this. It's okay but shares many of the Nu-XCOM's flaws and then some, including bugs not patched to this day, forcing you to use mods tp fox the, :decline: . In exchange, the mod variety is impressive, although I was wondering if there was a way to make vanilla game harder to compensate for a larger squad (say 10 soldiers) without forcibly increasing the number of enemy pods appearing, as that invariably degenerates into situations like 8 sectoids cramped into a corner of an UFO, which is not okay. I know the WOTC expansion has a better mod about this, but not so much for the vanilla game. Thus, what are you recommendations to make the game harder quality-wise rather than quantity, people?

In another note, I'm glad this game came out in 2015/2016 instead of present day, as the resistance plot would pretty much make the ayylens literal Nazis and/or Trump parodies, followed by making the heroes unlikable, ridiculously Mary Sue-ish PC archetypes, as SJWenstein and Vampyr did. Perhaps the devs knew that SJW-friendly games don't sell?

For extra hilarity there's a Trump voicepack that's NOT banned so far as an available mod.
 

ArchAngel

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Mar 16, 2015
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Long war 2 mod of course. It does not degenerate into 8 sectopods but they added lots of stronger versions of existing aliens to challenge you.
 

mastroego

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Italy
A Better Advent also adds variants of existing aliens. Or was it A Better Campaign?
But yeah I have the WotC version, so I don't know about vanilla.
 

Stavrophore

Most trustworthy slavic man
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Strap Yourselves In
Long war 2 mod of course. It does not degenerate into 8 sectopods but they added lots of stronger versions of existing aliens to challenge you.

Last time i played long war 2 it had 60+ enemies on missions, sometimes 80. Talk about not swarming you with shit.
 

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