Gothic I, worth it?

[MisterStone]

Yeah sorry, it looked brighter ingame, but I was too lazy to fix it in the image editing software. Maybe I will reload my old save and take my homies on an outing to the old camp. Anyone know some good in game recording software?

 

[DefJam101]

Fraps? I dunno

 

[Murk]

I like Greenshot

 

[MicoSelva]

G1, G3 and Risen are all pretty much based on the same progression template where you run back and forth factions, choose a faction, then advance the main storyline where the camp you chose doesn't matter too much, then all nonlinearity is gulag'd as you delve into the final dungeon equipped with uber things to the max. Everyone complained about Risen taking a piss after Chapter 3 and becoming a hack & slash fest, but i'm finding G1 isn't so different after the Sleeper invocation.

Yeah, this is the Gothic Successful Formula (TM). The first half of the game is much better. This solution has a lot of advantage over a reversed one, though - at least people reach that second half.

 

[Murk]

Part of the problem is on the user's end as a completionist habit. Many solve every quest in each area as they reach it, which I can't say I blame them, but when the game has you revisit areas over and over you end up with cities turning into trade/rest hubs and quest completion depots instead of more interaction hubs.

I suppose new quests forming towards the second half would help a lot.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

I'm not sure how they could solve it, to be honest. The efforts they've made have been half-hearted at best, I think they know it's a problem themselves, but it's been a problem in every remotely "open" RPG I've ever played. The most fun part of the game is when you're still weak, have to carefully weigh up your options, have only a few scrolls or strong potions to get you through hard fights and can maybe attempt a risky venture into an area you have no business being in to come away with fantastic loot that you shouldn't have for a long time yet. Everything's just a lot more interesting when you've yet to prove yourself and every venture outside the city gates is a struggle.
To me, that's the main draw of an open-world game, and the most defining moment of every one I've played has been when I finally tip the scale, get properly loaded out and I'm ready to get out and kick ass. The actual kicking of ass is never quite as memorable, and I'm not sure how any later half could live up to that early experience. Might be an issue for the workshop?

 

[MisterStone]

After playing G2 for a bit, I must say it's about a million times better. The textures are pretty damn awesome even allowing for outdated graphics. The outdoors look gorgeous, and it's really cool how for instance the designers arrange for you to bump into Lester without hard scripting stuff like that in. Areas are made with great attention to detail, and the light effects, etc. are put to great use. Voice acting is tons better as well. Since I had World of Gothic it installed Gothic II Gold (which has the NOTR add-on) so I can sort of tell when they are talking about the tacked-on expansion stuff due to abrupt changes in subject matter and different recording qualities of speech, but it's not too bad. Also I was happy to see there is alchemy in teh game, hopefully that will be fun to play with... Damn, it's been a long time since I became "immersed" (not being sarcastic) into a game as soon as I start playing.

If anyone is checkout out G1 and don't think they want to play through it, they should go ahead and try G2+ out.

 

[DefJam101]

I'm not sure how they could solve it, to be honest. The efforts they've made have been half-hearted at best, I think they know it's a problem themselves, but it's been a problem in every remotely "open" RPG I've ever played. The most fun part of the game is when you're still weak, have to carefully weigh up your options, have only a few scrolls or strong potions to get you through hard fights and can maybe attempt a risky venture into an area you have no business being in to come away with fantastic loot that you shouldn't have for a long time yet. Everything's just a lot more interesting when you've yet to prove yourself and every venture outside the city gates is a struggle.
To me, that's the main draw of an open-world game, and the most defining moment of every one I've played has been when I finally tip the scale, get properly loaded out and I'm ready to get out and kick ass. The actual kicking of ass is never quite as memorable, and I'm not sure how any later half could live up to that early experience. Might be an issue for the workshop?

Lower power curve helps, that way there is a gradual progression instead of I cannot kill wolf, +1, I can kill wolves. Extremely powerful enemies should always require some sort of advanced strategy to defeat no matter how high level your character is. I don't care if he has 200 strength a 6 ft. adventurer cannot kill a 60 ft. dragon by himself.

Also, more distinct character types. 'Easy' situations for a thief might be incredibly difficult for a fighter and vice versa. Equal difficulty quest solutions in an open world is eh

Bottom line I don't think you should be a god at the end of an open world RPG. Killing or defeating everything is fine, going toe-to-toe with everything is not.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

After playing G2 for a bit, I must say it's about a million times better. The textures are pretty damn awesome even allowing for outdated graphics. The outdoors look gorgeous, and it's really cool how for instance the designers arrange for you to bump into Lester without hard scripting stuff like that in. Areas are made with great attention to detail, and the light effects, etc. are put to great use. Voice acting is tons better as well. Since I had World of Gothic it installed Gothic II Gold (which has the NOTR add-on) so I can sort of tell when they are talking about the tacked-on expansion stuff due to abrupt changes in subject matter and different recording qualities of speech, but it's not too bad. Also I was happy to see there is alchemy in teh game, hopefully that will be fun to play with... Damn, it's been a long time since I became "immersed" (not being sarcastic) into a game as soon as I start playing.

If anyone is checkout out G1 and don't think they want to play through it, they should go ahead and try G2+ out.

I played half an hour of Gothic 1 and, to my shame, got bored and stopped. I grabbed G2 when it was £0.66 on Steam due to a pricing error that was fixed a couple of hours later, and as soon as I got over the clunky mechanics, it quickly became one of my favourite action RPGs. I should probably go back to G1 some time.

Lower power curve helps, that way there is a gradual progression instead of I cannot kill wolf, +1, I can kill wolves. Extremely powerful enemies should always require some sort of advanced strategy to defeat no matter how high level your character is. I don't care if he has 200 strength a 6 ft. adventurer cannot kill a 60 ft. dragon by himself.

Yeah, this is something that bothers me a bit. Call it LARPing, call it a failure to suspend disbelief, but I don't quite understand the bit where if you stab enough goblins for a few weeks you're suddenly resistant to dragon fire and able to wipe out whole armies. Whatever workout programme these guys are on, I want in on it

 

[Murk]

To me, that's the main draw of an open-world game, and the most defining moment of every one I've played has been when I finally tip the scale, get properly loaded out and I'm ready to get out and kick ass. The actual kicking of ass is never quite as memorable, and I'm not sure how any later half could live up to that early experience. Might be an issue for the workshop?

Likewise, I agree. I've been replaying Risen the last couple of days and Realized in great capacity how the best part of the game isn't the first chapter, but rather the time I hadn't figured out how to kill 9 wolves at once or the timing mechanism of dodging boars.

MisterStone - I'm glad you're loving G2, I'm also glad you have the add-in as well as the game really goes from "good" to "fucking great" with it, regardless of voice-acting problems.

Oh, just one fucking thing - and there's a minor spoiler here --- WHEN LARES ASKS YOU IF YOU WANT HIM TO TAKE YOU TO ONAR'S FARM OR THE WATER MAGES' DIG SITE GO TO THE WATER MAGES' DIG SITE FIRST OR ELSE YOU'LL HIT A GIANT ASS FUCKING BUG

On a meta-fora note, I'm very happy to see the constant "this thread got me to try the game for the first time" posts. Incline right fuckin' there.

 

[MisterStone]

Hmm, it seems that in Gothic II when you chose a faction you are also locking in a specific profession as well. I don't want to ask which one is best of course, but is it the case that this time the only way to get access to extensive spell library to join the magician's temple? I am guessing Mercs/Hunters don't get to use rune magic, and Paladins only get to learn Paladin magic? Is there a cap on fighting skills for a magician? Is there a limit to which guilds can learn thief skills (presumably stealing shit will not work for a paladin even if I know how to do it)?

 

[Gobbo]

I am guessing Mercs/Hunters don't get to use rune magic, and Paladins only get to learn Paladin magic? Is there a cap on fighting skills for a magician? Is there a limit to which guilds can learn thief skills (presumably stealing shit will not work for a paladin even if I know how to do it)?

Yeah, dragons hunters can't use rune magic, but scrolls are always useful. Paladin magic is pretty much useless in NOTR except for healing spells. Moreover you're free to learn whatever you want, there's no cap for magicians in melee, nor in thievery. If you want to be a paladin who is a thief - you can.

 

[SoupNazi]

Damn. Dragon hunters, man. That armor is fucking awesome.

 

[Murk]

Mage is probably the 'hardest' class to play for a first timer, requires a lot more LP splitting than any other class and it takes a while before your magic is at an actually competent level of use.

On the plus side, there's a lot more spells!

Each 'faction' still has 2 tiers, its just in a slightly different split than before which I think is a bit better as this way each faction isn't a copy cat in terms of class of the others.

Orcs are fuggin' brutal in NotR man.

 

[MisterStone]

So I wuz wondering... there are skills out that that would seem to potentially have a high pay off in the long run- for instance the "peasant language" skill that lets me read some tablets for 5 LP, or the strength potion recipe for 20LP. Early on in the game, are these skill going to pay off soon enough in terms of stat points for me to get my LP back?

 

[Admiral jimbob]

No, don't use anything like that until LP cost to increase skills via training is absurdly high, no matter how tempting the early boost will look. By the time your strength is at about 100, you'll be paying 25LP a time to increase it by 5. That's when you want to start investing in tablets and potions.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Ancient languages - learn them all. They pay off greatly. There are dozens upon dozens stone tablets for all skills and stats. As with the permanent potions, i would advice against spending lps early on. You want to use them only on one of the stats, which is your main because of limited supply of king sorrels and you want to use them only by the second half of the game when you have already worked out that stat beyond the reasonable threshold and don't want to spend more of the ridiculously expensive leaning points (after you get to 90 you have to spend 3lps for one unit, 4 after 120 and 5 after 150). So no, spend those 20lps only by the end of the game if ever. Also, you will have most of the ingredients for those potions many of which grow in places you are not yet able to get.

As for magic in general, i would also advice against palying one the first time you go through. It's a lot better to be familiar with environment before going for the hardest character class in the game.

 

[dr. one]

(after you get to 90 you have to spend 3lps for one unit, 4 after 120 and 5 after 150)

actually it´s 120 when costs become maxed.
yep otherwise.

it would be better if these boosts wouldn´t factor towards the cost increase count, on the other hand the jump in badassery which occurs once you finally use them at once can be quite satisfying.

in regards to permanent potions, i´m not quite sure if it´s possible to learn all of them in one playthrough, but due to limited supply of ingredients, learn just the one which will raise your most important stat.

 

[Murk]

On the perma-stat boost potions and tablets, use the HP increasing ones immediately as those are never LP dependent (only go up with levels) and if you plan to be a Mercenary then you might as well use the Mana increasing ones as well. Likewise, if you are 100% certain you are not going to increase dex or a certain combat skill, then you can use those up as well.

Only save the ones that match your primary stats. Likewise, pick only one of the 20LP costing potions to use, as there won't be enough King's Sorrel to go around.

 

[MisterStone]

Just picked this game up again recently, still enjoying it. I ignored Gnidro's advice completely and became a fire mage, just finished the tasks and became a full Mage. The only thing that annoyed me about this part is that they don't really provide good clues on where I need to embark on the quests, its like they assume I have already explored to whole continent or sth. However, once you figure out where the dork novices are waiting around it's pretty easy.

But fuck if being a mage isn't expensive. You have to pay for circles, pay for rune formulas, pay for mana. I ended up learning summon goblin skeleton as my first spell besides the one they give you for free, and realized immediately that I only have 19 manage, but I need 20! No biggie, some cash for Innos the god of fire and bribery will set it arright. Also I am considering buying that wand (weapon) at the monastery that gives me a mana bonus of +20 or something...

I'm assuming that for a while I need to just focus on beefing mana and learning a couple more spells... It might seem tough at lower levels, but I've seen goblin skeletons rape monsters that I am too weak to go 5 seconds with, so I am hoping that once the mana situation is fixed I will be good to go.

 

[Murk]

Real talk? You're gonna hit a point where neither your magic nor your neglected physical skills are going to be damaging enemies (past the minimum 5hp) and you're going to cry.

Gobble up scrolls and save at least 1 of every 'awesome spell' to make a rune, but remember that when you meet an orc you're gonna get your shit fucked something vicious.

 

[MisterStone]

I did an orc scout with a couple of gobbie skeletons; no doubt the tougher ones won't be so easy, but I think it will work out. As for whether or not it's easier than the other classes, I'll be so ignorant of all that it won't even bother me! Unless I hit a nasty brick wall like you describe...

BTW, if I just want to train up to use the min DEX swords, should I actually spend LP on DEX, or just hoard boosts to get it to that point? Usually stat boost are necessary later on, but if I just want DEX in order to use one of those maybe it's OK to just scarf the goblin berries and potions without training it?

 

[Johannes]

Encouraging this hoarding of stat-boost items is 1 of the reasons I'd say Gothic I is a better game than II.

But keep in mind that the late-game probably won't be challenging at all if you insist on stashing the boost items for now. Probably it won't be any hard then, even if you use the stuff right away either honestly.

 

[KalosKagathos]

Only played vanilla G2, but mages were overpowered there. When chapter 4 began, I had gallons of mana potions on me and easily killed all orcs around the former Old Camp by spamming lightning bolts. Dragons were complete pushovers as well. Playing a paladin or a dragon hunter, on the other hand, required some skill and memorization of enemy AI patterns. Did mages get nerfed in NotR?

 

[dr. one]

mana bonus

eat dark mushrooms, you get +5 mana per 50 eaten!