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X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread

Discussion in 'Chad's Tactical Gaming & Strategy and Simulation' started by Morgoth, May 26, 2015.

  1. mastroego Arcane

    mastroego
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    Well I tinkered a bit with the console and eventually it got past this point. No cheats or anything, who knows.
    Anyway, good fun with this game so far.
     
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  2. Dodo1610 Educated

    Dodo1610
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    I really enjoyed War of the chosen espacially the time between loading quicksaves.
     
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  3. DakaSha V Self-Ejected

    Self-Ejected
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    Sounds like youre a pussy bitch
     
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  4. Fedora Master Liturgist

    Fedora Master
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    You mean the time between loading, talking NPCs and overly long animations when you can actually play for 5 seconds.
     
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  5. ArchAngel Arcane

    ArchAngel
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    I started to play LW2 again, on commander/ironman. For me this is best version of new Xcom out there.

    I don't miss air combat as it was kind of stupid in all previous xcom games. Ufo version was only about if you shoot them down before enemy escapes, rtwp version in Xeno was about learning a few tricks and then abusing them all the time, and LW1 was about pure RNG that you beat by throwing more interceptors at enemy UFO and hoped that enough of them are repaired before next UFO encounter.

    Infiltration mechanic I really like, it is a bit confusing at first but once you figure out how it all works it is a nice way to force you to field multiple teams without a need for fatigue mechanic or having gameplay that often injures your soldiers. You get to make more complicated choices than forcing a fatigued soldier to do missions anyways.

    But the best one is Concealment. Xcom 2 vanilla had a good idea but a bad implementation and expansion has made it worse. LW2 hits it just right with just a small change - by letting you acomplish mission objectives without needing to kill all enemies. That lets you try to do every mission using stealth but does not punish you if you don't (unless you sent one or two soldiers only and planned for little to no combat). It is super fun to on occasion do the mission with little to no killing.
    LW2 helps you acomplish this by giving you some tools that boost stealth gameplay (shinobi, smgs, stealth hacking drones) but without making super OP stealth units like in WotC exp.
    Also concealment is tied into Infiltration mechanics because if you feel you cannot do the mission with a full squad you can always try to acomplish it with a 1-3 man team (if you are willing to risk them).

    Contrary to popular belief, mission timers are great in LW2, just like concealment they needed a fix to make them truly great. LW2 did this by making them much longer (some are doubled) but they added enemy reinforcements to show up if you are taking too long. As a result you don't need to be double moving as often as possible but you are not allowed to overwatch crawl like in LW1 (#1 reason why I could not enjoy it). They added tactics into the game but also force you to think about that next round or 5 rounds into the future.

    There are plenty more good stuff to talk about but I am already risking tldr buttons marking this post so I will leave that for another time.
     
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  6. Alienman Arcane Patron

    Alienman
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    Just wish they would port the mod or something to the new engine. Currently playing LW2 and it's so laggy and it crashes at random after missions.
     
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  7. mastroego Arcane

    mastroego
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    One of the main reasons I dropped LW2.

    Honestly I'm having fun with WotC, but I've stopped for a while as my OCD sadly kicked in.
    Everything was fine and all, the combination of mods felt right, except for the classes. It is the ONE unresolved issue, so far, for me.
    Richard's classes are not bad at all, but they're not seamlessly integrated into the game. Texts aren't updated to match them, and so on. It's in your face constantly.
    I might restart with vanilla classes but... No Scout? No Gunner? No Medic? Shit.

    I hope a definitive reworking of the classes will come out sooner or later.


    EDIT: looking right now at Raidey's Class Overhaul [WOTC]. Anyone tried it?
     
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  8. ArchAngel Arcane

    ArchAngel
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    Yea, it was a fucked up move by Firaxis to only bring engine improvements into the expansion. Xcom 2 is last game I bought from them. Fuck em.
     
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  9. ArchAngel Arcane

    ArchAngel
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    Ok, LW2 Commander/Ironman kicked my ass, or to be more precise a Supply Raid did. 99% infiltration, 8 soldiers and 4 strength region and I still had no chance. The main command group was 3 mecs and 3 mutons (and not normal ones) and by the time I fought them I used up all my best weapons to survive other enemies... OK restarting on Veteran/Ironman.
     
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  10. mastroego Arcane

    mastroego
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    I've decided to try the LW class port.
    So this is my new mod configuration for classes and related equipment and mechanics:

    - Long War SMG Pack - WotC (unofficial)
    - Long War Laser Pack - WotC (unofficial)
    - [WOTC] LW2 Utility Plating
    - [WOTC] LW2 Secondary Weapons
    - [WOTC] LW2 Classes and Perks
    - Utility Slot Sidearms WOTC (for pistols)
    - Training Center Perk Configurator (for pistol perks)
    - [WOTC] Extended Explosive Tweaks

    I hope it'll feel organic enough, this time.
     
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  11. Parabalus Arcane

    Parabalus
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    Did you try the ABA class mod?
    I know you mentioned they rub you the wrong way, but if you're testing stuff anew might wanna give it a go.
     
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  12. mastroego Arcane

    mastroego
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    Well, testing stuff honestly isn't my goal, I just had to, to some extent, in order to set up a good campaign.

    Anyway, if you mean ABB (A Better Barracks), actually I wanted to go and consider the class descriptions again while looking for a solution to my own little puzzle.
    And I confirm my first impression, it's not something I'd want to play. It's weird that a capable modder (his other mods are a staple by now, as I understand) would make classes so weird.
    A class that you'd expect to favor agility gets the cannon, for the best sniping skills you'd have to take the Specialist who's also a Medic... like, what?
    Perhaps they work fine, gameplay-wise, but we Codexers have also a tradition as RPGers, it's not for us imho, at least not for me.
     
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  13. Zero Credibility Arcane

    Zero Credibility
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    I'm actually playing a LW2 game right now, on and off. What I found to work best for me in missions with no timers is to take as many snipers as possible, park them on high ground in a corner, then use a hidden shinobi as a spotter. Works especially well once snipers get Longwatch. Trigger a group with a mass Longwatch fire, then pick up the survivors one by one when they desperately try to close the distance. Completely unfair.
     
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  14. ArchAngel Arcane

    ArchAngel
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    Hard to get so many higher level snipers with useful weapon upgrades. Also some maps don't have accessible high ground. Like the one that made me quit commander difficulty. By the time I fought these mecs and mutons I had no more flashbangs to stop mutons from charging my units and one shotting them :(
     
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  15. Zero Credibility Arcane

    Zero Credibility
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    Yeah, game very much depends on what you can field. Looking at my roster, the top half are snipers, shinobi, specialists and psykers. Everyone else I use only when I run out of those. All in all, I have to say I do not find LW2 even close as fun as the first one was. It feels like they keep introducing retarded shit to counter some super-players, which then forces me to use cheesy tactics (like those snipers) to have a chance myself. Take those reflex actions, oh god how I hate those. Because letting enemy activate on their turn is far, far better than you doing it yourself, they introduce this bullshit.
     
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  16. ArchAngel Arcane

    ArchAngel
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    I think reflex actions are OK, it was way too easy to do missions without timers in vanilla Xcom 2 when you just wait for enemies to walk into your overwatch. You didn't even need to be in cover, I would just place everyone at edge of hill to make sure everyone had a line of fire.
     
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  17. Zero Credibility Arcane

    Zero Credibility
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    The thing is, there already is a mechanics to stop constant overwatch spam, the mission timers, and most of the missions are timed. You go too slow, you get more reinforcements dropped on you, and eventually you lose the mission. Now though... say I'm engaging one or two groups in a pitch battle, when another group double times it from half across the map right into my flank, scampers for cover while I watch helplessly, then start one shotting my men that have no cover against them. Four bloody moves. It breaks the rules of the game, it has no counter, and it might as well be replaced with random lightning strikes that kill one of my men every once in a while. It was already punishing enough to try to play aggressively, what with the retarded pod activation system and how dangerous it was to activate more than one group. Now I feel like I'm being punished for engaging the enemies at all.
     
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  18. ArchAngel Arcane

    ArchAngel
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    For most missions it does not matter as you should not be fighting large groups of enemies anyways. You should be moving towards you objective and escaping afterwards. Also them shooting is a random roll. For each guy that got a chance to attack, next one has a lower chance to also get a shot. It is very low chance that 3 of them get to shoot you. Also, even with them flanking it is not an automatic hit or crit.
    And for mission where you will be fighting large groups, those don't have mission timers and reflex actions are needed to not abuse the pod system.
     
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  19. Zero Credibility Arcane

    Zero Credibility
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    I have to say my experience has been different. In a timed mission (which is like 80% of all missions) all it takes is a little bit of bad luck and I find myself fighting two pods at the same time, 6-8 enemies. I then need to concentrate all I have just to take them down quickly, often leaving no actions for overwatch. When in that situation I get another group up my flank and they get free potshots at me because RNG said fuck-you... Well, that is not fun to me. And this happens depressingly often. Even on lower difficulties, chances are a couple of enemies in an enemy pod are likely to get a bonus action. This is more than enough to fuck up a whole mission.

    As for non-timer mission, it does not matter, overwatch camping is still the better choice, no matter how many free actions enemies get. That's the consequence of the stupid pod activation system. This is a solution that completely fails to solve the problem, and is really, really bad all on its own as a bonus.
     
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  20. ArchAngel Arcane

    ArchAngel
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    I must say that so far I have been controlling timed missions pretty well but I only do Extremely Light and Very Light missions, at worst Light one if I really need to do that one. If region has become so tough you no longer can do those missions I switch region and go do missions in another one. As a result I don't think I even fought 3 groups at same time except that 3rd "group" being a single drone.

    And for no timed missions, yes overwatch is still better but not "I win" button better. Non timed missions in vanilla Xcom 2 are hilariously easy because of this and in expansion with addition of specialized stealth class even easier.
     
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  21. Zero Credibility Arcane

    Zero Credibility
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    Unfortunately, fighting multiple pods keeps happening to me all the time. Assaults in particular are a big offender here, trying to use them effectively almost guarantees triggering another pod. And trying to be clever and avoid contact before the objective is reached often ends this way for me as well, when my cover gets blown while multiple pods are around me.

    And in the end, it's just not as fun as LW1 was, as repetitive as those maps were. Sad that.
     
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  22. mastroego Arcane

    mastroego
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    Bottom line it's better to try and mod WOTC which is wild enough to be fun anyway, either that or go back to LW1 which I will eventually do anyway.
    Yeah, it'd be great if more maps could be added to that.
     
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  23. ArchAngel Arcane

    ArchAngel
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    I usually like to have one shinobi per team so it can scout ahead. That usually lets me avoid triggering multiple groups. Yea Assaults are not great because of the need to get into melee range which can trigger more enemies. Being clever works for some missions, not for others. Hacking missions can work if you can hide your troops out of sight, then throw the retreat beacon where you can hack the objective and then when it is ready, you move there, hack it and retreat.
    If enemies find you before retreat area is ready at least you are ready to do the mission and evacuate ASAP.

    It works less well when missions are longer like taking a civilian through the map or capturing it first, in those missions I prefer to get to middle of map and then open up on single pack to wipe it out. After that even if two packs arrive soon the 3rd pack is dead or too far away to be a threat.
     
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  24. ArchAngel Arcane

    ArchAngel
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    Bottom like is that you didn't really play LW2 enough to make these general claims.
     
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  25. mastroego Arcane

    mastroego
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    No but I did play some and read tons of comments and overviews.
    For LW1 it was insta-love, LW2 uses mechanics that feel weird to me and somewhat outside the scope of the tactical game, imho.
    At least half the audience feels the same, and that says something, when LW1 was pretty much praised all around.

    Still, ok, one can try it and decide for himself, that always applies.
     
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