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Xenogears

Forest Dweller

Smoking Dicks
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
12,196
mediocrepoet said:
This game is pretty pretentious. It only seems deep and awesome when you approach it from a "I don't know anything about first year philosophy/psychology but think I'm really quite the deep thinker" perspective generally held by younger people. ;)
Are you saying that what you learn in first year psychology class debunks what happens in Xenogears? That none of it makes sense anymore? Please elaborate.

Also do give me an example of a game that has the same amount of thematic depth but isn't pretentious in your view.

Serious_Business said:
The conclusion is pretty pedestrian if I remember right : man must find meaning by supporting each others (i.e. the power of love).
Now I see you didn't get it or understand it, so it makes sense you would consider it pretentious.

As far as the word pretentious being used in a defensive way by those who don't approach rational efforts favorably, well that might be quite true, however we seem to have the case of a budding superiority complex here and I'd rather not feed that, so for your own good Dicksmoker, here's the punchline : you are a faggot and not elite, go read books instead of parading like a stupid little punk with your animu bullshit
Yeah, you're right, I know you would never feel the same way yourself. Oh wait -
Serious_Business said:
The gameplay is still horrid and way too easy of course, but I really want to emphasize the writing. I just re-read VD's interview with MCA, he (VD) basically commented that the story was about finding 4 jedi masters and killing the bad guy, but VD has the culture and sensibility of my balls, so fuck him (MCA pretty much ignored him and probably thought the same thing as I do, oh yeah). It's really something else, especially if you're willing to change 'Force' with 'God', 'Darth Nihilus' with 'nihilism', and 'exile' with 'lucidity' in most of the script, then you're up for something. Espcially if you're not the type of asshole that thinks he's brilliant and knows everything about everything. Now this is the Codex so there's slim chances next to none that you're not that kind of person, but yeah, I'd say this is on the level of Torment, easily enough. I'm wondering what are MCA's influences, I'm not sure if he's well-read or not, but he sure has a sensibility that shows in his writing. I wouldn't let the Star Wars bullshit get to you, it doesn't matter, MCA rapes the setting anyway and for the good cause. I like the original movies like anyone else, they're fun, and like anyone else I don't like the prequels. But I don't care about any of them. This however is serious shit, it's serious star wars shit man, for me it's probably the only thing that's worth it. Compared this to the first game, it's totally another world, I love the contrast with Bioware's weak and obvious shit, I could write an essay on that, fuck.

I'm serious, this is now probably one of my favourite rpgs. I mean the gameplay in Torment was shit, so there's no reason why this can't be considered too. Anyway fuck you I'm a pretentious faggot who thinks the writing and characters is the most important thing in a game, yeah, I should be reading a book instead I know, but this was still a pretty cool experience. MCA is my rpg hero, I mean really, really my hero. Sucks with what is happening with AP, but I'll have to see it for myself, I guess
Why don't YOU fuck off with your blatant hypocrisy?
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
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Messages
11,486
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Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Dicksmoker said:
mediocrepoet said:
This game is pretty pretentious. It only seems deep and awesome when you approach it from a "I don't know anything about first year philosophy/psychology but think I'm really quite the deep thinker" perspective generally held by younger people. ;)
Are you saying that what you learn in first year psychology class debunks what happens in Xenogears? That none of it makes sense anymore? Please elaborate.

No, what I'm saying is it didn't make a whole lot of sense to begin with and when you start actually looking at it more deeply it starts to make you want to poke your eyes out with a broken spork. The classes help you realize that perhaps what the game is doing is less "deep", "interesting" and "profound" and perhaps more along the lines of name dropping. Off the top of my head, the past incarnation called Lacan, the Zohar which is Deus' power source (n.b. you'd have to be pretty brainfucked to think this is still awesome if they just called the machine "God" and his power source "The Bible").

So anyway, background information gained from a bit of education and reading sources helps the awe-inspiring depth seem trite and fanboys worshipping that aspect of the game to seem silly. I would suggest that if you believe there is further depth that I am dismissing that you go ahead and make your case since I have not played this game in 12 years and have less than no desire to go back and re-play it, especially now that I've glanced at plot information to help jog my memory. It does make me think that along with the whimsical side of my younger days, I may have been more of a dumbfuck than I would like to remember.


Also do give me an example of a game that has the same amount of thematic depth but isn't pretentious in your view.

Yeah, this is a problem. There's a disconnect in our discourse. You see, I'm saying that there isn't really any thematic depth in the game, really. It seems like there could be. I think maybe they even tried for it, but it's a sprawling mess that touches on a lot of things without ever really digging into anything. (cf. "depth" and "breadth") More simply: touching on a lot of topics without getting into any of them isn't a sign of a work of genius, it tends to be a sign of inexperienced writing that needs a decent editor.

I suspect I couldn't easily (maybe not at all) name another RPG that has the breadth of theme that Xenogears has, but you'd have to start looking at things like Akalabeth to find a game that has less thematic depth.

Look, here are some of the topics covered by this game. Most simply being an allusion or quest that's presented in a name dropped manner rather than really engaging with the subject matter. Some of the subjects are covered better than others, but most are simply glossed over or exist as art or because it's cool rather than much else. I'm using spoiler tags since some people may still want to play the thing.

God is a machine. Yes it created all life on the planet in a manner.

The protagonist is an amnesiac who sometimes physically manifests his id and then fights stuff - including the party. Of course he never remembers since his id is separated from his ego and superego. He also has a power level of over 9000 in this state.

FFW and the redheaded chick reincarnate throughout eternity in their romantic love cycle.

Floating cities and mechs (zomg awesome!)

Soylent Green is people!

Organizations that exist simply to control and exploit the greater portion of the planet's populace.

Nanobot girls.

They've got a Cain, Abel and Lillith thing going on in there as well...

So look, sure, you love this excremental game. I'm happy for you. I too, sometimes like games other people think are shitty. What is it about the plot that makes you think it's deep? It's a large, sprawling plot so that can seem impressive... and also make it hard to isolate any particular thing, but go on and try. If you can, try and find a spot that isn't rehashed from something else. Much of the plot doesn't strike me as "original" in the sense that it's something combined in a new and interesting way, it's more like, "Lots of stuff we like + Glommed into ball = AWESOME!"

Hell, FFW is a Marty Stu mishmash of Aleksandr Kerensky (of Battletech fame), Luke Skywalker, Bruce Lee and possibly Jesus. How could they go wrong with such an everyman character?

:retarded:
 

Raghar

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
22,506
DriacKin said:
So, that being said, what about Xenogears? Is it as good as Dicksmoker claims? Is it shit? And If so, is it atleast shit in a somewhat entertaining way?

The main character is a martial artist, thus you'd see him beating up animals, soldiers, mecha with his hands. Graphics isn't great, but it's something like a prequel to the Xenosaga.

Why don't you try to play it? If you manage about 2 hours until first mecha battle, you'd see two nice scenes and you'd know if you'd like to play it or not.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
It's the typical JRPG: The setting is rather schizophrenic, with the creators unable to decide whether it's a fantasy, a contemporary, or a futuristic setting, so they make it all 3 in a disjointed, taped-together fashion. The game has the distinct feel that the creators ran short on time and funding in the second half of the game, which devolves into a collection of random namedrops from Western mythology. The Japs love doing that. It guess it makes the game seem more mysterious from the perspective of an audience who has no familiarity with any of this stuff, but to western audiences, it is clear that this is a disjointed series of namedrops that have no real relevance or connection to the source material. The soundtrack isn't bad. All in all, there are worse. But it's still the typical JRPG fare, for whatever that's worth to you.
 

cruel

Cipher
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
857
I heard some good things about this game, so started playing it (playing on PS Vita). The game has some charm, maybe didn't age that well, but one thing drives me nuts - for the first 45min of playing, 35min is spent on battling trashmobs in constant random encounters. Is whole game like this? If yes, I will just dump it right now.
 

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