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KickStarter Xenonauts 2

Discussion in 'Tactical Gaming' started by Tzaero, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. Endemic Arcane

    Endemic
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    I'd rather the effort going into the Atlas base went into making a spherical geoscape instead. There's no real reason to downgrade the capabilities of secondary bases either (I wouldn't mind if they cost more instead).
     
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  2. Galdred Studio Draconis Patron Developer

    Galdred
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    Actually, I agree that having the ability to build several bases adds to the simulation aspect. That said, there are several examples of organizations with a single base of operation:
    It is implied that the fall of Camelot and the destruction of the round table would be a big deal in Arthurian legends.
    The Teutonic knights had a lot of fortresses, but they got KOed when their main base of operation was taken (but it was a direct consequence of losing their A and B-teams in a prior engagenement).
    So you can probably find a compelling reason for the main base to be unique.
     
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  3. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

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    NuXCOM2 has a single base, but their base is mobile.
     
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  4. Bigg Boss Prophet

    Bigg Boss
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    I tried to play NuXcom after playing OpenXcom, and it's really hard to get into now. Almost like I evolved into a more superior being. I know I like running out of bullets in old X-Com. I am a masochist like that.

    Hey! If we give you more money will you go ahead and do the multiple base thing anyway? Nah, we will mod it in. Carry on.
     
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  5. ArchAngel Arcane

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    Ok if fun is your goal then deciding on positions, planning and seeing your bases grow around the world is way more fun than making one and placing liaisons and interceptors into continents. Your ant hill base system is cool but let players find such bases in other places as well and be able to get them running as well. They don't even need to be all of same size. It could be a choice kind of system where players could make decisions between putting money into a bigger secondary base early that costs more to maintain of make smaller ones first and expand to bigger ones later.
     
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  6. Haba Harbinger of Decline Patron

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    The whole base issue is kind of tricky.

    If there are multiple bases, there should be a significant risk of losing them. But then you'd have to design your game around that. Base losses should be recoverable and building bases and managing staff should be simple, not tedious.

    But in the end, only a small minority would suffer through a base loss, most would simply reload their game.

    On the other hand, most players tend to heavily invest into a single base (design and resource wise). So if you make the lives of base-splitters easier, you end up reducing the fun for those that like to play Sims with their "megabase".

    Now, if you only have one massive base, that base might never be exposed to any risk. Your game becomes making sure aliens never figure out where you are coming from. Realistic, once your base is exposed, it should be under constant attack (and basically force a game over). Which is again, not much fun.

    What I would try:

    - expose the main base to different kinds of threats. Think Lobotomy Corporation. You have managed to contain an unknown alien. Before you can manage to figure out what kind abilities it has, maybe it can escape or influence your base. Works really well in a single campaign, but repetitiveness becomes an issue. Basically have base missions and events that don't stem from full blown alien attack (and without revealing the location to aliens)

    - make satellite locations necessary for specific purposes. Maybe some facilities need to be built at specific locations, maybe some research needs to be done outside of the main base. Maybe the first crashed large UFO need to have a research facility built around it (one which the aliens will try to actively destroy before you finish the site). This way you can diversify the base building and still let the players try figure out clever defensive strategies, while keeping the main base as the priority for normal base building.

    - put a bit more emphasis on your key scientists and engineers. If they have to occasionally leave the safety of the main base to do research at satellites, that'd give opportunities for new mission types. Could your support staff get injured? Tired? Go insane under the pressure (of you pushing the research intensity slider to max)? Maybe to simplify it, limit it to having generic staff and then appointed specialists/department heads that become requirements for unlocking certain tech trees.

    - if you can't have more than one real base, that one base must have something special to it. Some layer to build upon / explore, and preferably one that can carry through several playthroughs.

    But yeah, not a simple thing to balance. Definitely plenty of opportunities there. Opportunities to do interesting things and opportunities to go all X-Com Apocalypse.
     
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  7. ArchAngel Arcane

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    Now this is more like what one would expect from a game that has #2 in its name. These are all nice ideas, especially the one about needing to make research bases around crashed UFOs.
     
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  8. norolim Cipher

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    I always build the main and secondary base rather quickly to increase interception chance. I have one full team in each base to be able to act simultaneously and gather resources faster. Then, I build additional small bases for radars, interceptors and potentially research/production, if I need more space. They usually have a small defensive force stationed there. It's more fun this way.
     
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  9. Goldhawk Goldhawk Interactive Developer

    Goldhawk
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    Yeah, there's a number of ways you can play out having a multiple base or a single base, but that's a much larger discussion to be honest. I was mostly interested in an informal poll of what people did with their bases and why, and it's been helpful to hear how people use them.
     
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  10. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    I will add that being able to respond simultaneous UFO threats was part of the strategic challenge.

    That's why the way that Firaxis XCOM handled mission generation was so aggravating.
     
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  11. Haba Harbinger of Decline Patron

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    Personally I usually have second base with Inteceptors and b-team and few satellite bases for just radar cover (and more interceptors later). If the game is going well, the B-team tends to get sidelined. Usually if things escalate to the level where I need to rely on the B-team, the game is most probably lost anyway.

    Having to micro manage multiple interceptors is already bad enough, so for me the micro for third team (or fully functional base) is a bit too much.
     
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  12. Goldhawk Goldhawk Interactive Developer

    Goldhawk
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    Yeah, you've got a similar playstyle to my own then. The key point for me is really that the X1 system allows people to make bare-bones interceptor bases if they can't be bothered to micromanage multiple bases, but it means that people that DO want to build a sprawling organisation can do it. I've been surprised by the sheer number of people who do like to do that sort of thing (not just on this forum) so I need to take a second look at the issue and see if there's a way of giving them what they want whilst also doing what I want.

    I've seen a few people say things to this effect earlier in the post too, so would you (or others) mind explain a little further with regards to the whole two teams thing? In base X-Com the Skyranger had global range and soldiers didn't have fatigue, right? Was there actually anything having 15 soldiers at two bases could do better than having 30 soldiers in one base, other than provide a defensive garrison at the second base? I'm assuming you fight every UFO crash site mission you generate in this setup?

    Yup, that just entails building multiple interceptor bases though, right? Or do you mean something else?
     
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  13. ArchAngel Arcane

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    Skyranger was slow and missions could expire (most noticeable with Terror missions). Flying all the way somewhere and all the way back took too long. Time you waited also was not time soldiers spent healing, training for PSI or your researchers studying new items.

    Also with closer base you could control more easily if it would be a day or night mission (this was less important in Open Xcom as you could give new orders to craft during flight and could kind of wait for day again).
     
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  14. norolim Cipher

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    Yes, I fight every mission, cause more missions equals more resources. In X-Com it was possible to accumulate enough resources, like elerium and alloys, to be able to sell some without the fear of running out when needed for research or production. But in order to do that, you needed high interception rate and you needed to act on all missions (some could expire).

    You could of course have 30 soldiers in one base, but you still normally had one Skyranger (hangars take a lot of space). And if you got soldiers killed or wounded during one mission, you would have to return to base, take new troops and restock before going back. That's very time consuming. So, with at least a couple of bases with active mobile teams, you can tackle multiple missions at the same time. I found this approach more efficient, but I didn't really make in-depth analyses. I just preferred this approach. And of course the Skayranger team in every base doubled as a defensive force.
     
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  15. Haba Harbinger of Decline Patron

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    I think the absolute best quality of life feature in X1 was the fact that you could nuke downed UFOs from the orbit. Not having to fight every battle was such a godsend.
     
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  16. Jaedar Arcane Patron

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    For multiple bases:
    Never really did it in ufo defense or X1 except as a fun diversion, there's never really a reason to have a B-team (mostly they just steal xp and resources).

    I remember it being good in Apocalypse though, because your bases had limited slots for the larger facilities. And if you didn't keep hoverbikes constantly on vigil, having more tubes to launch interceptors (and proximity) was very good too.

    The idea of "building a base over downed alien craft" seems really cool to me. Although it works just as well to justify multiple bases (one for every ship type you want to dissect thoroughly) or just one (a downed ufo recovered before the game began).

    It was, but at the same time it was a trap: Nuking lategame craft would mean losing more than half of the cash in them.
     
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  17. Taka-Haradin puolipeikko Prestigious Gentleman Arcane Patron

    Taka-Haradin puolipeikko
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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
    I've found that it is good to have second base that could deploy b-team. Interceptors can't do anything to landed UFO's, there's change that terror ship manages sneak into its destination while A-team is unavailable and besides it is easier to avoid night missions when you have secondary base situated on different part of the globe.
     
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  18. The Brazilian Slaughter Arcane

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    Having a B team is great because eventually you will have enough downed and landed UFOs around, to the point you can't do all these missions without the b-team .

    Also, in case the primary base is destroyed, you still have a proper chain of command with officers to keep the morale, rather than reverting your teams to easily-scared rookies that can't shoot for shit.
     
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  19. MadMaxHellfire Arcane

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    xenonauts doesn't really need a b team because of the bombard system and because teams are limited in numbers. you can manage plenty teams from your main base. in both xenonauts and x-com i built multiple bases, mainly just for air superiority and sometimes to have spare hangars and workshops ready to build more planes because there wasn't enough space on only one base. i'd gladly settle for base rooms too big to properly all fit in a single base, which alone would rapidly evolve in a larper heaven "i'll specialize these bases even if it's not really necessary".
    my point of balance would be: let aliens fully invade bases and take them but don't let them raze the bases. instead, clearly state that the base can and will be retaken. once retaken, give it a cooldown to become operative again, justify it with restocking or repairing because the aliens were still dismantling and repurposing. still too punishing? "commander, we found these alien tools into the base! [add new research/help already existing research]. damn, i would bait the aliens onto taking this small, isolated base only for the chance to strike back again and again.
    exploitative? make alien defenses and tools finding chance proportionate with number of rooms. game in a game, people would start planning bases not only on how easy they're to defend but also how they want to infiltrate back into them.
     
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  20. Iluvcheezcake Savant

    Iluvcheezcake
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    Usually played with a primary base + radar & interceptor satellite bases. Never kinda had a B team
     
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  21. ArchAngel Arcane

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    On what difficulty?
    Did you save scum?
     
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  22. Iluvcheezcake Savant

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    I always play on the highest difficulty, i usually do not save scum but i do reload if i lose a base
     
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  23. ArchAngel Arcane

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    Well that explains why you never needed another base :D

    I think it is fairly important that people say on what difficulty they are playing and if they savescum before sharing how they play. Both UFO and Xenonauts are not same games on easy or hard or with or without save scumming.
     
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  24. Iluvcheezcake Savant

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  25. PhantasmaNL Arcane Patron

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    PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria
    Update #6

    Jul 4 2018

    Halfway There - New Reward Tiers, Updated Portrait Editor!
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    As we reach the halfway mark of the Kickstarter we've hit £135,500 in pledges and we're quickly closing in on the MARS / Sentry Gun vehicles stretch goal at £150,000!

    If current trends continue we should hit the £150k stretch goal in about a week, and then the question becomes whether we get a late surge that will allow us to hit the Additional Modding Support at £200k and the Weather effects at £250k!

    The modding support is a stretch goal that many in the community feel very passionately about so I hope we are able to reach it - but to be clear, the game will still be moddable even if we don't. The £200k stretch goal will allow us to make modding the game a slightly less hardcore experience, which should lead to a wider variety of mods - but there's a lot of talented modders out there who I'm sure will do some great work even without the extra assistance.

    To help us on our way towards these stretch goals, we've taken a look at what we can add to the reward tiers!

    New Reward Tiers:
    Our higher tier rewards at £200 and £500 sold out in a matter of hours and left our highest remaining tier at £50. If you feel like you missed out, we will be making available another two £500 tier spots and another ten £200 tier spots in the final 48 hours of the Kickstarter.

    If you'd like to increase your pledge but don't want to go as high as £200, we're also adding two new unlimited "Sergeant-Major" reward tiers at £85 and £100 that offer players the chance to display their custom soldiers more prominently within Xenonauts-2!

    With the Geoscape Situations stretch goal having been reached, the player will sometimes now be faced with multiple-choice events on the strategy layer. At least two of these random events will revolve around individual soldiers. They haven't been written yet, but a quick example would be: "Commander, we're receiving a distress call from one of our soldiers. No idea how they made it out of CENTRAL, but they seem to be alive..."

    This would show the portrait of an experienced soldier drawn from the pool of custom soldiers of £85+ backers. The player could choose whether they wish to attempt to rescue the soldier and how they go about doing so, with the chance of triggering various negative and positive outcomes occurring if they decide to risk the rescue attempt.

    The final events will probably be a bit more complex than that - we're doing some concepts for them at the moment that we'll hopefully be able to share soon - but I'm sure you get the idea!

    Any custom soldier has a chance of being hired whenever a player recruits new soldiers (provided they have been named sensibly), but having your soldier appear in the Geoscape Situations will make your soldier far more likely to appear in any given game.

    This reward is available at the new £85 tier, which includes everything in previous tiers except the additional Early Access copy of Xenonauts-2. It can also be purchased at the £100 tier which does include the additional copy of the game.

    Anyone who has already backed at £200 or £500 will receive this additional reward automatically!

    Portrait Editor Update:
    The updated Portrait Editor (V3) has been released and uploaded to the same link as before, and can be downloaded here. What's new?

    • New eyewear - there's some new glasses, sunglasses and tactical goggles available for everyone
    • New facial hair - we've added "designer stubble" and "short beard" facial hair for people who found the old stubble too short and the old facial hairs too long
    • New hair - we've given the men a new short hairstyle, two new long hairstyles (including a ponytail), and about five new variants of receding and bald hairstyles
    • We will be fixing stubble going off the sides of medium / narrow faces shortly!
    This has been far more work than we were expecting, but it's done now and I'm pleased to see how much extra variation has been added as a result.

    If you have further suggestions feel free to make them in the comments below - although unfortunately scars and greying hair (which have been requested several times) are going to be difficult to do!
     
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