Imma playing Knights of the Chalice

[Roguey]

Spamming fireballs and crafting color-coded items is "strategic combat" now?

I'll have to take other peoples' word that crafting is overpowered since I didn't stumble on this win-button myself. But apparently you also read this on the Codex and didn't discover it yourself since you never actually made it past the beginning. If you had any interest, I'd suggest playing it in iron man mode and seeing how far mindlessness gets you. But of course you shouldn't bother.

Help system not well-implemented? It's D&D 3.5 you faggot, not rocket science.

I support any feature that adds accessibility without insulting my intelligence and implementing a manual within the game itself is preferable to alt+tabbing to a text file. Not everyone is a D&D expert, and the ToEE reviews showed that there are quite a few people out there who think it's complicated and confusing for whatever reasons.

KotC's encounters are by far the worst I had in a videogame because the sad part is that "Mr. Beque" was trying.

From a tactical perspective they're mostly interesting. Ideally one should balance fun/realism, but I'd rather someone lean on the side of the former if they don't have the writing talent to deliver the latter.

Boo hoo, we must support his quality-lacking content because he's a single guy! Fuck EA! Fight the system!

It seems like as far as you're concerned, quality=mostly writing so of course you shouldn't support anyone who doesn't cater to your preferences. I've only ever had the attitude of "try the demo, if you like it, buy it". I'd never recommend someone blindly buy something or support something they're not into out of principle.

X-COM? JA1? JA2? Silent Storm?

And when I get tired of shooting aliens and people in those particular scenarios, what then? They should stop making games in that style because a handful of some 7-16 year old games "perfected" them?

OK, so now RTwP gameplay is bad? Sure, turn-based combat can be better, but the Infinity Engine combat holds it ground quite formidably.

What do you mean by now? Classic Codex mostly hated that style of play with a passion and I agree with their assessments even though I can mildly tolerate it.

 

[visions]

I'll have to take other peoples' word that crafting is overpowered since I didn't stumble on this win-button myself.

From my experience, the most overpowered thing about the crafting seems to be the ability to make slaying arrows, if you have a knight with high dexterity.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Don't worry lads....

That should have gotten rid of the Argie.

Very true about the slaying arrows. I usually avoid crafting skills as it turns games a bit silly...though it can be very annoying when the developers tend to rest on that skill and don't bother placing anything of worth ingame.

 

[Darth Roxor]

If I want that shit I fire up ToEE which has a much better interface, and much more interesting dungeons, even if they're utter crap

Hey, did I mention that your credibilty equals zero? Yeah, this is some more proof right here.

 

[Jim Cojones]

I'll have to take other peoples' word that crafting is overpowered since I didn't stumble on this win-button myself.

From my experience, the most overpowered thing about the crafting seems to be the ability to make slaying arrows, if you have a knight with high dexterity.

Only in the mid-game (which is the easiest part anyway). Later creatures will have high save rolls and DC for slaying arrows doesn't get higher with caster level so they become useless.

I have found scrolls and wands more powerful because for a very small cost they allow you to avoid the spellcasting restrictions.

 

[1eyedking]

I'll have to take other peoples' word that crafting is overpowered since I didn't stumble on this win-button myself. But apparently you also read this on the Codex and didn't discover it yourself since you never actually made it past the beginning. If you had any interest, I'd suggest playing it in iron man mode and seeing how far mindlessness gets you. But of course you shouldn't bother.

Iron Man games aren't very fun in games where you particularly must save/reload. If this were a P&P session where I'm being sent to a cemetery's underground maze this stuff is cool since I can expect to find nothing but undead and prepare accordingly, but as I said KotC suffers from Final-Fantasytis and you tend to get gobbled up against spiders, goblins, zombies, animals, and dragons in a single dungeon.

You know what? KotC's encounters are boring. There mostly isn't any environmental challenge because traps are completely missing, the engine doesn't support windows/slits, there's no ground elevation, no chasms, no bridge battles, nothing. This game would be interesting to a 15 year-old kid who's having his first go at D&D, but for us veterans?

From a tactical perspective they're mostly interesting. Ideally one should balance fun/realism, but I'd rather someone lean on the side of the former if they don't have the writing talent to deliver the latter.

Let's play talentless games then!

Realism ≠ Believable. Zombies don't exist, but given their physiognomy, why would I find them tagging along with freaking intelligent spiders, goddammit.

It seems like as far as you're concerned, quality=mostly writing so of course you shouldn't support anyone who doesn't cater to your preferences. I've only ever had the attitude of "try the demo, if you like it, buy it". I'd never recommend someone blindly buy something or support something they're not into out of principle.

You obviously don't know me. Quality to me is not only good gameplay, but good art direction. You're presenting a professional project to the world, for fuck's sake. A game needs to be solid and talented from all angles, which includes art design, writing, music, sounds, story, and atmosphere as long as said parts are permitting (I'm not going to ask a campaign out of Counter-Strike, for example).

And when I get tired of shooting aliens and people in those particular scenarios, what then? They should stop making games in that style because a handful of some 7-16 year old games "perfected" them?

They should start making games that add something new. Or at least don't fuck up the basic concepts, never in an X-COM battle did I feel I was battling something out of place or incoherent with the game's flow/objective.

And shit if I uninstalled Silent Storm as soon as the fucking Panzerkleins appeared.

What do you mean by now? Classic Codex mostly hated that style of play with a passion and I agree with their assessments even though I can mildly tolerate it.

Bwahahaha! "Classic Codex"? How cute! They're just two different ways to play out games. Turn-based games let you think more, yes, but real-time games offer a greater adrenaline rush while still leaving some room for thinking (try StarCraft, Company of Heroes, etc.). You mostly do the "heavy" thinking before a battle starts, such as coming up with a build order in an RTS or speccing your character in an RPG, but even when pus comes to shove the fun resides in acting and thinking at the same time. The best multiplayer games players have that ability. Think Potti in CS, or Boxer in SC.

Furthermore a game that on top of a real-time engine offers a pause feature completely bypasses the reflex component of said engine. You know why the "Classic Codex" complained about RTwP? It didn't bitch because the system in itself was bad, it bitched because dumb kiddies prefer it over a turn-based one and the first ended up overshadowing the latter. RTwP isn't the culprit - it's the fucking dumb idiots who can't see the good in a turn, and can't stand a little abstraction in their games.

That said, I would personally love to see more turn-based games getting released in the future, but not of the laughable quality of Knights of the Chalice.

 

[SkeleTony]

I would add to what 'Serious' said above that even IF a game is nothing BUT combat, that does not make the game any less cerebral than a thousand quasi-Taoist, "story driven" games full of pre-generated and boring PCs/NPCs. Tactics IS "thinking"!

Having said that, I am no fan of KoTC for my own reasons.

 

[1eyedking]

Hey, did I mention that your credibilty equals zero? Yeah, this is some more proof right here.

The argument being...?

 

[Luzur]

wow, talk about totally changing the game style.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Hey, did I mention that your credibilty equals zero? Yeah, this is some more proof right here.

The argument being...?

You have to be braindead to say that KotC's interface without any shitty wheel menus, with everything hotkeyed and with an in-game manual that isn't completely borked is worse than ToEE's. Same goes for ToEE's dungeons full of bugbears and empty rooms.

 

[1eyedking]

You have to be braindead to say that KotC's interface without any shitty wheel menus, with everything hotkeyed and with an in-game manual that isn't completely borked is worse than ToEE's. Same goes for ToEE's dungeons full of bugbears and empty rooms.

KotC's interface is now good? It doesn't even have a goddamn HUD for fuck's sake. And what's wrong with empty rooms? Does the entire dungeon need to be a freaking rollercoaster of monsters and loot? You people are pretty dumb sometimes.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

You have to be braindead to say that KotC's interface without any shitty wheel menus, with everything hotkeyed and with an in-game manual that isn't completely borked is worse than ToEE's. Same goes for ToEE's dungeons full of bugbears and empty rooms.

KotC's interface is now good? It doesn't even have a goddamn HUD for fuck's sake. And what's wrong with empty rooms? Does the entire dungeon need to be a freaking rollercoaster of monsters and loot? You people are pretty dumb sometimes.

You are reaching now. Give it up. Yes the interface is good, and it doesn't need a HUD for retards attached to it.

As for empty rooms, well, if you like empty rooms...for the decor perhaps? To have some sweet silence in which to contemplate the art direction? Compose a poem for your fanfic?

No, run off and play one of your art games. Still, since you cannot help blasting off so much about a game you apparently hate, I can only assume you cannot seem to find one to play.

My condolences if correct.

 

[1eyedking]

Explain to me how lacking a HUD is good interface. The hyperlinked D&D database (like Civilization's Civilopedia) isn't an interface, dumbass. It's just data. Admit you just like it because it's got huge-ass pixels in it and it's got that "yeahhh old-school" vibe that you somehow think makes a game instantly awesome (gotta give kudos to the creator who knows how fucking nostalgic and dumb his target audience is) - even though it doesn't feature cool stuff like this. But whatever, you can find D&D rules anywhere on the internet.

And just so you know hotkeys weren't invented last year.

And yes, I like some empty rooms here and there as long as they have a structural purpose such serving as sleeping quarters, bathrooms, and the like. I don't need my bathrooms to be filled with Level 3 Fighter Stools and a Level 2 Wizard Piss Stain that casts Sleep on your party as soon as you get inside so I can scream ZOMG ENCOUNTER DESIGN!!!11! in ecstasy, thank you.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Explain to me how lacking a HUD is good interface. The hyperlinked D&D database (like Civilization's Civilopedia) isn't an interface, dumbass. It's just data. Admit you just like it because it's got huge-ass pixels in it and it's got that "yeahhh old-school" vibe that you somehow think makes a game instantly awesome (gotta give kudos to the creator who knows how fucking nostalgic and dumb his target audience is) - even though it doesn't feature cool stuff like this. But whatever, you can find D&D rules anywhere on the internet.

And just so you know hotkeys weren't invented last year.

And yes, I like some empty rooms here and there as long as they have a structural purpose such serving as sleeping quarters, bathrooms, and the like. I don't need my bathrooms to be filled with Level 3 Fighter Stools and a Level 2 Wizard Piss Stain that casts Sleep on your party as soon as you get inside so I can scream ZOMG ENCOUNTER DESIGN!!!11! in ecstasy, thank you.

Not having a HUD allows more of the battleground to be seen, especially in a tactical game. I would have thought this to be self evident, even to a moron. I apologise for overestimating your intelligence. Not sure what D&D rules have to do with anything, but if typing that makes you feel important...be my guest.

Glad you like empty rooms then. Excellent. I would love to know how much time you have wasted gazing in adoration at these empty rooms. Must have been exciting.

 

[circ]

You people are really praising and hating KotC for the wrong reasons. Like lacking a HUD and supar combat LOLOLOL. The story blows, the quests blow, and the combat because of the lack of classes, gets pretty damn tiresome when there's nothing else to keep your attention piqued, like in ToEE. A whole lot of time no doubt went into the legendary weapons too, but when you can craft a better one with no effort, what's the point of that? I used to think the AI was pretty hot shit at first, but when it becomes apparent the patterns are predictable, you're just popamoling. But then this isn't unique to KotC or anything.

 

[Darth Roxor]

It doesn't even have a goddamn HUD for fuck's sake.

It doesn't? That's too bad, I guess.

And what's wrong with empty rooms? Does the entire dungeon need to be a freaking rollercoaster of monsters and loot? You people are pretty dumb sometimes.

Two or three empty rooms serving as 'bathrooms' are okay and make things believable. Twenty or thirty, however, are symptoms of lazy design and lack of creative idea.

 

[circ]

Two or three empty rooms serving as 'bathrooms' are okay and make things believable. Twenty or thirty, however, are symptoms of lazy design and lack of creative idea.

If we're still talking about ToEE empty rooms then they did have a design purpose, namely that the temple was thought to be destroyed and got reinhabited by Zuggtmoy's servants, of which there weren't a massive amount. Some inhabitants were there from the before the circle got involved, and most of them got killed in the battle. There are actually a ridiculous amount of mobs in some rooms, and the rest are storerooms and the like. Moathouse; similar reasoning. Old ruins taken over by Zuggtmoy's servants, most of them using Lareth's quarters, mercs in the surrounding areas.

 

[analt]

I used to think the AI was pretty hot shit at first, but when it becomes apparent the patterns are predictable, you're just popamoling. But then this isn't unique to KotC or anything.

I hate how even being dead or not having eyes or a brain doesn't stop every single enemy in the gameworld from magically knowing who all your spellcasters are and mindessly coming after them. To the point that you can use them as bait.

 

[Castanova]

KotC was the best party-based RPG in years and years and this is the shit people are complaining about?

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

KotC was the best party-based RPG in years and years and this is the shit people are complaining about?

What did you expect? I bet that at least 70 to 80% of people at the Codex played Dragon Age/Oblivion/Alphaturd. I doubt if 20% have even bothered with this game. One look at the graphics would have most of them heading for the hills

 

[vazquez595654]

I can see why some will like this game, but I'm not interested in micromanaging a bunch of text boxes. Too much work. And the combat takes forever. It's rather boring watching the AI move for minutes at a time. It reminds me of that other horrible game people seem to like here, Wizardry 8, the most tedious game ever created.

 

[Tramboi]

Not having a HUD allows more of the battleground to be seen, especially in a tactical game. I would have thought this to be self evident, even to a moron. I apologise for overestimating your intelligence.

Precisely.
Moreover opaque HUDs in 2D games like Diablo were nearly always a TECHNICAL trick to lower the surface to blit. Nothing to do with ergonomics.

 

[Mortmal]

Its one of the best rpg released since years, good enough to be compared to classics like gold box games(pool of radiance, champions of krynn etc...) and yet theres still people bitching about it... The interface is fantastic , easy to use intuitive, way more convenient than similar games i played, off course the next gen crowd never played those games . Find me another game with better combat too
As black adder said 80% of codex played oblivion, alpha protocol and such and pretend to hate them , but they cant possibly play anything else.It more and more obvious,its always the same few guys here who are knowledgeable about rpgs .
Theres no trap and theres no rogues in kotc but he said he diddnt implement them as they were lackluster in computer games , wich is true again, i dont think that placing a few generic traps like in nwn, uninventive traps just causing damage when you enter the area would add much to the gameplay.

I for one cant wait for kotc2 and the things he will add to it.

 

[JarlFrank]

Well, from what I've seen the one guy who complains most about KotC is 1eyedking and he's... well, a special case comparable to Skyway.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

I still think he (Pierre Begue) should have gone the Vogel-way, ie release games regularily (once or twice a year) and improve the engine step by step, 2 more classes, 1 more race, a few more spells, a couple of improved graphics here and there etc. Would have been better than to rework everything in 3 or 4 years and still fail to provide nextgen graffix - which will inevitably happen - to cater to more casual players. I think, targeting the oldschool RPG crowd by making the DnD implementation more complete (dual classing, skills) and adding a bit non-combat gameplay (ie for rogues) would have been a smart move.
Otoh his idea of providing a toolset a la NWN might have some success - if it's done right. But I'm uncertain about how many followers that will find without multiplayer.