Yet Another Alpha Protocol Thread

[Clockwork Knight]

Is the teacher hot?

 

[MetalCraze]

Skyway strikes once again. Good job picking Alien RPG and New Vegas, the two Obsidian games NOT released, as an example of what Obsidian have released.

Did I type word "released" anywhere?
What's the difference anyway? One was a shooter and one is a shooter. I think the fact that the only games Obsidian makes now are shooters alone speaks much about them.

MotB and SOZ? Sorry, don't exist.

MotB was 3 years ago and SOZ is the worst Obsidian's game so far. It's a fucking fanmod of a bad quality sold for a price of an addon.

And I'd love to see you argue that MotB and SOZ aren't RPGs.

Why would I? They are. But Obsidian doesn't do anything like that anymore and won't do.

SHOOTER IS NOT A GENRE IN AND OF ITSELF

Shooter is a genre in and of itself, sorry. And was for 30 years now.

 

[Jaedar]

And I'd love to see you argue that MotB and SOZ aren't RPGs.
Why would I? They are. But Obsidian doesn't do anything like that anymore and won't do.

How the hell would you know that? Sawyer has even said on his formspring that he'd like to make an isometric turn based game with obsidian provided a publisher is willing.

They even have an unannounced project according to wikipedia, though it may just be the wheel of time game, but why could that not be something in the vein of Motb?

 

[Dragula]

Unless you go indie. Bioware, Bethesda, and Obsidian are the only major development studios interested in RPGs, AFAIK, and even their dedication isn't exactly rock-solid.

Especially Obsidian and Bethesda:

modern "RPG"s:

Failout 3 - a shooter
Mass Effect - a shooter
Aliens "RPG" - was a shooter
AP - a shooter
Failout 3: New Vegas - a shooter
DA - mediocre RPG.

The IQ of new members seems to be digging a huge hole now, while the ignorance is sky high

Heh, troll.

 

[SuicideBunny]

SHOOTER IS NOT A GENRE IN AND OF ITSELF

Shooter is a genre in and of itself, sorry. And was for 30 years now.

debatable. back when there were only shooting gallery games and shoot'em ups, it wasn't. just because the "modern gamer" crowd likes to put those two together under one genre doesn't mean squat.

 

[Sceptic]

debatable. back when there were only shooting gallery games and shoot'em ups, it wasn't. just because the "modern gamer" crowd likes to put those two together under one genre doesn't mean squat.

Not to mention that when Wolf3D appeared it started its own sub-genre of shooters and that genre (FPS) became quite distinct from both shooting galleries and shoot'em ups.

 

[KalosKagathos]

They even have an unannounced project according to wikipedia, though it may just be the wheel of time game, but why could that not be something in the vein of Motb?

1. It's probably not the Wheel of Time game because Obsidian only does what it does best on that project: coding, scripting and implementing content, instead of design.
2. I recall reading in an interview or on the official forums that the unannounced project has MotB design team (Ziets and Saunders) working on it.

 

[1eyedking]

Why is no one laughing at my witty remarks, lately?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Witty remarks.

What witty remarks?

 

[roll-a-die]

SHOOTER IS NOT A GENRE IN AND OF ITSELF

Shooter is a genre in and of itself, sorry. And was for 30 years now.

Really now, but what kind of shooter are they? Moreover, how do they fit that classification, more than the RPG classification? Let's look at some RPG features, then let's look at some shooter features.


Bare minimum "RPG Features"
-Classes, generally, but not always. See Fallout and Arcanum for exceptions, compare to BG2 and M&M for the contrasting of the genre.
-Stats and skills of some sort, generally so you have something to spend EXP on. This is pretty much the only universal attribute.
-Character progression through experiences, compare Fallout to The Elder Scrolls for ways in which this can be done. See also, Mass Effect 2 for a more modern take on both systems.
-Stats and Skills affecting gameplay.
- Actions that can be preformed by toggling or raising various abilities.

Let's see some shooter features.
-You Shootz And Contro! Gun.


Now let's see how many AP matches up with.
RPG
1. yes
2. yes
3. yes
4. yes
5. yes
Shooter
1. Yes

Hmm seems because RPG has a better definition to come out on top.

Let's see Fallout 3
RPG
1. yes
2. yes
3. yes
4. yes
5. no EDITFIX oh wait repair. It's a yes then.
Shooter
1. yes
Once again judging by the text book depiction of an RPG, it is an RPG more than it is a shooter.

Now for Mass Effect,
RPG
1. yes
2. yes
3. yes
4. Trivially but still, yes
5. yes
Shooter
1. Yes

Seems like more of an RPG to me, when you quantify gameplay characteristics.

Now for dragon age
RPG
1. yes
2. yes
3. yes
4. yes
5. yes
Shooter
1. no
It's an RPG.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Super Mario Sunshine is a shooter because you shoot and control the watergun. :D

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Why is no one laughing at my witty remarks, lately?

We never laugh at your remarks, just at you. I...I thought you knew that... OH god I feel horrible now

And I'd love to see you argue that MotB and SOZ aren't RPGs.
Why would I? They are. But Obsidian doesn't do anything like that anymore and won't do.

How the hell would you know that?

Probably the same way he knows Malk and Nosferatu are fun clans to play with, without ever touching them, or that Desu Ex is a gud gaem, without playing it.

Someone told him, and he's regurgitating it with added bile.

 

[King Crispy]

I'm struggling with the urge to buy this thing off D2D tonight myself.

Someone slap me with a wet dong to bring me back to my senses.

 

[Dragula]

Just buy it already, money well spent. Might even pay their salaries so they can release a god damn patch.

 

[roll-a-die]

Super Mario Sunshine is a shooter because you shoot and control the watergun. :D

That's exactly the point I was trying to make to skyway. It's a not a true genre, but a style of controlling gameplay. Is Super Mario Sunshine a shooter because it has shooting mechanics, no. It's a platformer with a few exceptions. Are TOEE or BG RTS's because of how you move your units? Or are they an RPG with a fairly standard movement system? Are TOEE or M&M just final fantasy with a reskin because of the turn based system? No, definitely not, but the comparison is raised.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I imagine he follows the "looks like a duck, walks like a duck, it's a duck" reasoning.

 

[SuicideBunny]

toee isn't real time combat-wise, so it can't be rts, but bg and the likes actually qualify as the tactical squad sub-genre of rts. it has all the necessary elements to define it as one, i think, and toee can be classified as a tactical wargame instead of rpg.
iirc it was quite en vogue a couple years ago to call bg-likes tactical squad games and not rpgs here.

if you want to be technical, all shoot'em ups that have money mechanics more or less qualify as rpgs, since money in shoot'em ups is synonymous with xp in what you normally consider an rpg, and you get to upgrade your ships, which happens to be your character, statistics with it. not only that but they are way ahead of rpgs in terms of stats as they actually allow you to swap out equipment and thus feature mechanics for forgetting skills/stats, which is both realistic and something entirely missing from rpgs with their "omgmoarpowah" mentality. fuck, even ultima online had that.

but who cares, genre definitions are more along lines of similarity and expectations than actual hard criteria.

 

[roll-a-die]

toee isn't real time combat-wise, so it can't be rts, but bg and the likes actually qualify as the tactical squad sub-genre of rts. it has all the necessary elements to define it as one, i think, and toee can be classified as a tactical wargame instead of rpg.
iirc it was quite en vogue a couple years ago to call bg-likes tactical squad games and not rpgs here.

Quite, but I was more talking the non combat movement and selection. Even in combat you generally controlled your characters with RTS like movement, it was just restricted.

if you want to be technical, all shoot'em ups that have money mechanics more or less qualify as rpgs, since money in shoot'em ups is synonymous with xp in what you normally consider an rpg, and you get to upgrade your ships, which happens to be your character, statistics with it. not only that but they are way ahead of rpgs in terms of stats as they actually allow you to swap out equipment and thus feature mechanics for forgetting skills/stats, which is both realistic and something entirely missing from rpgs with their "omgmoarpowah" mentality. fuck, even ultima online had that.

but who cares, genre definitions are more along lines of similarity and expectations than actual hard criteria.

That's just the thing the actual RPG genre when you get quite down to it, is quite diverse. And indeed blurs the lines at all times. Deus Ex, RPG or pure FPS, VtM:B, same thing, Mass Effect, Atypical ARPG, or purely TPS. I would argue that both TPS and FPS are not genre's in and of themselves, but are really methods of gameplay, not truly a genre in anymore sense than an inventory is.

 

[SuicideBunny]

categorizing it as rts due to some interface similarities is too far to even classify as a far stretch, dood. i could just as well call it interactive yaoi porn graphical novel because you happen to select your answer with the mouse clicking on a certain response in dialogues.

yeah, "diverse" is one way to call it, the other being "lacking identity", which is why the lines blur as well as why debates on what defines an rpg never get anywhere.
the pnp rpg has a pretty clear identity that separates it from its board wargame roots, but nearly all the elements that help underline the distinction between those two also happen to be elements that cannot be transfered to the computerized rpg, which furthermore is stuck way earlier on its evolutionary path than its pnp compatriot resulting in an overall weak presence as its own distinct genre.

anyhoo, yeah, you could argue that about fps and tps, but arguing about it doesn't make it right. genre distinctions are in most cases distinctions of gameplay (shoot'em up, beat'em up, match rhythm game, jump'n run, puzzle, and tps and fps, ignoring the fact that those are the only ones that add a presentation requirement, although it could be argued that they solely do so in order to distinguish them from shoot'em ups) not of game elements. what stands out is rpg trying to define itself not so much over general gameplay further narrowed in its sub-genres but rather some really restrictive forms the gameplay is presented in, actual gameplay elements, or even worse semantics it must implement for its mechanics.

 

[Jaesun]

Just a FYI, the Baldur's Gate engine Originally was a SPACE RTS GAME. Interplay suggested they make it fit the D&D rule-set and setting and... the rest is history.

Carry on.

 

[SuicideBunny]

so? substitute goldbox for bg and it is still accurate, 'cept now it's tactical squad sub-genre of tbs.

 

[kingcomrade]

yet more popamole shit

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS FACSE IT YOU GOTTA HATE A FEW GAMES HEWRE AND THERE FOR INTERNET CRED IF SOME FAG TRIES SOME FAGGY LOGICAL ARGUMENT SHIT YOU JUST PUST HEY CONSOLETARTD ENJOY YOUR XBAWKS FAG THAT WILL TOTALLY SHOW THEM HOW STUPID THEY ARE

 

[Jaesun]

BROS FACSE IT YOU GOTTA HATE A FEW GAMES HEWRE AND THERE FOR INTERNET CRED IF SOME FAG TRIES SOME FAGGY LOGICAL ARGUMENT SHIT YOU JUST PUST HEY CONSOLETARTD ENJOY YOUR XBAWKS FAG THAT WILL TOTALLY SHOW THEM HOW STUPID THEY ARE

YOU ARE A TREU BRO AND A PROPHET BRO.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Hmm. $46 at Amazon. I'll wait a few weeks.