Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Zenimax wins lawsuit against Interplay.

Forgotten Friend

Educated
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
464
Location
Slain by a mudcrab
Yes and you expect that at the beginning of a story. Hey what's going on, hmm. Weird, a conundrum and stuff to do.

The point is exactly what I said before when I called it "pointless and convoluted".

I got to the end of the game then had a bunch of questions. What, irenecus is an elf? Why doesn't he look like an elf? What do the elves have to do with this? How does any of this matter to the story? Does my character look like a gnome now since I have no soul? Shouldn't irenecus look like an elf again now that he has a soul?

All these things are fine if the presentation was more subtle. What is all this irrelevant stuff thrown in my face all of a sudden like it is the big revelation I was waiting for? I was quite confused the first time I got to that point in BG 2, especially since the game is so long it's not like I really kept irenecus in my mind much.

If you have a big reveal and it turns out to just be fluff then it's bad writing. When the useless fluff is tacked on and confusing it's really bad writing. If you have every cliche in the book from a to z as if you went to tvtropes.com and went right down the list it's bad writing. When you have silly shit like illegal spellcasting as a big plot point and then facing hundreds of magic users, it's bad writing. When you then pay a nominal fee to get a license to cast spells much later and completely turn the whole thing on its head, it's atrocious writing.

BG 2 has tons of bad writing, Irenecus is a very badly written and ill thought out villain. David Gaider is a terrible writer, and probably everyone else at bioware qualifies as a bad writer as well.

And more to the point people don't play games to read writing. Irenecus is popular because irenecus is cool. You never looked at darth vader and wondered wtf he was whining about, or heard about his mom being a slave, at least not until the horrible prequels. Because it's pointless shit that has nothing to do with what's going on.

People like to explore a world, and they like to build a party or character and get loot and fight stuff. Those are the reasons people liked BG 2. People like Gaider make it out like it's all about the story, but no one ever game a shit about the story. If anything bioware has made better stories since then but the games get worse and worse, because everything else is more and more shitty.
 

attackfighter

Magister
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
2,307
If you have a big reveal and it turns out to just be fluff then it's bad writing. When the useless fluff is tacked on and confusing it's really bad writing. If you have every cliche in the book from a to z as if you went to tvtropes.com and went right down the list it's bad writing. When you have silly shit like illegal spellcasting as a big plot point and then facing hundreds of magic users, it's bad writing. When you then pay a nominal fee to get a license to cast spells much later and completely turn the whole thing on its head, it's atrocious writing.

Useless fluff? Whaaaa...The stuff about Irenicus's past is meant to give you more insight into his motivations. Just like how the journal entries in Fallout give you more insight into the Master's motivations. Not to mention it's hinted at throughout the story - maybe not very much, but the hints are at least there and they're better than the hints about the Master. Also, cliches aren't necessarily bad, in the case of BG2 I think they add to the game since it's meant to be a light hearted take on Forgotten Realms and not a super serious videogame about a guy who's supposed ally turns his back on him after he saves the world from an evil dude who actually turns out to have good intentions. Truly Fallout is the pinnacle of not having every cliche in the book.

And more to the point people don't play games to read writing. Irenecus is popular because irenecus is cool. You never looked at darth vader and wondered wtf he was whining about, or heard about his mom being a slave, at least not until the horrible prequels. Because it's pointless shit that has nothing to do with what's going on.

Well in that case:
Irenicus = cool
Master = nonsensical retard that doesn't even know his minions can't breed. Oh but wait he talks in funny voices, I guess that puts him on par with... Darth Vader.
 

attackfighter

Magister
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
2,307
The point I'm trying to make is that BG2 has good, or at least okayish, dialogue compared to Fallout. I've even said several times that I don't consider Irenicus/BG2 as some sort of masterpiece, but rather that I'm just giving it the moderate amount of praise it's due.
 

Forgotten Friend

Educated
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
464
Location
Slain by a mudcrab
If bioware wrote darth vader the epic scene with luke on the catwalk would culminate in this.

Luke. Luke. I built C3P0!

Wait, what? Seriously?

Yes!

So. Hmm. Ok, seeya.


Then you'd get to the death star and vader would give a speech about his troubled past and his mother, then the deathstar would blow up because the emperor slipped and you'd go home.

:hmmm:

See the difference between backstory and main plot, and how it's incredibly shitty storytelling to do things like that? Even journals would be better, in fact that's the most typical use of that kind of device.

My point is you like irenecus because of the presentation factor, kind of like how millenium falcon is cool just by existing and making the noise as it whizzes by. The writing itself is complete shit, and since they now focus on writing and romances completely their games are complete shit too.

In a few years they will change bioware victory to eidos victory and bioware itself to EA homofag. Then in a few more years there will be a quiet announcement that EA laid off the staff of one of its inhouse studios. And good riddance, since they are concentrating completely on story now, and they suck at it. Bioware already basically had to sell off to continue on due to taking so long to make DA and having it suck so much.

Now the master, and fallout, I don't think the dialog is that great in many cases. There's lots of dumb stuff in the original fallout. And again why it rocks is due to how cool everything is, and far cooler than irenecus. Deathclaws, supermutants, radscorpions, ghouls, all of them are pretty much iconically cool creations. The creativity is overwhelming, though I don't think the dialog is generally great, except in the way that they make the game respond to the player's actions. But the dialog doesn't have to be movie cool at every point in a game to be fun. Fallout is very fun to play and has a very interesting and cool game system, unlike every bioware game ever made except BG 2.
 

attackfighter

Magister
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
2,307
INow the master, and fallout, I don't think the dialog is that great in many cases. There's lots of dumb stuff in the original fallout. And again why it rocks is due to how cool everything is, and far cooler than irenecus. Deathclaws, supermutants, radscorpions, ghouls, all of them are pretty much iconically cool creations. The creativity is overwhelming, though I don't think the dialog is generally great, except in the way that they make the game respond to the player's actions.

Yeah this is basically what I wrote in my first post. The joys of tangents...
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom