Editorial Vogel on RPG Difficulty

[Lightknight]

Quite a few JRPGs (Operation Darkness, for example)

Never heard of it.

 

[sheek]

If he can do good hard stuff, he could sell it as DLCs. Simply, make a relatively easy game for masses and hardcore, brutal, but well designed stuff as a separate DLC for the elites.

I would prefer it the other way, the morons or lazy pay for the DLC which modifies the game to make it easier.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

They seem to be the majority, though.

 

[Johannes]

Or he could just sell 1 product for everyone and have a well done difficulty option on it.

 

[ElectricOtter]

Jeff Vogel seriously bewilders me. I mean, when I first played Nethergate, Geneforge, etc. I knew very little about the guy. I though he must have been a p. cool guy IRL. Just to have a few beers with and talk about the golden age of CRPGs. I even hung around the forums some. And then I read his blog. Never before have I seen such a confusing mix of sheer retardedness, wisdom, and excellent game design in one package.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Jeff Vogel seriously bewilders me. I mean, when I first played Nethergate, Geneforge, etc. I knew very little about the guy. I though he must have been a p. cool guy IRL. Just to have a few beers with and talk about the golden age of CRPGs. I even hung around the forums some. And then I read his blog. Never before have I seen such a confusing mix of sheer retardedness, wisdom, and excellent game design in one package.

I know, and I'm someone who rates the Geneforge series as up there among the great non-indie crpgs. It's like whatever talent he has, he has DESPITE his intentions. He's like a guy who is pretty good at making interesting turn-based C+C multi-path/multi-faction crpgs who would much rather be doing a dumbed down mass-graphics cover-shooter-w/stats-on-rails. Like he sits down to make Mass Effect, loses his concentration halfway through and at the end of the day zones back in going 'oh fuck, I accidentally added in strategic diversity again'.

I suspect he doesn't have any particular love of the indie or oldschool scenes, but just doesn't like the idea of being bottom monkey-boy on a big project, and understands his market enough to know what type of games he has to make for them (i.e. if he makes a game as mainstream as he'd like to, he'd be steamrolled by Bioware/Bethesda).

 

[ElectricOtter]

Jeff Vogel seriously bewilders me. I mean, when I first played Nethergate, Geneforge, etc. I knew very little about the guy. I though he must have been a p. cool guy IRL. Just to have a few beers with and talk about the golden age of CRPGs. I even hung around the forums some. And then I read his blog. Never before have I seen such a confusing mix of sheer retardedness, wisdom, and excellent game design in one package.

I know, and I'm someone who rates the Geneforge series as up there among the great non-indie crpgs. It's like whatever talent he has, he has DESPITE his intentions. He's like a guy who is pretty good at making interesting turn-based C+C multi-path/multi-faction crpgs who would much rather be doing a dumbed down mass-graphics cover-shooter-w/stats-on-rails. Like he sits down to make Mass Effect, loses his concentration halfway through and at the end of the day zones back in going 'oh fuck, I accidentally added in strategic diversity again'.

I suspect he doesn't have any particular love of the indie or oldschool scenes, but just doesn't like the idea of being bottom monkey-boy on a big project, and understands his market enough to know what type of games he has to make for them (i.e. if he makes a game as mainstream as he'd like to, he'd be steamrolled by Bioware/Bethesda).

I think we need to rip half of VD's brain (strategical combat, sensibility, good publicity) out and sew it into Jeff (CnC, writing, and drive). We'd have a indie CRPG automaton. Geneforge of Decadence would be out in 1 year, tops.

 

[Johannes]

I started with Avernum 6 (only demo now) but even on the highest difficulty this isn't very hard. Only had real trouble (more reload than 1) in 2 fights, the crypt wight and the multiplying slime, both which could've been easily left for later. While netting much more consumables than I'm using too.

The combat system itself is pretty nice except healing seems way too easy, give everyone 1 level in preist spells and you can heal faster than the enemy deals damage most of the time. On the other hand enemies don't tend to use healing spells/potions, but tougher enemies have 5x my hp to compensate... And all this has the problem that battles involve too much of just repetitive attacking and healing, they should be shorter or more varied.
The first aid skill on the other hand makes resource management in a dungeon much easier, though it's better this way so you'll dare to spare mana for other spells than healing, and make the battles go faster.

But the question is, does it get better (ie. harder in this case) as I progress through the game? My trait choices might play a part though, since I picked the ones that give buffs but reduce xp gain. Party itself is good but not completely fully optimized (I've got 3 humans), and 1 guy's just concentrated almost fully on improving tool use till now.

Overall the game is pretty fun, lots to explore and party/loot management gives a lot of options, but if the combat doesn't offer proper challenge it all feels ultimately somewhat pointless.

 

[Amazing Waloo]

I know, and I'm someone who rates the Geneforge series as up there among the great non-indie crpgs. It's like whatever talent he has, he has DESPITE his intentions. He's like a guy who is pretty good at making interesting turn-based C+C multi-path/multi-faction crpgs who would much rather be doing a dumbed down mass-graphics cover-shooter-w/stats-on-rails. Like he sits down to make Mass Effect, loses his concentration halfway through and at the end of the day zones back in going 'oh fuck, I accidentally added in strategic diversity again'.

So it doesn't occur to anyone he could just be lying?

Since almost all the mainstream dev blogging is a pack of lies to justify how awesome the latest dumbing down is I don't see why he should be held to a higher standard.

 

[mondblut]

He is just pragmatic. And is probably bored of RPGs to tears after making 20+ of them in a span of 15 years. I quite understand him, if not always agree.

 

[Gondolin]

I think we need to rip half of VD's brain (strategical combat, sensibility, good publicity) out and sew it into Jeff (CnC, writing, and drive). We'd have a indie CRPG automaton. Geneforge of Decadence would be out in 1 year, tops.

Awesome! :D

I'd totally buy The Geneforge of Decadence.

 

[Johannes]

He is just pragmatic. And is probably bored of RPGs to tears after making 20+ of them in a span of 15 years. I quite understand him, if not always agree.

Sure he's bored of making them, and makes them to sell copies first and foremost. But if he was really bored of the genre itself would he play Dragon Age and whatever other crap he talks about in his blog?

 

[mondblut]

Sure he's bored of making them, and makes them to sell copies first and foremost. But if he was really bored of the genre itself would he play Dragon Age and whatever other crap he talks about in his blog?

"AAA titles" are a genre unto its own, having long transcended genre niches, that's what makes them mainstream, hey. They are essentially casual games, only with higher production values. So, there is absolutely no reason for him not to play DA in between Assassin's Creed and Call of Duty or something. In this sense DA or Oblivion are not "RPGs", they are simply "blockbusters".

Now, if he would play KOTC or Natuk to hell and back and dedicated series of blogposts to them - *that* would be surprising.