Editorial Mass Effect 2 Verdict

[Freelance Henchman]

Well I think it was, in fact, deeper because of the inventory (among other things). The way I see it, it's a good thing when the player has more choices to select from. In ME1, you had a lot of options regarding weapons, mods for those weapons, armor with different stats and effects and so on. You had to put more thought into it (not much, but some), whereas in ME2 the system was reduced to a couple of weapons and almost no armor. This decision took out a layer of complexity that (I feel) was beneficial to the first game.

I still don't see how ME1's inventory was more than a "pseudo-inventory" since every weapon felt the same when shooting it anyway, apart from very minimal differences in cooldown and such (well maybe apart from that upgrade that gives 500% damage at the cost of 1 shot in succession maximum). Add to that that you could carry around 10 armors at once and it just made little sense.

I replayed ME1 just recently because I'd forgotten a lot of the story, and I was amazed how much hassle it was to deal with the tons of items you find. In contrast, in ME2 you choose between weapons that are fairly different in behavior, and the actual game was never interrupted by staring at a menu every 3 minutes and deleting items, which happened to me all the time in ME1.

There's "complexity" and there's "a goddamn hassle", and ME1 had far too much of the latter I think.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I still don't see how ME1's inventory was more than a "pseudo-inventory" since every weapon felt the same when shooting it anyway, apart from very minimal differences in cooldown and such (well maybe apart from that upgrade that gives 500% damage at the cost of 1 shot in succession maximum). Add to that that you could carry around 10 armors at once and it just made little sense.

I replayed ME1 just recently because I'd forgotten a lot of the story, and I was amazed how much hassle it was to deal with the tons of items you find. In contrast, in ME2 you choose between weapons that are fairly different in behavior, and the actual game was never interrupted by staring at a menu every 3 minutes and deleting items, which happened to me all the time in ME1.

There's "complexity" and there's "a goddamn hassle", and ME1 had far too much of the latter I think.

When I finally got a Predator M X Armor in ME1 it felt good. Massive shields, a spectre gun and you know you're equipped very well.
Where's that in ME2? If you're out in the open with enemies shooting at you you'll die in 3sec. If you have a couple of upgrades you still die in 3sec. If you have barrier you'll die in 4sec instead and with super maxed-out barrier it is 6sec. The influence of your skills &equipment on the actual gameplay are minor at best. I bet you can finish the game without ever increasing your skills. Meanwhile the enemies have such awesome barriers/shields/armor and firepower that the only reason why you can win the game at all is because they act retarded. Back in the day a dangerous enemy ie Irenicus used the same rules as the player. He was a 60HP wussie and was only dangerous because he used his abilities in a manner that made sense. Nowadays Bioware doesn't bother with such details. Just HP, shields, armor x5 and be done with it. Challenge through tedium.

 

[Freelance Henchman]

When I finally got a Predator M X Armor in ME1 it felt good. Massive shields, a spectre gun and you know you're equipped very well.
Where's that in ME2? If you're out in the open with enemies shooting at you you'll die in 3sec. If you have a couple of upgrades you still die in 3sec. If you have barrier you'll die in 4sec instead and with super maxed-out barrier it is 6sec. The influence of your skills &equipment on the actual gameplay are minor at best. I bet you can finish the game without ever increasing your skills. Meanwhile the enemies have such awesome barriers/shields/armor and firepower that the only reason why you can win the game at all is because they act retarded. Back in the day a dangerous enemy ie Irenicus used the same rules as the player. He was a 60HP wussie and was only dangerous because he used his abilities in a manner that made sense. Nowadays Bioware doesn't bother with such details. Just HP, shields, armor x5 and be done with it. Challenge through tedium.

Did equipment make that much of a difference in ME1 anyway? Enemies were even more retarded in ME1 than in ME2, and without hitboxes and such it didn't even matter where you hit enemies.

You might be able to finish ME2 without ever increasing a skill but I doubt it makes no difference at all. Playing as the Vanguard class on Insanity is quite a challenge I found, and that class really needs the cooldown bonuses and maximal weapon damage to get as much out of the biotic charge as possible. I was damn glad for even the drop from a 6 second cooldown to a 4 second cooldown, and the maxed out heavy charge also gives a short moment of "bullet time" so you can line up your shotgun better.

This might depend a lot on class though, for example Sentinel and Engineer are better to play from behind the lines I think and can work better even without maxed ability, but at least the Vanguard really can use the improved skills. For that class it also makes quite a difference what gun you choose, and the shotguns in the game are fairly different in shooting speed and main damage, dictacting how you play.

 

[Sceptic]

Did equipment make that much of a difference in ME1 anyway?

It did. Hugely. In fact it made such a difference that it relegated weapon skills to near-uselessness because the increase in accuracy and firepower you get from weakest to best weapon is several orders of magnitude higher than what you get between no skill and maxed skill.

The inventory system in ME1 was crap. Taking out in ME2 was even worse.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Well I think it was, in fact, deeper because of the inventory (among other things). The way I see it, it's a good thing when the player has more choices to select from. In ME1, you had a lot of options regarding weapons, mods for those weapons, armor with different stats and effects and so on. You had to put more thought into it (not much, but some), whereas in ME2 the system was reduced to a couple of weapons and almost no armor. This decision took out a layer of complexity that (I feel) was beneficial to the first game.

I always felt it was easy to tell which upgrades were good. Iirc, the game even puts the best loot on the top of the list. The only decision I remember is deciding between healing armor upgrade or some other armor upgrade (probably biotic protection).

 

[Volourn]

" He was a 60HP wussie "

o rly?

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

" He was a 60HP wussie "

o rly?

It was just a guess. But enlighten me, how many HP did he have? 500? 1000?

 

[Volourn]

Dunno; but it certainly was hell of a lot more than 60. LMFAO

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Dunno; but it certainly was hell of a lot more than 60. LMFAO

Jon Irenicus, level 30 mage, HP 96, THAC0 11, attacks 1; str 13, dex 18, con 14, wis 18, int 18, cha 17

Is 96 within the range normal for a lvl30 wizard with 14 CON? With max rolls maybe. 96 is more than 60. But not significantly. Does it invalidate my point?

 

[CrimsonAngel]

Dunno; but it certainly was hell of a lot more than 60. LMFAO

Jon Irenicus, level 30 mage, HP 96, THAC0 11, attacks 1; str 13, dex 18, con 14, wis 18, int 18, cha 17

Is 96 within the range normal for a lvl30 wizard with 14 CON? With max rolls maybe. 96 is more than 60. But not significantly. Does it invalidate my point?

Yes and your mother is a whore.

 

[Volourn]

"96 is more than 60"

It's 33% more. That'
s pretty significant. It seems reasonable for a level 30m mage to have however - though ity's been years since I played BG2 - that seems a low number consideirng how longer it took to slice and dice him.

Still, I'd agree that outside of few veryr are cases, enemies should follow the same rules as the players espicially if theyir of 'normal' races like the thugs of ME2 are.

 

[Sceptic]

Is 96 within the range normal for a lvl30 wizard with 14 CON? With max rolls maybe.

No it's not. 14 CON gives no HP bonus in 2E. Mages get 4 HP/level until level 9, then 1 HP afterwards. A level 30 mage would have 57 HP if all rolls are maxed. 50 is a much more reasonable number if you factor in the random dice roll.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

IIrc 14 CON gives a bonus in BG2. Anyway the point of giving him >90 HP is to not be immediately vulnerable to Power Words or Symbols that have 90HP as a threshold.
It's not so much out of range that it's a super advantage (especially compared to the HP the PC or party members have) in itself.

 

[doctor_kaz]

They went too far in dumbing this one down. THey should have at least kept in the Charm and Intimidate skills since that was a huge part of ME1. If you had a maxed out persuasion skill in Mass Effect you could talk your way out of the second to last battle. But at least the combat is better. Combat in ME1 was awful. I think it's funny that the review in the OP mentions how bad combat in ME1 was since if I go back and read their review for ME1, it will probably do nothing but gush about it.

 

[Pliskin]

They went too far in dumbing this one down. THey should have at least kept in the Charm and Intimidate skills since that was a huge part of ME1. If you had a maxed out persuasion skill in Mass Effect you could talk your way out of the second to last battle. But at least the combat is better. Combat in ME1 was awful. I think it's funny that the review in the OP mentions how bad combat in ME1 was since if I go back and read their review for ME1, it will probably do nothing but gush about it.

They did keep Charm and Intimidate: It's just that both are inexorably linked to yr Paragon and Renegade levels. See those blue / red convo choices? That's Charm and Intimidate.

 

[doctor_kaz]

They went too far in dumbing this one down. THey should have at least kept in the Charm and Intimidate skills since that was a huge part of ME1. If you had a maxed out persuasion skill in Mass Effect you could talk your way out of the second to last battle. But at least the combat is better. Combat in ME1 was awful. I think it's funny that the review in the OP mentions how bad combat in ME1 was since if I go back and read their review for ME1, it will probably do nothing but gush about it.

They did keep Charm and Intimidate: It's just that both are inexorably linked to yr Paragon and Renegade levels. See those blue / red convo choices? That's Charm and Intimidate.

Ah OK.

That's kinda stupid.

Bioware should rename every one of their bipolar morality systems to "Bioware Good" and "Bioware Evil" since every one fails to disguise that it's just the same thing with a different name each time.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

It's more like "Bioware good" and "Bioware evil mercenary doing good things anyway because he'll get money / fame"

 

[Xor]

I don't see how removing the completely useless inventory system which only served to distract from the core of the game (shooter gameplay and dialog) could possibly be a bad thing.

 

[Insane Psychic]

IIrc 14 CON gives a bonus in BG2. Anyway the point of giving him >90 HP is to not be immediately vulnerable to Power Words or Symbols that have 90HP as a threshold.
It's not so much out of range that it's a super advantage (especially compared to the HP the PC or party members have) in itself.

I think it starts at +1 at 15, going +2 at 16 and +3/+4 at 17 and 18, but only for warrior classes.

Anyways. his main cheat is his extra contingencies i think, but without 'em he'd fall a bit too easily to 2-3 mages I suppose. I can't recall if he has more spells per level than originally allowed however.

 

[Volourn]

"They did keep Charm and Intimidate: It's just that both are inexorably linked to yr Paragon and Renegade levels. See those blue / red convo choices? That's Charm and Intimidate."

No, they took them out. Charm and intimidate were TALENTS that you had to CHOOSE toe be good at (barring some free points for being a spectre). In ME2, everybody has access to them simply by 'playing their alignment'. It's nott eh same fuckin' thing and is just another example of ME2's dumbing down.

It's like D&D using your alignment to determine how good and how you converse. Fuckin' dumb.

FFS FFS FFS FFS FFS

 

[Clockwork Knight]

They are still there, only you don't have to spend points in them because they're in the form of the Ren / Par bars.

 

[Volourn]

No, they aren't still there. Persaude and intimidation talents are fuckin' gone. This is a fcukin' fact. Only paragon vs renegade supreme options are there niow. FFS

 

[Achilles]

I don't see how removing the completely useless inventory system which only served to distract from the core of the game (shooter gameplay and dialog) could possibly be a bad thing.

Because it provided another (albeit thin) layer of depth to the gameplay and they should have improved it, not thrown it out altogether.

 

[Pliskin]

No, they aren't still there. Persaude and intimidation talents are fuckin' gone. This is a fcukin' fact. Only paragon vs renegade supreme options are there niow. FFS

That work exactly the same as Charm and Intimidate FFS.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

That work exactly the same as Charm and Intimidate FFS.

No it doesn't. Formerly it was part of the character system, now it's just a larping tracker.