BioWare RPG Philosophy

[VentilatorOfDoom]

1UP <a href="http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=9023025">are blogging</a> about Bios RPG design philosophy.

<p style="margin-left:50px;border-style:solid;border-width:1px;border-top-color:#ffffff;padding:5px;border-right-color:#bbbbbb;border-left-color:#ffffff;border-bottom-color:#bbbbbb;">The reason I mention all this is because much of the debate concerning whether or not Mass Effect 2 is an RPG is based around the combat and the lack of an inventory (there's even another BioWare panel later this week titled "Where's my Inventory!") But the common thread in all of BioWare's games is always the dialogue trees, which is obviously what they consider to be the heart of an RPG. During the panel, the localization team talked about how the writers are tweaking and recording new dialogue up until the last weeks before Cert, and how a great deal of time and money is devoted toward making sure the dialogue is just right.
</p>

So the dialogue trees are the heart of an RPG?

Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.rpgwatch.com/#14561">RPGWatch</A>

 

[relootz]

From what I've read, the average 300 page novel clocks in at approximately 75,000 words. By comparison, the original Mass Effect contains approximately 300,000 words, Mass Effect 2 adds to that total with 450,000 words, and Dragon Age dwarfs them both with some 1,000,000 words.

Lots of words and all meaningless drab. Incredible job Bioware.

 

[The Feral Kid]

and how a great deal of time and money is devoted toward making sure the dialogue is just right.

Way to be an apologist for stupid design decisions and reducing more and more gameplay elements. Balance is obviously a concept Bio have never heard of.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

More words = better writing

hmmm. Maybe the Bio guys have assburgers too?

 

[Lingwe]

There is a trade off to be made between having enough dialogue to give players who value interactions a decent length of play time and how much combat you give the players who enjoy combat more.

Or you can just give them all the same amount regardless of which part they enjoy, right Bio -Endless Tunnels of Enemies-ware?

 

[Burning Bridges]

So the dialogue trees are the heart of an RPG?

Enter Dialog-RPGs, or DRPGs. Which makes me wonder, if this is so important in Bioware games, are storyfags then dialogfags too?

Also, is anybody able to explain what kind of dialog options are in DA? So far I believed dialog in DA works mostly like a multiple choice test:
a) friendly answer
b) neutral answer
c) hostile answer

I'm at a loss. If I google for "dragon age dialogs" I get mostly screenshots of that skinny, flat breasted chick with the short hair, but not much in terms of dialogs.

 

[Sceptic]

Someone posted an image of the joining right after the game came out. This is what the answers looked like:
a) yes
b) yes
c) yes
d) yes
e) yes

Tells you all you need to know about Bioware dialog.

Fake edit: this was for only one of the origins. The others have e) as a no answer and a fake choice that leads to exactly the same outcome. The 5 yeses one is still incredibly shitty.

 

[Cenobyte]

Also, is anybody able to explain what kind of dialog options are in DA? So far I believed dialog in DA works mostly like a multiple choice test:
a) friendly answer
b) neutral answer
c) hostile answer

But exactly this procedure needs 1,000,000 dialogue lines. You've to keep in mind that EVERY damn dialogue needs these choices! And because it's awesome Bioware, you need this ménage à trois not only once in a given dialogue, but thrice!

But of course, it's very important to note that 1,000,000 dialogue lines by no means say anything about the actual quality of these. Plus I think that they also count their codex entries as "dialogue lines".

 

[FeelTheRads]

Someone posted an image of the joining right after the game came out. This is what the answers looked like:
a) yes
b) yes
c) yes
d) yes
e) yes

Tells you all you need to know about Bioware dialog.

Fake edit: this was for only one of the origins. The others have e) as a no answer and a fake choice that leads to exactly the same outcome. The 5 yeses one is still incredibly shitty.

That is humor. Get it. It's to make you laugh. Like Bethesda did in Failout 3 where you have to take a test and all the answers to one of the questions are: The Overseer.

Hilarious.

 

[Sceptic]

R00falicious.

 

[mondblut]

the larpers here must worship them.

 

[bhlaab]

Check out this great new rpg I played

 

[random_encounter]

From what I've read, the average 300 page novel clocks in at approximately 75,000 words. By comparison, the original Mass Effect contains approximately 300,000 words, Mass Effect 2 adds to that total with 450,000 words, and Dragon Age dwarfs them both with some 1,000,000 words.

But is that number taking into account the encyclopedic entries and other descriptors outside of actual dialogue? If so, it's being a little disingenuous with the implication that it's all dialogue related.

 

[Cenobyte]

@ bhlaab: NOLF is actually a very good game and the dialogues are good fun

But yeah, I definitely agree that a whole lot of dialogue lines doesn't automatically make a given game an RPG.

 

[Archaeon]

So the dialogue trees are the heart of an RPG?

Enter Dialog-RPGs, or DRPGs. Which makes me wonder, if this is so important in Bioware games, are storyfags then dialogfags too?

Also, is anybody able to explain what kind of dialog options are in DA? So far I believed dialog in DA works mostly like a multiple choice test:
a) friendly answer
b) neutral answer
c) hostile answer

I'm at a loss. If I google for "dragon age dialogs" I get mostly screenshots of that skinny, flat breasted chick with the short hair, but not much in terms of dialogs.

OF course it came out blank... it's DIALOGUE idiot not dialog

 

[shihonage]

Bioware believes that illusion of choice is more important than choice. I can't blame them, because most people can't tell the difference, and appealing to "most people" gets "most money".

 

[Sarvis]

Someone posted an image of the joining right after the game came out. This is what the answers looked like:
a) yes
b) yes
c) yes
d) yes
e) yes

Tells you all you need to know about Bioware dialog.

Fake edit: this was for only one of the origins. The others have e) as a no answer and a fake choice that leads to exactly the same outcome. The 5 yeses one is still incredibly shitty.

Considering any other possible choice at that point leads to death and the end of the game, what would be the point of adding other "real" choices?

 

[Sceptic]

Then don't. Make it a cutscene. Force it on the player. Make it absolutely clear that the character has no choice in the matter. Then at least it'll be palatable instead of rage-inducing.

 

[Volourn]

Oh please, this is the Codex. It would rage about it anyways. FFS

Botom fuckin' line is if you don't want to role-play a fuckin' Warden don't play fuckin' DA. FFS

Just like if you don't want to role-play a vamp don't play BL, if you don't want to play an ugly immortal male don't play PST, etc., etc.

FFS FFS FFS FFS FFS


P.S. That's how you fuckin' do NERDRAGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sceptic]

Once again Volly rages so hard he completely misses the point.

The complaint isn't about being a Warden or not, or about being forced into it, it's about HOW it's presented to you.

Even KOTOR, an otherwise much shittier game than Dragon Age, did the whole forcing thing better. Same for Mass Effect.

 

[MetalCraze]

No - forcing IS the bigger problem

Funny how people fap to their fag-C&C yet their best game evar DA:O can be completed by clicking dialogues randomly and not paying attention to them at all.

 

[Volourn]

"Even KOTOR, an otherwise much shittier game than Dragon Age, did the whole forcing thing better."


"No - forcing IS the bigger problem"

bULLSHIT X2

 

[Gosling]

Even KOTOR, an otherwise much shittier game than Dragon Age, did the whole forcing thing better. Same for Mass Effect.

How did KOTOR do it better?

 

[The Feral Kid]

Even KOTOR, an otherwise much shittier game than Dragon Age,

FAIL

 

[Soulforged]

Lots of words and all meaningless drab. Incredible job Bioware.

Not all the dialogue is meaningless, nor should it be all meaningful.

And Bioware does a very good job writing characters and integrating them into the story, sure most of the time they recycle ideas (as if it were possible to be completly original all the time) and they appeal too much to the lower instincts of humans (the sense of the epic, love, romance, passion, anger, etc.) sometimes with subtlety and sometimes bluntly, but they get the job done, that's more that I can say for most other companies and their games.