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Yet Another Morrowind Thread

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,662
Interdasting.

1, 2 and 5 generally look :obviously: (so no harm pushing your eyecandy up to 5, unless you're sucker for complete vanilla look).
3 and 4 are way dark, apparently shaders in 5 compensate for that.
6 is pretty consistently the :retarded: setting although it fares a bit better in interiors.

These pictures make the 6th picture look pretty bad. I was honestly surprised by that, but then again there's also the old adage "if you want to look prettier, hang around with people uglier than you". Here it works backwards: if you want to look uglier, hang around with pictures that are prettier than you.

What the 6th pictures have over the others is, IMO, the brightness of the sky. Our human eyes underrate just how bright skies can be on a clear/barely cloudy day at noon. One could technically fix the 6th pictures fairly retarded saturation, gamma and luminosity, but at that point it's simply better to use Apel's Gamma Correction shader on the 5th pictures to tweak them to your liking, as IMO the 6th pictures have some very ugly flaws when it comes to the lighting itself. Look at how it changes from one picture to another in Socucius Ergalla's picture: until the fourth picture included (which used standard MGE XE shaders), lighting consistently looks one way, and shaders only intensifies that lighting; by comparison, the last picture changes plenty of things, and I can assure you this can have some very bad results in dungeons with limited lighting.
 
Self-Ejected

RNGsus

Self-Ejected
Joined
Apr 29, 2011
Messages
8,106
Who remembers that Sixth House cave with the god-sized rib cage for a tunnel? https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/46096?tab=description

That mod adds a backstory for it, because there wasn't one. In 15 years, none was ever given, though I asked whenever I got the chance. Rule of cool, I guess. I just chalked the fossil up to fallen gods, possibly Kamal snow demons or Atmoran kings.

Anyhow, from the comments the story is reminiscent of System Shock 2. Melchior Dahrk is one of the modders, so it must be decent. I'll have to try it some time, when I get around to the latest TR build.
 

Molina

Savant
Joined
Apr 27, 2018
Messages
363
I'm trying Tamriel Rebuild, Rebirth, MGSO and LGNPC...
It's totally a new game and this mod give me a new feeling of discovery.
 

abnaxus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Messages
10,850
Location
Fiernes
D2s5aeIWkAAIz7H.png:large
 

cretin

Arcane
Douchebag!
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Messages
1,372
trying to play morrowind in 2019 just sucks. Some great games age well - jagged alliance 2 for example, is playable to this day with or without mods. Morrowind is not one of those games. the codex has always had a bit of a toffee nosed attitude towards graphicsfaggotry, and in many cases its the right attitude, but in games like TES series, a good portion of what makes the experience is the visual and immersive experience of exploring. Without that component, you've got shit gameplay and increasingly questionable writing and quest design as the series goes on.

Trying to modernize morrowind is a painful task, and its painful primarily because of the neurotic, narcissistic and nebulous practices of the modding "community". I honestly think some of these dorks enjoy the endless slave like busywork that goes into modding these games with over 6 different tools they insist you need to resolve problems that are CAUSED by their incessant need to be "recognized" (you're a fucking modder, not an artist so just shut the fuck up and deal with sucking in life) and thus endless amounts of compatibility patching and organizing to get shit working in a seamless fashion. This is the very reason there exists extremely few installers for any modding effort in any of the TES games - modders with their bloated egos won't allow their work to be packaged with other's work. While I'm sure there are plenty of the sad creatures in the "community" that love nothing more than spending entire weekends with interacting with GUIs and ctrl + v, (in fact very few of these people actually seem to ever PLAY the game) for normal people its a fucking exhausting depressing mess. The dorks writing "guides" also assume that you've wasted as many years of your life as they have learning how to mod morrowind and just know how to do everything, so even if you follow the guide to the T, of fucking course theres problems at the end, because how could there not be? Thanks redditard #450! thanks for wasting my fucking time

whatever, in the end I decided my memories of playing morrowind on a shitty hand me down laptop way back when were probably infinitely better than anything i could squeeze out of frankenstein morrowind in 2019.
 

pomenitul

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
979
Location
μεταβολή
So for my first playthrough, I blindly decided to go for a pure mage (Breton, under the sign of the Apprentice) because it's my preferred play style. I'm at a point where my appreciation of the game is severely marred by how stupidly tedious magic-oriented builds appear to be in Morrowind. I've created my own spells, trying to balance out DPS and magicka requirements, and they are quite powerful indeed, yet I'm still routinely forced to rest spam just to finish most dungeons. I'm level 13 or so and have already picked up some quality gear along the way (including the cuirass of the saviour's hide), so I think I should be able to deal with Daedras and the like, but it's an uphill battle every time, one that would no doubt be easily winnable with a melee-oriented character.

Maybe you sperg lords can help me turn this into a more pleasant experience without resorting to exploits.

1. How do I conveniently level my alchemy skills? I need more restore magicka potions.
2. What's the best way to bypass magicka resistant enemies as a pure mage? Regular conjuration doesn't quite cut it so far.
3. By the same token, how do I defeat enemies that reflect magical damage?
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
33,150
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
trying to play morrowind in 2019 just sucks. Some great games age well - jagged alliance 2 for example, is playable to this day with or without mods. Morrowind is not one of those games. the codex has always had a bit of a toffee nosed attitude towards graphicsfaggotry, and in many cases its the right attitude, but in games like TES series, a good portion of what makes the experience is the visual and immersive experience of exploring. Without that component, you've got shit gameplay and increasingly questionable writing and quest design as the series goes on.

It's a good thing, then, that Morrowind's art design is timeless and the landscapes and architecture of Vvardenfell still look good, better even than Oblivion's and Skyrim's, because of how great the art design is.
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
Morrowind still looks good to me. The art style is distinct and well-executed. Then again I don't understand folks who can't play it or a Gothic 1/2 level of graphics anymore. Those games still look charming!
 

pomenitul

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Messages
979
Location
μεταβολή
They look good through the mind's eye because the design behind them is aesthetically sound, but they do suffer from the era's technical limitations. As it stands, they are far more interesting than Oblivion's default gamma saturation or Skyrim's Scando blandness, but let's not kid ourselves: 'timeless' is an over-the-top descriptor.
 

Deleted Member 16721

Guest
No, I think timeless fits it very well actually. Technical limitations do not equal ugly to me, and the graphics from that era are still pretty if you use your imagination, which some people have forgotten how to do. I recently replayed Morrowind and Gothic 1/2 and they still are graphically charming.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
So for my first playthrough, I blindly decided to go for a pure mage (Breton, under the sign of the Apprentice) because it's my preferred play style. I'm at a point where my appreciation of the game is severely marred by how stupidly tedious magic-oriented builds appear to be in Morrowind. I've created my own spells, trying to balance out DPS and magicka requirements, and they are quite powerful indeed, yet I'm still routinely forced to rest spam just to finish most dungeons. I'm level 13 or so and have already picked up some quality gear along the way (including the cuirass of the saviour's hide), so I think I should be able to deal with Daedras and the like, but it's an uphill battle every time, one that would no doubt be easily winnable with a melee-oriented character.

Maybe you sperg lords can help me turn this into a more pleasant experience without resorting to exploits.

1. How do I conveniently level my alchemy skills? I need more restore magicka potions.
2. What's the best way to bypass magicka resistant enemies as a pure mage? Regular conjuration doesn't quite cut it so far.
3. By the same token, how do I defeat enemies that reflect magical damage?

Morrowind pure mage is a very tricky early game. I don't even think it was made with that in mind, all the Bethesda games expect you to be a jack-of-all-trades to some extent. However once you game it a little bit you should be very powerful. Remember that training is the a-#1 best way to get powerful quickly, so you just need to find a good money source and head to the Telvani and train your ass up.
 

abnaxus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Messages
10,850
Location
Fiernes
90% of the time pure mage should just be flying around invisible/cloaked. Or otherwise use amulet with Charm/command spell. It's hilarious conversing with Ascended sleepers and the like.

IF you really need to kill use some Drain Health X points for 1 sec spell or Absorb Health ring enchanted up the wazoo.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
11,908
They look good through the mind's eye because the design behind them is aesthetically sound, but they do suffer from the era's technical limitations. As it stands, they are far more interesting than Oblivion's default gamma saturation or Skyrim's Scando blandness, but let's not kid ourselves: 'timeless' is an over-the-top descriptor.
You are correct that Morrowind's graphics have suffered from the same aging that affects all 3D graphics. though Morrowind's graphics have aged less than would be expected, due to its strong aesthetics. However, the aptly-named "cretin" is incorrect in his assertion that upgrading Morrowind's graphics is an arduous task. The Morrowind Graphics Overhaul (MGSO) alone is sufficient to comprehensively improve Morrowind's graphics, while remaining faithful to its original aesthetics, and at most a few small supplemental mods are required to fix various minor issues.

oDJOyhY.jpg


QOKmBhg.jpg


Z6ebE1l.jpg


O3JMtoc.jpg
 
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Turjan

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
5,047
The Morrowind Graphics Overhaul (MGSO) alone is sufficient to comprehensively improve Morrowind's graphics, while remaining faithful to its original aesthetics, and at most a few small supplemental mods are required to fix various minor issues.

yCGtxtH.jpg

This image is the perfect example for what passes as "high-res texture improvement" in the modding community. I often ask myself whether people have some kind of eye damage.

I take the original textures over anything like that every day.

Edit: I think Konjad illustrated this nicely elsewhere:

axTj5wxna-e3p1Ko38Mb4nRibXGCMX6SBStqvCRHtEQ.png
 
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Funposter

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,779
Location
Australia
The Morrowind Graphics Overhaul (MGSO) alone is sufficient to comprehensively improve Morrowind's graphics, while remaining faithful to its original aesthetics, and at most a few small supplemental mods are required to fix various minor issues.

yCGtxtH.jpg

This image is the perfect example for what passes as "high-res texture improvement" in the modding community. I often ask myself whether people have some kind of eye damage.

I take the original textures over anything like that every day.

Edit: I think Konjad illustrated this nicely elsewhere:

axTj5wxna-e3p1Ko38Mb4nRibXGCMX6SBStqvCRHtEQ.png

It's possible to avoid this (mostly), but you need to be selective in which texture packs you mix and match from. Architecture is mostly fine because you can just grab Tyddy's Arkitektora series of textures (even featuring a retexture for Necrom in Tamriel Rebuilt), or Aesthesia which are nice updates to the vanilla textures without straying too far from the style. They are high enough definition to create a notable improvement, but not so distinct that they cause issues with tiling. This is what the same spot looks like in my version of the game, running STEP shaders etc. etc. (ignore the lack of anti-aliasing):

p4OrRoH.jpg


So architecture is mostly covered, and actually works perfectly fine. Texture tiling mostly becomes noticeable when you move into landscape retextures, none of which are optimal, although Vanilla Land works the best out of the box, as it tries to stick to the style/colour scheme of the original textures while introducing 2K phototexture stuff. The problem is often that modders seemingly don't actually look at how their textures work in-game. If you walk from Balmora to Moonmoth Legion Fort, you can see this on display in an amazing way. Tyddy's old retexture from 2013-2015 (2K with some 4K extras) is literally missing textures for "rocky scrub", and changes the colour of all rocks in the West Gash region. This means that portions of the landscape which blended seamlessly in vanilla, now have significant and obvious clashes in colour and texture. Lougian's Landscape Retexture 2K is at least not missing textures, but it also has the problem of clashing colours, conspicuous tiling in textures, and an overall feeling that "surely he doesn't ACTUALLY play the game with these".

This is what the area outside of Balmora looks like in vanilla (well, these are those ESGRAN upscaled textures, but it still proves my point):

6l0ZitC.jpg


There's three main textures on display here: tx_wg_rockydirt is the brown speckled part of the landscape, tx_rockyscrub is the green bits with some grey mixed in, and tx_rock_grey is the...rocks. They're distinct from one another, but blend well enough. Here's the nightmare that most people encounter when they install a texture pack:

o8jdQmf.jpg


Viewing these texture in ImageGlass without any context, they look really nice. The problem is that in the actual game, they look wildly different to one another and do not blend seamlessly, and because of the higher resolution and detail of tx_rockyscrub, it starts to more noticeably tile. This is because it's a photo of some actual rocks with tufts of grass sticking out, and this pattern becomes very obvious when you place two of the same texture next to each other, not to mention 8 or 9, as is the case travelling north of Caldera, where the tops of small hills are nothing but this one texture. Here's the actual texture, for reference. Looks great, right? But it should be obvious why placing a bunch of these next to each other in tiles intended for 256x256 textures isn't going to work fantastically. That tuft of grass in the middle, once in game, sticks out like a sore thumb and you begin to see it everywhere.

Some highly-recommended retextures manage to fix some things while ruining others. Apel's Azura Coast and Sheogorath comes with some really nice textures and some new meshes for things like mushrooms and mucksponge in addition to it (perfect candidates for appropriate shiny normal-mapping, unlike everything else which this community demands must have it). However, it sports some pretty egregious tiling for tx_land_darkstone_02, for reasons not entirely disimilar to Lougian's tx_rockyscrub. If you travel around the east side of the map, you will find entire islands mapped using only this texture. It needs to be something less conspicuous, which Vanilla Land and Lougian's ReTex achieve by using an image with flat lighting and no vegetation. It still tiles noticeably if you don't have any groundcover/grass mods, but you really only notice it if you're levitating and have an aerial shot of the landscape, unlike Apel's where you notice it while walking around.

What's the point of Apel's retexture, then? Observe. tx_landstone_grass is also present frequently and for large areas in this region, most noticeably all along the western hill of Sadrith Mora. On the left is the texture found in Lougian's ReTex and Tyddy's, and on the right is Apel's. Vanilla Land also has a similarly rocky texture. These all tile quite badly.

SdlRYhB.jpg


Do you remember what I said about how it feels like modders don't even play the game?

So, is it possible for the intrepid Morrowind modder to un-fuck their shit? Sort of, but you'll need to play around and see what you like most. Vanilla Land is probably the best starting point, overwriting his Ashlands textures with someone's else's (I use Tyddy's) and then installing Apel's AC&S on top of that, while deleting the darkstone textures that tile the most noticeably. That's just a starting point. You'll need to play around with it and see what works in-game. Maybe you like the colour scheme of someone's Ascadian Isles grass more than the others, or maybe you think that it's less visually distracting due to the amount of noise. Maybe you're playing with HDR on and the brighter textures grow brighter than a nuclear bomb when hit by sunlight, requiring you to pick something darker. And most importantly for landscape modding - get a grass mod. Ozzy's is nice, but it might be a bit over the top and colourful for some people. Aesthesia is the same colour all over the map, which is annoying, but it also includes grass for Tamriel Rebuilt and TR Preview. I've personally used Ozzy's Merged for Vvardenfell and then I'm using Aesthesia for the mainland. It really helps to cover up that low-res orange and green ground texture outside of Old Ebonheart.

It's not perfect, and I fully expect people here to call me a gay retard who epitomises DECLINE, but if you mix and match you will eventually get something that doesn't look like complete garbage. I'm still working on my install. Some of the texture are a little too bright, and I may have a look at fixing them with a quick overlay filter etc. in Photoshop since I have the .dds plugin, but at least I can view landscapes from 30 metres away in-game without saying "Oh God", and I can still look at the ground below my feet and say, "Hey, this isn't half bad". Also those West Gash trees are definitely too bright - I keep forgetting to install the darker alt. version.

O2knZ8e.jpg


Edit: changed final screenshot to be under more similar lighting conditions, so no atmospheric scattering etc. HDR was also making things appear brighter than they were.
 
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Funposter

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,779
Location
Australia
Here's an imgur album of a few screenshots I just took running around Seyda Neen and Pelagiad. This is with all of the STEP shaders and bells and whistles such as atmospheric scattering enabled. HDR has a tendency to blow-out the image during daytime sometimes, but it usually really does bring out the colours in the game. I suppose it's similar to an ENB for Skyrim, or any other game, in that sense. 95% of the time it looks better than vanilla, but that other 5% of the time is when it doesn't play nicely with the colour of textures or the particular lighting conditions you're under.

https://imgur.com/a/Wm5tkZi

So for my first playthrough, I blindly decided to go for a pure mage (Breton, under the sign of the Apprentice) because it's my preferred play style. I'm at a point where my appreciation of the game is severely marred by how stupidly tedious magic-oriented builds appear to be in Morrowind. I've created my own spells, trying to balance out DPS and magicka requirements, and they are quite powerful indeed, yet I'm still routinely forced to rest spam just to finish most dungeons. I'm level 13 or so and have already picked up some quality gear along the way (including the cuirass of the saviour's hide), so I think I should be able to deal with Daedras and the like, but it's an uphill battle every time, one that would no doubt be easily winnable with a melee-oriented character.

Maybe you sperg lords can help me turn this into a more pleasant experience without resorting to exploits.

1. How do I conveniently level my alchemy skills? I need more restore magicka potions.
2. What's the best way to bypass magicka resistant enemies as a pure mage? Regular conjuration doesn't quite cut it so far.
3. By the same token, how do I defeat enemies that reflect magical damage?

To address your first point, you don't, really. Levelling Alchemy is very rarely something which naturally occurs, so you need to rely on buying ingredients at shops and making the same potion over and over. The benefit of this is that it usually results in you making money. There's also an MWSE plugin which allows you to brew Poisons and attach them to weapons, which might result in you more organically seeking out ingredients for specific purposes (Poison damage, Drain/Damage Speed, Paralyze etc.). For Restore Magicka Potions, you're best off just stocking up on Exclusive level potions at Nalcarya's shop in Balmora, since she has infinite stock and her Mercantile skill is quite low.

Magicka resistant enemies are only resistant to particular kinds of magic in Morrowind, unlike in OB and SK. So for instance, the Resist Magicka effect on Bretons and Orcs does not apply to all magic, only non-elemental spells like Damage/Absorb/Drain Health (or whatever else), Burden, Silence etc. It does not protect against Fire, Shock, Frost or Poison, nor does it protect against Paralyze. So playing a Mage is about figuring out which opponents resist what, and having a spell handy to deal with it.

You're basically shit out of luck when it comes to Reflect, since you can't bounce it back with your own Reflect effects, and I don't remember if your own resistances come into play either. Your best option is to spam Absorb Health, a great effect in general, since Absorb effects don't get reflected properly (you'd be absorbing your own health to give it back to yourself).
 
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