Roger Ebert: VIDYA GAEMS CAN'T BE ART!!1

[WhiskeyWolf]

I so wish it was a parody.

...hell.

Yeah, I clicked the link, started reading, the page was loading like 4mb before I got the BSOD and was still crashing everytime I try do restart the PC... thankfully the "last known working option" came to help.

 

[Trash]

I was actually thinking about the works of Rembrandt and other masters of that period that often painted portraits and did so for a living. This is something a militia ordered as a nice remembrance, yet it is nowadays seen as a marvelous piece of art.

Michelangelo worked on commission as well. Indeed, the very idea of art for art's sake didn't even exist prior to the 19th century. Art was always seen purely from an utilitarian point of view. I'd reckon there probably isn't any other context. This is why i always stressed more on the idea of genius, the concept of art being essentially irrelevant.

To elucidate what i mean, lets compare this not so great painting by Michelangelo:

against one of Raphael's most outstanding ones:

Both paintings are of course purely utilitarian in nature, that is, their purpose is not to be artistic, based on some arbitrary parameter, but to simply represent a scene. Yet, in the case of Michelangelo, he infuses something in his depiction that strikes us as real. It is the Deluge that we see in his painting, and we see it the way Michelangelo sees it, through the eyes of a genius. The Raphael is more technically accomplished, and yet, it is a complete and utter failure. He paints a scene here, and scene there, but the actual event is completely lost. There is no unity of any kind, no deeper insight into the essence of the event being depicted. Even the Pope, the very center piece of the story, whom legend says extinguished the fire with his benediction, appears in the distance, small and insignificant. Everything that could have made this picture great is completely missing. Is it art? Probably not, but it pretends to be, which is why it is considered art anyway since most people cannot understand genius in the first place.

Funny, this is one of the first times I agree wholeheartedly with you. I must be getting old, conservative and cranky. :wink:

 

[Clockwork Knight]

engaging in some light necro

 

[Sceptic]

This is exactly why modern art sucks.

 

[Black Cat]

There is no way i'm going to read nine pages of people discussing what is art and what isn't art to check if someone posted this before, so forgive the pretty cat if it is so, but wasn't Ebert the guy who gave a sweet, warm, loving blowjob to Cosmology of Kyoto more than ten years ago? Surprise, surprise. He is.

Cosmology of Kyoto

By Roger Ebert

The Cosmology of Kyoto CD-ROM comes with a bare minimum of instructions, informing me in a few words how to move within the images. No goal is established and no points are scored; the game never informs me what the object is, although it discreetly tracks the levels of karma and cash I have attained and keeps an inventory of my possessions. The disc comes packaged with a large fold-out map showing the streets and principal buildings of Kyoto - circa 900, when, as Heiankyo, it was the capital of Japan. I begin to wander the streets.

The richness is almost overwhelming; there is the sense that the resources of this game are limitless and that no two players would have the same experience. I have been exploring the ancient city in spare moments for two weeks now, and doubt that I have even begun to scratch the surface. This is the most beguiling computer game I have encountered, a seamless blend of information, adventure, humor, and imagination - the gruesome side-by-side with the divine.

In this medieval Kyoto, people exist alongside ghosts, demons, and goblins. On my travels I have met - and interacted with - a dog eating entrails, long-winded old farts, tradespeople (who offered me medicines, dried fish, cloth, rice cakes, amulets, and a chance to lose money on a cock fight), a monk leading a prayer meeting, kids playing ball in the streets (one is beheaded by a passerby), a friendly guide dog, a maiden with an obscenely phallic tongue, and a gambler who taught me a dice game.

The graphics are hauntingly effective, using a wide-screen landscape format. The individual characters are drawn with vivid facial characteristics, a cross between the cartoons of medieval Japanese art and the exaggerations of modern Japanimation. The speaking voices are filled with personality, often taunting, teasing, or sexy. There is the sense, illusory but seductive, that one could wander this world indefinitely. This is a wonderful game.

So games can't be art, right Roger? Say it again, i can't hear it above all the artsy *slurp, slurp, slurp*.

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

Nice find, little girl. Is the game any good?

 

[Black Cat]

It is one of the best games ever made, no competition. Though calling it a game may be somewhat misleading. It is more of a multimedia experience, amazing and atmospheric and involving but there is no real consistent gameplay other than situational puzzles that are never really hard and a couple of minigames that make sense inside the setting. And many of the little situations you find, the historial and mythological characters you come across, and the things you learn change slightly depending on how do you react to them or to others before. It's pretty interesting, but being honest about the beliefs and context both cultural and spiritual of the Heian period implies it is ridiculously dire and dark too.

Here, i found the trailer on youtube so you can see the art style, the atmosphere, and the music. It is bloody delightful.

And you will come across lots of people and events and situations you have read about if you are interested in asian mysticism and the like while wandering around, too.

 

[Havoc]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/article ... mes-as-Art

 

[Sceptic]

wasn't Ebert the guy who gave a sweet, warm, loving blowjob to Cosmology of Kyoto more than ten years ago? Surprise, surprise. He is.

This is such a good find that I hereby forgive you for all your nya and like-totally-filled posts that made my eyes bleed. I would like to officially join your fan club.

Is the game any good?

YES. Probably hard to find (though nothing's too hard with torrent) but very much worth it. Very unique and very beautiful. The current crop of "I am so full of symbolism" games pales to a 15 year old one.

 

[SCO]

There is no way i'm going to read nine pages of people discussing what is art and what isn't art to check if someone posted this before, so forgive the pretty cat if it is so, but wasn't Ebert the guy who gave a sweet, warm, loving blowjob to Cosmology of Kyoto more than ten years ago? Surprise, surprise. He is.

Cosmology of Kyoto

By Roger Ebert

The Cosmology of Kyoto CD-ROM comes with a bare minimum of instructions, informing me in a few words how to move within the images. No goal is established and no points are scored; the game never informs me what the object is, although it discreetly tracks the levels of karma and cash I have attained and keeps an inventory of my possessions. The disc comes packaged with a large fold-out map showing the streets and principal buildings of Kyoto - circa 900, when, as Heiankyo, it was the capital of Japan. I begin to wander the streets.

The richness is almost overwhelming; there is the sense that the resources of this game are limitless and that no two players would have the same experience. I have been exploring the ancient city in spare moments for two weeks now, and doubt that I have even begun to scratch the surface. This is the most beguiling computer game I have encountered, a seamless blend of information, adventure, humor, and imagination - the gruesome side-by-side with the divine.

In this medieval Kyoto, people exist alongside ghosts, demons, and goblins. On my travels I have met - and interacted with - a dog eating entrails, long-winded old farts, tradespeople (who offered me medicines, dried fish, cloth, rice cakes, amulets, and a chance to lose money on a cock fight), a monk leading a prayer meeting, kids playing ball in the streets (one is beheaded by a passerby), a friendly guide dog, a maiden with an obscenely phallic tongue, and a gambler who taught me a dice game.

The graphics are hauntingly effective, using a wide-screen landscape format. The individual characters are drawn with vivid facial characteristics, a cross between the cartoons of medieval Japanese art and the exaggerations of modern Japanimation. The speaking voices are filled with personality, often taunting, teasing, or sexy. There is the sense, illusory but seductive, that one could wander this world indefinitely. This is a wonderful game.

So games can't be art, right Roger? Say it again, i can't hear it above all the artsy *slurp, slurp, slurp*.

I officially don't believe you are 16 years old and so, i don't believe you are even a woman, by prior lies.

 

[Gragt]

As far as I can tell, he only said that it's a wonderful game.

 

[Black Cat]

@ SCO

Isn't it obvious? I asked my familiar demon to get the review for me, duh. Being a witch has its advantages.

Now really, smart guy... Thread about Cosmology of Kyoto on Chris' Survival Horror Quest forums. The date is from 2007, duh. Ebert's review being mentioned on the first post, and i actually copied the text from there since the original site (Wired, as mentioned in the trailer i just linked to) is really hard to copy because the format kind of sucks. It is not my fault you can't do basic research and need hand holding, a tutorial, and a journal entry to find a review on a weird game almost no one reviewed.

Can you leave me alone now, pretty please? Thank you.

 

[madbringer]

Hurp durp gaems ar gaems not picturz hurp durp

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

This is exactly why modern art sucks.

Seems like a straw man to me. I've never seen anyone arguing that video games are not art hold up some stupid modern "art" exhibit as an example.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

 

[Clockwork Knight]

http://www.smbc-comics.com/images/videogames.gif[/img[/quote]
This is exactly why modern art sucks.[/quote]

Seems like a straw man to me. I've never seen anyone arguing that video games are not art hold up some stupid modern "art" exhibit as an example.[/quote]

the point is that most people will laugh at the idea of vidya being considered art (lol its something you buy for billy jr. if he behaves lol), but retarded modern art, if not liked, is tolerated. Whether a particular person would say that isn't relevant (second panel is exaggerated for comic purposes, but it's still true)

 

[I.C. Wiener]

Well put, old chap

 

[coldcrow]

I am trying to do a LP of Cosmology, but I can't get the Screenies to display correct colours. If anyone has a solution for that, I'd be happy.

Also, Dreamweb.

 

[Monk]

Anything can be cosndiered a work of art. The issue is if it's a significant work of art.

 

[I.C. Wiener]

I am trying to do a LP of Cosmology, but I can't get the Screenies to display correct colours. If anyone has a solution for that, I'd be happy.

Also, Dreamweb.

Worked fine for me in win95 compat/256 color on XP, what OS are you using?

 

[Paula Tormeson IV]

It is one of the best games ever made, no competition. Though calling it a game may be somewhat misleading. It is more of a multimedia experience, amazing and atmospheric and involving but there is no real consistent gameplay other than situational puzzles that are never really hard and a couple of minigames that make sense inside the setting. And many of the little situations you find, the historial and mythological characters you come across, and the things you learn change slightly depending on how do you react to them or to others before. It's pretty interesting, but being honest about the beliefs and context both cultural and spiritual of the Heian period implies it is ridiculously dire and dark too.

Here, i found the trailer on youtube so you can see the art style, the atmosphere, and the music. It is bloody delightful.

And you will come across lots of people and events and situations you have read about if you are interested in asian mysticism and the like while wandering around, too.

Cool. Thanks. Downloading it as I write.

 

[Mortmal]

Hehe amazing to see the diversity of posters in the codex,i see quite a rise in post quality here compared to the usual "you are a faggot for playing dragon age" thing .
Thats a first i learned something new while reading general gaming! I am going to try that cosmology of kyoto game, sounds intriguing enough.
That said i see absolutely no reason to not call video games art, its a synthesis of writing , music, graphic art and much more.

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

That said i see absolutely no reason to not call video games art, its a synthesis of writing , music, graphic art and much more.

The coke can I'm drinking from atm is a synthesis of writing and graphic art that is pleasing to the eye. I wouldn't call it art though, at least not in the same sense I'd call the Sistine Chapel a work of art.

 

[Rhalle]

Video Games can't be real, serious art.

But clearly some are more works of art than others.

:mystery:

 

[Clockwork Knight]

That said i see absolutely no reason to not call video games art, its a synthesis of writing , music, graphic art and much more.

The coke can I'm drinking from atm is a synthesis of writing and graphic art that is pleasing to the eye. I wouldn't call it art though, at least not in the same sense I'd call the Sistine Chapel a work of art.

Way I see it, you could consider the Sistine Chapel a "greater" form of art. Most of the resistance I've seen to call vidya art is because people feel it would mean putting vidya on the same level as Mona Lisa, when imo it could mean accepting games as art, just not with the same significance / impact. That coke can was created through a lenghty process involving designers trying to achieve a pleasant appearance; graphical art.

Not that the sistine chapel or mona lisa were considered anything more than very pretty paintings at the time they were completed . Their significance comes from them being a part of history, not because they look cool (they do, but that's a bonus. We have plenty of generic - and, sometimes, plain butt ugly - paintings and the like that are immensely valuable just because they were created by certin people during a certain period)