Overpowered Stuff in NWN/NWN2

[Admiral jimbob]

Evard's Black tentatcles is not overpowered.

Yes it is.

 

[Decado]

Pretty much. NWN2 had you kill 2 dragons at the same time, after that I was like "Welp!"

Are you talking about the big Red in the OC or the two blacks in SoZ?

I'm talking about the two blacks that you kill in order to destroy the crystal heart.

Dragons -- at least in the Forgotten Realms setting -- are supposed to be insanely dangerous creatures, impossible to beat by all but the strongest of parties.

Depends on the dragon and the wisdom of the those fighting it.

Dragon encounters are no joke, they're supposed to be difficult, unless you're fighting some kind of retarded teenager dragon or something.

The point is, fighting two black dragons is a task for epic level characters, if it happens at all. It's not something your party of level 17 adventurers should be able to do. FFS, NWN2 had a cap at level 20, precisely because Epic levels start at 21, and they weren't interested in making content for those levels.

 

[Malakal]

PLEASE any competent DM would easily exterminate a low-mid level party fighting an adult dragon. Even a high level one if its not very minmaxed. Those creatures are spellcasters too, remember.

And in NWN you solo with one companion TWO at the same time, then you do the same in NWN2 and SoZ. YAWN, dragons? More like wyrmlings.

 

[Xor]

Pretty much. NWN2 had you kill 2 dragons at the same time, after that I was like "Welp!"

Are you talking about the big Red in the OC or the two blacks in SoZ?

I'm talking about the two blacks that you kill in order to destroy the crystal heart.

Dragons -- at least in the Forgotten Realms setting -- are supposed to be insanely dangerous creatures, impossible to beat by all but the strongest of parties.

Depends on the dragon and the wisdom of the those fighting it.

Dragon encounters are no joke, they're supposed to be difficult, unless you're fighting some kind of retarded teenager dragon or something.

The point is, fighting two black dragons is a task for epic level characters, if it happens at all. It's not something your party of level 17 adventurers should be able to do. FFS, NWN2 had a cap at level 20, precisely because Epic levels start at 21, and they weren't interested in making content for those levels.

That largely depends on who you're playing with. I played with a group once who were able to take a great wyrm black dragon, 2 balors, and several mid CR demons in a single straight up fight on their home turf. At that point we were level 17-18 IIRC. We then proceeded to kill the demon queen of shadows who was like CR36 or something stupid, although that was probably way higher than it should have been.

In other games we'd die to a stiff breeze (or, in one memorable case, an orc critting one character twice in a row with falcheons). It really depends on who's running and who you're playing with.

Anyway the dragons at the crystal heart were never a difficult fight for me. I don't think they're particularly old, and they don't really prebuff or anything, making the fight relatively simple.

 

[Shannow]

And in NWN you solo without a companion.

Fixed. And after that fight the fucking elves I rescued called my 11 charisma char ugly to his face. Must be the worst case of Bio-writing I can remember. (Thank you, Memory. If you weren't as punctured as a sieve I'd have to call a Jihad on Bio for rotten writing )

 

[roll-a-die]

Total bullshit = last two posts

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Dragons -- at least in the Forgotten Realms setting -- are supposed to be insanely dangerous creatures, impossible to beat by all but the strongest of parties. As an analogy, if you would ever suggest to the player of the pen and paper version that your DM let you fight two dragons at the same time, and you beat them both . . . well, you'd get told that your DM was a retard and that you weren't playing the game right. And the person thus hurting your feelings would be absolutely correct. Killing a dragon is supposed to be a monumental achievement, having you fight two of them and winning is just completely jumping the fucking shark.

Considering I've had monks in my 3.5 groups that dealt 150-600 non-normal damage 5 times a round, I think I can be justified in sending 4 gods and 17 dragons against them, unfortunately they won, fuckers. After that I basically told them that they got written out of existence for being too powerful, all their actions had been reversed, and the universe would no longer allow so horrendously powerful of beings within it, plot fiat, but whatever. Then there was my second edition campaign where I ruled that my fae fire(I think that was the ability, basically made fire that ate magic) mage player's magic ate the universe, the end. My players have a history of power gaming, I have a habit of letting them get to the point where nothing is suitably epic for them, VtM game is going well though.

 

[Malakal]

Total bullshit = last two posts

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Dragons -- at least in the Forgotten Realms setting -- are supposed to be insanely dangerous creatures, impossible to beat by all but the strongest of parties. As an analogy, if you would ever suggest to the player of the pen and paper version that your DM let you fight two dragons at the same time, and you beat them both . . . well, you'd get told that your DM was a retard and that you weren't playing the game right. And the person thus hurting your feelings would be absolutely correct. Killing a dragon is supposed to be a monumental achievement, having you fight two of them and winning is just completely jumping the fucking shark.

Considering I've had monks in my 3.5 groups that dealt 150-600 non-normal damage 5 times a round, I think I can be justified in sending 4 gods and 17 dragons against them, unfortunately they won, fuckers. After that I basically told them that they got written out of existence for being too powerful, all their actions had been reversed, and the universe would no longer allow so horrendously powerful of beings within it, plot fiat, but whatever. Then there was my second edition campaign where I ruled that my fae fire(I think that was the ability, basically made fire that ate magic) mage player's magic ate the universe, the end. My players have a history of power gaming, I have a habit of letting them get to the point where nothing is suitably epic for them, VtM game is going well though.

Rock falls everyone dies then? Somehow I doubt its possible for monks to get constant damage in the 150-600 range, even with power attack. You fucked up calculations.

 

[roll-a-die]

Total bullshit = last two posts

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Dragons -- at least in the Forgotten Realms setting -- are supposed to be insanely dangerous creatures, impossible to beat by all but the strongest of parties. As an analogy, if you would ever suggest to the player of the pen and paper version that your DM let you fight two dragons at the same time, and you beat them both . . . well, you'd get told that your DM was a retard and that you weren't playing the game right. And the person thus hurting your feelings would be absolutely correct. Killing a dragon is supposed to be a monumental achievement, having you fight two of them and winning is just completely jumping the fucking shark.

Considering I've had monks in my 3.5 groups that dealt 150-600 non-normal damage 5 times a round, I think I can be justified in sending 4 gods and 17 dragons against them, unfortunately they won, fuckers. After that I basically told them that they got written out of existence for being too powerful, all their actions had been reversed, and the universe would no longer allow so horrendously powerful of beings within it, plot fiat, but whatever. Then there was my second edition campaign where I ruled that my fae fire(I think that was the ability, basically made fire that ate magic) mage player's magic ate the universe, the end. My players have a history of power gaming, I have a habit of letting them get to the point where nothing is suitably epic for them, VtM game is going well though.

Rock falls everyone dies then? Somehow I doubt its possible for monks to get constant damage in the 150-600 range, even with power attack. You fucked up calculations.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ultimate_M ... r_Build%29

Build is similar to what he was using, lost his actual sheet in a fire 2 houses back.

Example of what combat looked like for him,

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ultimate_M ... imate_Monk

EDIT: Now imagine designing encounters and adventures for 5 of those at the same time.

 

[Malakal]

So psionic bullshit? Sure man thats a monk. Not.

Simple 'fuck you players' encounter by yours truly: party is in a medium sized tunnel (goodbye size enhancers) and is attacked by burrowing worms striking in from the walls (using surprise, your party has tremor sense? they better). Worms are covered in acidic slime (grapple that mister), have high natural AC (you better not waste that attack bonus or you will hit shit) and paralyse/stun the party with their attacks. Or drain INT.
Charging? Nope, no place. Flying? LOL.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Yeah, if the players are going to powergame with bloated splatbooks never meant to be used together, do the same back at them. Have the monk run into a shambling mound with 9 billion hp (It's secretly a druid tee-hee). Have him fight a dragon shapeshifted into an invisible gnat in a room filled with fog popping in and out of Rope Trick and reading scrolls of Time Stop and chain summoning Solars.

DMs have all the metagame knowledge of players and more. If the players insist on being able to make some broken optimized build, kill them off with PunPun and hand them a Nethack tombstone printout saying the were killed by a kobold.

Deathtraps work too, but are so easy it feels like cheating. Antimagicfield + Cave in will kill damn near anyone.

Oh, and take a page from video games: the enemies of the players have no need for self preservation or any thought for the future. It's ok if the first 9 guys use their life savings and their very lives to weaken the party's defenses so the 10th guy can kill them. Disjunction scroll spam ftw! If the players can find a magic item with persisted great mighty wallop, the enemies can sure find some scrolls of a vanilla spell.

 

[Volourn]

"Dragons -- at least in the Forgotten Realms setting -- are supposed to be insanely dangerous creatures, impossible to beat by all but the strongest of parties."

Not all dragons are created equal.

And, L0L, I love the stories about the DMs who punish players for having 'overpwoered' chaarcetrs since when players have overpowered characters its 100% the DM's fault. LMFAO

Only poor DMs design things as to give the player no chance or make things too easy. The DMs job is to design CHALLENGES for the players not rape them or let rape the world.

FFS Shitty DMs are shitty DMs.

 

[Malakal]

No Volourn, some players simply are powergamers and if not contained they will replace all other players and destroy campaigns. This situation is quite better because the whole party asked for rape.

 

[King Crispy]

It's funny how Volourn completely skipped over my reply.

 

[Volourn]

Feeling left out? L0L

It's silly to debate your overpowered stupidity. That list you gave proves my point. Majority of that stuff is junk.

R00fles!

 

[King Crispy]

Very weak. C'mon, Volly, don't really wanna play?

You assert that NWN isn't overpowered and isn't Monty Haul in its nature. The list speaks for itself; Gygax was rolling in his grave when the NWN series came out since it rapes the hell out of his original vision, in many ways. It got worse in that fashion as it continued on to the point where you're finding +5 swords and thousands of gold pieces sitting around in barrels.

Now, you can go ahead and like the NWN games. Hell, I did a little, too. But if you want to argue that they are in any way still true to the spirit of Dungeons and Dragons then you're far more lost than I ever thought, dear Princess.

r00fle that.

 

[Shannow]

Very weak. C'mon, Volly, don't really wanna play?

You assert that NWN isn't overpowered and isn't Monty Haul in its nature. The list speaks for itself; Gygax was rolling in his grave when the NWN series came out since it rapes the hell out of his original vision, in many ways. It got worse in that fashion as it continued on to the point where you're finding +5 swords and thousands of gold pieces sitting around in barrels.

Now, you can go ahead and like the NWN games. Hell, I did a little, too. But if you want to argue that they are in any way still true to the spirit of Dungeons and Dragons then you're far more lost than I ever thought, dear Princess.

r00fle that.

I'll play in Volly's stead. "Overpowered" is in the eye of the beholder,
If you look at the previous links, PunPun, other PnP stuff or even stuff you can do in Incursion, the NWNs are tame in comparison.
But of course, powergaming possibilities and monty-haul in other games is beside the point, since the question was "What is overpowered in the NWNs?". And here Volly is quite full of shit, since there are clearly some things that are "overpowered".
I'll add monk/druid/shifter in NWN (though you'd probably not reach dragon-form in a normal play-through).

 

[King Crispy]

If you want to restrict the discussion to NWN (not) being overpowered with respect to itself and its contemporary games, with respect to the abomination that D&D has become since 2nd Edition, and to what today's teenage consoletard constituency feels about it then I guess you're right, but we also have to take something like ToEE into account. Even it had some horribly overpowered items but it was far, far tamer (and a much better game) than any of the NWN's.

Bah, Volly's an idiot as usual. Don't really know why I'm bothering.

 

[Nickless]

Sorcerers.

Fixed.

Once you hit about level 12 or so Warlocks in NWN2 become overpowered too.

Sorry, but this is bullshit, in regards to both Warlocks and Sorcerers. Sorcerers comparative to wizards are terrible, warlocks are just terrible. The damage a warlock dishes out a round is piss-poor compared to a fighter or rogue at almost any level, and their draining attacks are pathetic compared to anything a spellcaster can dish out. Their only advantage never comes into play in NWN2, that being the ability to cast spells indefinitely without resting (Although MotB did mitigate this slightly). They don't fulfill a niche, they're just bad.

Sorcerers suck compared to wizards because 1. Lack of spell selection forces them to specialise for one specific encounter type/enemy at low to medium levels which can make them pathetically weak against certain enemies. 2. Sorcerers are behind wizards in spell-progression in such a way that the extra spells per day they can cast due to their class is more than mitigated by the wizard casting higher level spells than them half the time. I don't need a third point. (Although I should quickly add that after they catch up to wizards at like, 17th level or whatever with 9th level spells, they do start to stand on a more equal footing, since they are no longer being trumped.)

Just about any spellcaster (both divine and arcane) is absurdly powerful, really. I remember in NWN1 that playing a melee-oriented Sorcerer actually made a more powerful warrior than a straight fighter thanks to the crazy stuff you could do with spells (Greater Stoneskin being a good example; Premonition in NWN2 makes it even more absurd). Then there's the absolutely crazy stuff like Meteor Shower...

This can be the case if you (foolishly) play a melee character without keeping and using the potion/consumables you find/buy. Wizard also needs like 11 rounds to buff while the fighter is pounding at him.

Clerics though... Clerics are just OP.

 

[Volourn]

First off, I never said that NWN didn't have anything overpwoered in it. In fact, in my first post of this thread, i even mentioned some. Are you gusy fuckin' retarted?

Volourn: "Gives exmaple of some over powered stuff in NWN but also points stuff that aren't overpowered."

Codex: "Volourn says NWN isn't overpowered"

Logical Common Sense: "Codex is being drunk again."


"You assert that NWN isn't overpowered and isn't Monty Haul in its nature."

Bullshitz. NWN is monty haul. But we were talking about overpowered items. I pointed out some of the examples aren't overpoweredd. Seriously, bracers of defence +1 is overpowered? Are you FUCKIN' kiddin' me?


" The list speaks for itself; Gygax was rolling in his grave when the NWN series came out since it rapes the hell out of his original vision, in many ways. It got worse in that fashion as it continued on to the point where you're finding +5 swords and thousands of gold pieces sitting around in barrels."

Gygax, and his D&D was about overpwoered munchkinism.

r00fle that.

Read any D&D manual, pnp module (made by Gygax or any other dink) and you'll see what i mean.

NWN is no different than any othe rgame based on D&D.

Fuckin' TOEE lets you up to level 10 yet by end of game your entire party has a stock of +3 or +2 weapons not mention a host of other uber items.

GB games, IE games, or any other is no different.

You want to see something not overpwoered play with me as DM.

One pnp campaign I had, we played for nearly 2 years, and the highest level character was level 11/11 and we had maybe a couple of items that were equivelant to a +2 or a +3.

LMFAO

You don't know what you don't know.


P.S. "Even it had some horribly overpowered items but it was far, far tamer (and a much better game) than any of the NWN's."

R U FUCKKIN ON CRACK!?!

 

[Sceptic]

The damage a warlock dishes out a round is piss-poor compared to a fighter or rogue at almost any level

I don't remember any fighter or rogue build that could dish out over 20d6 damage in an area of effect. And that's not even a well optimized Warlock.

Their only advantage never comes into play in NWN2, that being the ability to cast spells indefinitely without resting (Although MotB did mitigate this slightly).

That advantage turns a full-craving run into a cakewalk without ANY kind of abuse of the system, something no other spellcasting class can claim. And you forgot the important aspect of the advantage: it's not so much about not needing to rest, but about NEVER running out in mid-combat. I'd say it's pretty big, especially in places like the final dungeon.

Lack of spell selection forces them to specialise for one specific encounter type/enemy at low to medium levels which can make them pathetically weak against certain enemies

If we're still talking about the NWN's, that's never a problem because they're never pathetically weak againt anyone. Wizards, OTOH, are completely screwed at low levels because their pathetically low number of slots means they either memorize one offensive spell and one buff, or one of each, and in all 3 cases they'll run into trouble very quickly. Even at high level the need to constantly sacrifice those precious slots on spells just in case you end up needing them is painful. This should technically be offset by the small spell selection Sorcerers get, but frankly I always end up picking spells that I never use with a Sorcerer because there are so few that are any good at each level.

Sorcerers are behind wizards in spell-progression

They're one level behind. One. Never been a problem for me, and more than offset by being able to cast spells more frequently. Not to mention that when they DO catch up to Wizards (level 18) they lose their one disadvantage and retain all advantages.

Wizard also needs like 11 rounds to buff while the fighter is pounding at him.

Prebuffing. You need ONE spell as a prebuff (Premonition) to buy you those 10 rounds. And on the 11th round you recast Premonition and suddenly you're suddenly immune to ALL forms of damage AND can kill the fighter with one spell AND can even just hit him in melee, as you've now got just as many hit points and probably do more melee damage. Or you could use half these 10 rounds to cast 5 meteor showers, there won't be much of a fighter left.

Clerics though... Clerics are just OP.

Yes they definitely are.

 

[King Crispy]

Volly, you simply got caught spewing off a retarded one-liner and now you're backpeddling trying to defend it.

To anyone such as you who claims to run a low-magic campaign the NWN games should cause immediate and permanent tooth decay. They are rife with ridiculous amounts of magic items coming out of everyone's ass. You know as well as I do it's because of the spoiled kiddies who demand to find new lewt every time they take out a hobgoblin nowadays. The push to become uber has overriden and eliminated the entire point of playing Dungeons and Dragons: that of enjoying simply playing.

And again, ToEE was a much better Dungeons and Dragons game than any of the NWN's. BETTER. BETTER. BETTER. At least it made an attempt to remain balanced.

 

[King Crispy]

P.S., you pretty badly contradicted yourself with this:

It's silly to debate your overpowered stupidity. That list you gave proves my point. Majority of that stuff is junk.

Is (the stuff in) NWN overpowered or not? Make up your mind!

R00fleitis!

 

[Volourn]

"And again, ToEE was a much better Dungeons and Dragons game than any of the NWN's. BETTER. BETTER. BETTER. At least it made an attempt to remain balanced."

No, no it's not.

"S., you pretty badly contradicted yourself with this:"

No contradiction at all. I don't except video games like NWN or TOEE to match up with my pnp games.


" Is (the stuff in) NWN overpowered or not? Make up your mind! "

My mind is amd eup, and is very clearly posted in this thread. You are just retarted to see it. Idiot.


"Volly, you simply got caught spewing off a retarded one-liner and now you're backpeddling trying to defend it.
"

Only one backpedaling is you as you make up shit as per usual. Like this nonsensical idea that I satted that NWN had no overpowered items in it when I said no such thing. Doofus.

 

[King Crispy]

I'll conclude this fun little exchange by stating that I'm glad to see you finally agreeing with my point.

 

[Volourn]

I'm glad you finally admit you are wrong and just a troll. Now apologize for trying to besmirch me and put words into my post I never did.

Thank you very much, sir.