Review KOTOR 2 trashed at Prodigious Gaming

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Obsidian Entertainment; Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords

<a href=http://www.pro-g.co.uk/review/455/>Prodigious Gaming</a> played <a href=http://www.kotor2.com>KOTOR 2</a>, but instead of sharing the orgasmic feelings which has become an industry standard these days, this fine UK site has actually posted a <a href=http://www.pro-g.co.uk/review/455/>REVIEW</a> of the game.
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<blockquote>As you would expect from the minds that brought us Planescape: Torment, the tale told is one of darkness and moral ambiguity, with choices rarely being clear cut into Light and Dark. The script is excellent, and whilst the main quests themselves lack imagination, the sub-quests don't, with shades of grey being the order of the day, as you're called upon to ally yourself with unsavoury characters to complete quests. Characterisation is strong, but fairly limited for all but the principle cast. Unlike KotOR, where each crew member had their own sub-quest, KotOR 2 revolves almost completely around the protagonist and Kreia, a mysterious Jedi who takes it upon herself to be your mentor, and who becomes the first NPC to join your party. The other characters, such as the rogue Atton and bounty hunter Mira, are interesting enough characters, but you'll quickly run out of dialogue with them after they join your crew.
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Whilst it's fairly easy to forgive the slow start, and grin and bear the technical issues because of the quality of the script; the ending is unforgivably farcical, and is perhaps the single most unrewarding conclusion to a game in recent history. The manner in which the finale is executed is nothing short of laughable.</blockquote>
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Can't argue with that
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[Volourn]

I can. The chocies ar emostly black and white. And, most of the characters are shallow. Not even close to be on the level of PST writing wise.

 

[PennyAnte]

They needed the proverbial six more months. But I still think they have a lot of great stuff in the game. I've enjoyed it, and they can be proud of it. It isn't a 9, more like an 8. But it's very good. I don't mind having spent the full $50.

I just wished I had waited for the patched PC version, like I was planning to do, instead of going Xbox.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Yeah, I'm pleased with my purchase. Just wish the endings were better.

 

[Stark]

I just bookmarked the site. the review is well written, and judging from comments in this board, pretty spot on too.

 

[NeverwinterKnight]

this review goes to the heart of my question in the general forum about whether the ending of a game is the most important aspect.

it seems that the biggest issue people have with kotor2 (other than the bugs) is the poor ending. if the ending was on par with the rest of the game, would kotor2 be considered more widely as a great game? perhaps, perhaps not. but it seems that the ending has certainly tarnished the rest of the game for a few people.

 

[Volourn]

To me, KOTOR2's ending is more a symptom of the half baked way KOTOR2 was made; not a sudden appearance of crappiness.

From balance to to the back story to some of the characters there are some great ideas; but they only half work because of some major FUBARs.

 

[Greatatlantic]

I just wished I had waited for the patched PC version, like I was planning to do, instead of going Xbox.

Was there ever a cross platform release where it was preferable to play the console version? The PC typically has more processing power, the ability to be patched, and the wonder preciscion of mouse and keyboard. Sure, consoles have plop and play, but if you already have a PC, why down grade and play the console version? Makes no sense...

 

[Vault Dweller]

Can't argue with that

I can.

I knew I could count on you, buddy.

To me, KOTOR2's ending is more a symptom of the half baked way KOTOR2 was made; not a sudden appearance of crappiness.

Unfortunately, I agree. The ending was fitting.

 

[PennyAnte]

Sure, consoles have plop and play, but if you already have a PC, why down grade and play the console version? Makes no sense...

I just got impatient and wanted it earlier. I was bored suddenly with my current game library. Also, Xbox games can often be patched.

 

[Keldryn]

Was there ever a cross platform release where it was preferable to play the console version? The PC typically has more processing power, the ability to be patched, and the wonder preciscion of mouse and keyboard. Sure, consoles have plop and play, but if you already have a PC, why down grade and play the console version? Makes no sense...

Because it's more comfortable to lean back on the couch in front of a big screen TV, holding a game controller comfortably in my hands, than to be hunched over the PC in front of a smaller monitor, one hand on the keyboard and the other on the mouse.

Because I don't have to spend more than the cost of a whole gaming console to buy a new video card that can play recent games at an acceptable speed (my GeForce2 doesn't cut it anymore).

Because there is no maintenance/patching involved. Just pop in the disc, turn on the system, and play it. (No, I'm not a computer novice. I've been building and fixing systems since I was a kid, and I've been a programmer for several years. Maybe THAT is why I like the fact that "it just works.")

Because it's more social. My girlfriend can sit with me on the couch and watch me play, or we can take turns, or she can navigate for me. Yes, multiplayer is nicer if everyone has their own screen, but unless you have a LAN set up in a room, you lose the factor of having your friend sitting beside you while you play.

I've always had game consoles, but I was a die-hard PC gamer from around 1990 onwards. In 2001, my focus and interest shifted away from PC games, and I now do the majority of my gaming on consoles. The original reason for the switch was simply because after spending 8 hours a day on the computer at work, I've developed some serious repetitive strain injuries in my arms. The keyboard/mouse setup in PC games has at times been physically painful for me to use.

I can handle the outside-of-work PC use a lot better now, but I find that PC games themselves don't interest me as much anymore. The market is overrun with FPS, RTS, and MMORPG games, none of which really interest me that much. I used to love to tweak and upgrade my system; now I just want everything to work the way it's supposed to and stop giving me grief. And I much prefer to use a gamepad.

There are only two types of control where I find the mouse works significantly better. One is the oft-cited aiming/turning in first-person games. I've gotten quite used to using the second analog stick for this, but I admit that I can't get quite the same response or accuracy as I can with a mouse. But since I don't really play that many first-person games (and the ones I do are games like Thief, Deus Ex, or Morrowind), it's not a big deal.

The other type is for RTS games, or others where you are controlling a pointer, free-form, to click on objects. However, with a well-designed interface, or a shift in paradigm, a lot of this can be avoided. And honestly, I despise the way Diablo controls on the PC. For that style of game, I much prefer direct control over my character, as in BG: Dark Alliance/Champions of Norrath/etc.

So give me my favorite PC games on a game console, and I'll be very happy.
:D

 

[Fez]

That's a bad habit you have there.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

I don't get the argument of "omg! you can play on a big teevee!" I'm happy playing on my monitor, as it's close enough say that it seems like playing on a big tv, and of course the resolution is much higher.

 

[Keldryn]

I don't get the argument of "omg! you can play on a big teevee!" I'm happy playing on my monitor, as it's close enough say that it seems like playing on a big tv, and of course the resolution is much higher.

I don't recall stating it that way. I don't get eye strain the same way that I do on the computer when I'm sitting back from the TV, on the couch. And it's not just about the "big teevee" for me, it's about not sitting upright in the computer chair, not having my face two feet from the screen, and not having to use the keyboard and mouse. I have to sit like that all day at work; it's just much more relaxing and comfortable for me play my games off of the PC. That was the point I was trying to make, not "omg! u can play on a big teevee!" Thanks for the condescending tone.

Yeah, the higher resolution is nice but the inherent "anti-aliasing" of the TV (in other words, the blurry picture compared to a monitor) helps to done down the jaggies.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to give up their PC. The question was asked "if you have a PC, why play the downgraded console version," so I figured I'd jump in and say at least one of us would rather play the console version, and my reasons why.

 

[Keldryn]

this review goes to the heart of my question in the general forum about whether the ending of a game is the most important aspect.

It certainly isn't for me. I have a bad habit of not finishing games.

I haven't played KOTOR2 yet anyway. The ending can't be any worse than, say, Eye of the Beholder.

Heck, Wasteland was one of my favorite games back in the day (C-64), and I never actually finished it. I'd set the self-destruct timer in the final base (Base Cochise?), and I took a wrong turn on the way out... the base blew up, all of my characters died, and the fantastic auto-save feature of the game saved it with the base blown up and all of my characters dead.

That was annoying, to say the least.

 

[Greatatlantic]

Thanks for the condescending tone.

Oh yes, condescending tones are this website's specialty. Anyways, you wear pants (I presume) everyday, yet you don't get tired of them (I hope). I don't necessarily see how one can tire of a mouse 'n keyboard, even if they have to use them at work. Beyond that, you have a job, so why is the expense a factor, necessarily. Plus, my comments were about the Sith Lords, which cannot be played with your girlfriend. Which brings up the interesting question, if you have a girl friend, why are you playing games at all? Shouldn't you be out, you know, meeting the parents?

 

[Keldryn]

Yeah, I noticed. Had a flashback to being on TheForce.Net for a moment...

Anyways, you wear pants (I presume) everyday, yet you don't get tired of them (I hope). I don't necessarily see how one can tire of a mouse 'n keyboard, even if they have to use them at work. Beyond that, you have a job, so why is the expense a factor, necessarily.

Not quite the same. :D It's not that I get tired of using the mouse and keyboard, it's that prolonged use of the mouse and keyboard over many years has afflicted me with repetitive strain injuries since sometime in 2000. The mouse far more so than the keyboard. It has caused physical damage to the tissues in my forearms and shoulders. There are things I do to manage it, but it hasn't gone away. So if I sit in the computer chair, using the mouse and keyboard, for extended periods, over the course of days, months, etc... I experience pain and/or numbness that persists long after I'm finished using the computer. I had to take short-term disability leave from work a few years ago because of it. I'd have days where 10 minutes after I got to work and started using the cmoputer, I was in pain.

The expense is a factor because I'm still not made of money. I have debts from school to pay off, an engagement ring to save up for, a wedding after that, she will eventually sell her townhouse that we're living in now and we'll buy a house together... I can't justify spending that much on a video card. I had a choice of getting either an Xbox or a Radeon 9600 for Christmas from my gf (both about the same price), and I went for the Xbox Crystal bundle. I couldn't justify $200 (Cdn) for a video card that still doesn't play the latest games all that well (plus AGP is a dead-end upgrade path now anyway), when I could get a whole console for the same price.

Plus, my comments were about the Sith Lords, which cannot be played with your girlfriend. Which brings up the interesting question, if you have a girl friend, why are you playing games at all? Shouldn't you be out, you know, meeting the parents?

Sure it can. Well, we often navigate for each other, although she is more prone to using strategy guides than I am. She played Legend of Dragoon, and I was her navigator. Or sometimes I'll play the game, and she'll be beside me on the couch, reading a book.

I don't spend nearly as much time playing games as I used to. I have so many games that I haven't played yet... But my girlfriend likes to play too, so I'm lucky there. And she likes to play RPGs, which is even better. But I think the best video game we played was "Strip Bust-A-Move." :shock: I won.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Because it's more comfortable to lean back on the couch in front of a big screen TV, holding a game controller comfortably in my hands, than to be hunched over the PC in front of a smaller monitor, one hand on the keyboard and the other on the mouse.

That isn't an inherent element of a console, it's inherent to who plays it, actually. I can hunch over or lean back regardless of whatever platform I'm playing. I used to hunch a lot more when playing my old consoles than playing my PC. In fact, the only time I actually hunch over when playing a PC game is when I am focusing myself on a coordenation-intensive activity in a videogame - and I do the exact same with a console videogame. Otherwise, I set myself up in small, comfortable sofas or chairs for my gaming needs, where I can lean backwards comfortably.

Just the same, comfort in handling certain platform accessories depend on the accessories design itself, there is no inherent platform superiority when it comes to that. If you're faced with choosing a rough cube with buttons vs a gamepad made with curves that adapt to your hand (much like a mouse), then you're obviously going to go with the one that's more comfortable. For instance, I find it terribly uncomfortable to handle an input method that requires both hands to be rigid and fixed on it (controller), as opposed to being able to move both arms independently (mouse and keyboard).

Because I don't have to spend more than the cost of a whole gaming console to buy a new video card that can play recent games at an acceptable speed (my GeForce2 doesn't cut it anymore).

This is true. Though, I think this may vary from case to case. A graphics card for me lasts about 5 to 7 years, for instance, not only because I tend to play older games, but also because I want to make my investment to last for a long time. And also, 5 to 7 years is roughly the same amount of time between the slow death of outdated console and the release of new-gen consoles. Between buying a new console and a new videocard, the amount of time I'd wait would be basically the same.

Because it's more social. My girlfriend can sit with me on the couch and watch me play, or we can take turns, or she can navigate for me. Yes, multiplayer is nicer if everyone has their own screen, but unless you have a LAN set up in a room, you lose the factor of having your friend sitting beside you while you play.

This isn't inherent to the platform, either. It depends on how the platform is set up. If I set up a gaming PC in the same way as I'd set up a console - ie, centered on the room, with enough space around to have people watch in and take turns to play, and use a kickass large monitor - the effect would be largely the same. Taking a clue from personal examples again, my PC is set up in a much more social way than my consoles ever were. I have enough space around me for people to take turns at a game, gather 'round and watch me play, and even invite my girlfriend to sit next to me and watch (if she cared for videogames that is, though she seemed to like the idea of that Lego Star Wars game a whole lot).

I also installed a wireless system, which means that I can install a game on all 3 computers in the house and play it with (or against) 3 people. One of the computers is a laptop, which means one of the participants can be in his or her bedroom playing, without needing to sit right next to me using something like a multi-player adapter (specially cool when one person is sick and needs to be in bed but still wants to kick some ass in an online multiplayer shooter).

This isn't to try and claim PC superiority over consoles (even if superiority exists in several layers this will largely depend on consumer preference), but some of the perceived weaknessess of a gaming PC, specially when compared to a console, seem to be largely inconclusive or dubious to me, or rather, the proverbial 'brahmin crap' :razz:

 

[Fez]

If you just slip some Rohypnol into her drinks, you can get in a few uninterrupted hours gaming on the PC. That'll save you having to get a console.

 

[Shevek]

To me, KOTOR2's ending is more a symptom of the half baked way KOTOR2 was made; not a sudden appearance of crappiness.

From balance to to the back story to some of the characters there are some great ideas; but they only half work because of some major FUBARs.

I would partially agree with this. I do not believe the game is uniformly FUBAR throughout. Instead, the game got progressively worse in its final acts. Iit started well (though it contained a few ugly plotholes) but around the time you go to save the princess or whatever, the game becomes a nonsensical mess in a hurry. The horrible ending was not sudden but part of a steep downward spiral. Needless to say, I expected more from Avellone.

 

[Volourn]

" Iit started well (though it contained a few ugly plotholes) "

You fuckin' nuts? Peragus nearly made me quit the game! That's how aweful it was!!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Peragus nearly made me quit the game!

QVITARS NEVAR WINZ!!!!

 

[Volourn]

"QVITARS NEVAR WINZ!!!!"

If beinga winner means having to suffer Peragus again, I'd rather be a loser!!

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

If you just slip some Rohypnol into her drinks, you can get in a few uninterrupted hours gaming on the PC.

More like a few hours of uninterrupted anything, though I wouldn't do that to her. If this was one of the bitches I dated some years ago, hell yes, but not this one

But Rohypnol's always good to have around, anyway :razz:

 

[Fez]

You never need an electric blanket to keep you warm at night for as long as you have a bottle of Rohypnol going spare. Keeping her drugged and quiet is the secret to any happy relationship.