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Mastermind

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dextermorgan said:
Admittedly it did have upsides - namely armorer and acrobatics skills were implemented better, you could poison weapons and schedules, even half-assed ones, beat no schedules.

I tired to roleplay assassin alchemist. I collected a bunch of ingredients, cooked up a ton of potions and leveled up a few times in the process. Went out and had my ass handed to me by some level-uspcaled monster. No problem, I thought, I'll just use this uber poison I made to poison the fucker dead. Several reloads and experiments with poisons/attribute enhancing potions later it became clear that my superior skill in alchemy was no match for level scaling.

At which point I uninstalled the game and never played again.

Apparently your intellect wasn't a match for level scaling either. :smug:
 

Micmu

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dextermorgan said:
I tired to roleplay assassin alchemist. I collected a bunch of ingredients, cooked up a ton of potions and leveled up a few times in the process. Went out and had my ass handed to me by some level-uspcaled monster. No problem, I thought, I'll just use this uber poison I made to poison the fucker dead. Several reloads and experiments with poisons/attribute enhancing potions later it became clear that my superior skill in alchemy was no match for level scaling.
You better e-mail this to bethesda, quickly, before it is too late. Clearly, alchemy did not work in previous games and was lame and nobody used it; they should cut it from that Skyway thing to improve it. :M
 
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DraQ said:
And here it will still be some unholy hybrid involving skills and perks. With no to-hit rolls determining misses and bethesda's recent* lack of creativity it means that retarded damage scaler (I'm Ingmar The Barbarian, I look like pincushion, but I feel fine, the guy who hit me twenty times from half a mile away was a lousy marksman) will likely make a come back.

>>come back

>>implying it ever went away in the first place


Come on, is that what we're bitching about now? That "retarded damage scaler" is present in roughly 95%* of the games where the character doesn't die in one hit. It was only lulsy in Oblivion because they decided to show what would happen if these arrows stuck to your body instead of disappearing via videogame magic.

*accurate estimative, do not challenge the estimative
 

dextermorgan

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DraQ said:
dextermorgan said:
Admittedly it did have upsides - namely armorer and acrobatics skills were implemented better, you could poison weapons and schedules, even half-assed ones, beat no schedules.

I tired to roleplay assassin alchemist. I collected a bunch of ingredients, cooked up a ton of potions and leveled up a few times in the process. Went out and had my ass handed to me by some level-uspcaled monster. No problem, I thought, I'll just use this uber poison I made to poison the fucker dead. Several reloads and experiments with poisons/attribute enhancing potions later it became clear that my superior skill in alchemy was no match for level scaling.

At which point I uninstalled the game and never played again.

This was covered by "other than that" part of my post.

The game is terribad.

The point was that adding poisoned weapons is hardly an upside if it doesn't really function in-game.

Mastermind said:
Apparently your intellect wasn't a match for level scaling either. :smug:

Apparently your ability to perceive reality is severely hampered by the fact that you're posting from inside Todd's ass.

micmu said:
You better e-mail this to bethesda, quickly, before it is too late. Clearly, alchemy did not work in previous games and was lame and nobody used it; they should cut it from that Skyway thing to improve it. :M

Clearly.

:roll:
 

DraQ

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Clockwork Knight said:
Come on, is that what we're bitching about now? That "retarded damage scaler" is present in roughly 95%* of the games where the character doesn't die in one hit.
Really now?

Maybe it's just that I don't play shit games too often or for too long, but I can't recall any where damage scaler would be the primary or sole factor determining impracticality of using a weapon of given type at hilariously low skill levels.

Getting extra 25% damage after mastering skill is acceptable, exclusively Karach based weaponry tied to one's skill level is not.
 

Mastermind

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dextermorgan said:
The point was that adding poisoned weapons is hardly an upside if it doesn't really function in-game.

It does function. Poison is one of the most effective damage dealers in the game. It's why I mocked your intellect. If you can't deal with the level scaling even when focusing on poison, it's not the game that's the problem.
 

dextermorgan

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Mastermind said:
It does function. Poison is one of the most effective damage dealers in the game.

It's why I mocked your intellect. If you can't deal with the level scaling even when focusing on poison, it's not the game that's the problem.

Oh I'm sure that poison is very effective. Unless you make the cardinal mistake of tagging alchemy. Because you don't want that. Because it breaks the game. That you're trying to play as a poisoner.

As for "mockery", there's an old saying about one-legged men and ass kicking contests. Look it up.
 

Mastermind

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dextermorgan said:
Oh I'm sure that poison is very effective. Unless you make the cardinal mistake of tagging alchemy.

I always tag alchemy. It's one of the most effective and useful skills in the game.

As for "mockery", there's an old saying about one-legged men and ass kicking contests. Look it up.

I now concede that it was not so much mockery as it was a documentary. :smug:
 

Dionysus

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DraQ said:
Clockwork Knight said:
Come on, is that what we're bitching about now? That "retarded damage scaler" is present in roughly 95%* of the games where the character doesn't die in one hit.
Really now?

Maybe it's just that I don't play shit games too often or for too long, but I can't recall any where damage scaler would be the primary or sole factor determining impracticality of using a weapon of given type at hilariously low skill levels.

Getting extra 25% damage after mastering skill is acceptable, exclusively Karach based weaponry tied to one's skill level is not.
It's pretty common for melee weapons in ARPGs, including non-shit games like Deus Ex. They probably shouldn't have used it exclusively for bows in TES IV, but the bigger problem was that they allowed unmodified magic damage.
 

DraQ

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Dionysus said:
DraQ said:
Clockwork Knight said:
Come on, is that what we're bitching about now? That "retarded damage scaler" is present in roughly 95%* of the games where the character doesn't die in one hit.
Really now?

Maybe it's just that I don't play shit games too often or for too long, but I can't recall any where damage scaler would be the primary or sole factor determining impracticality of using a weapon of given type at hilariously low skill levels.

Getting extra 25% damage after mastering skill is acceptable, exclusively Karach based weaponry tied to one's skill level is not.
It's pretty common for melee weapons in ARPGs, including non-shit games like Deus Ex.
Bonus? Yes.

Karach weapons? Fuckno.

If I had the respective weapon skill at 'untrained' in DX, and picked a pistol or a rifle, then it was still lethal - headshots killed people even at untrained and other hits caused significant damage. Bonus was just that - a bonus, an icing on the cake for skilled users, but not a limiting factor - the limiting factors were the reticle spread, reticle contraction rate, shaking in zoomed in mode, and recoil as they prevented effective use of given weapon in anything resembling dynamic combat.

Melee wasn't terribly balanced in DX, so you could use stuff like prod, baton or Dragon Tooth effectively with no training at all but it's better than the alternative - slashing someone through the neck with a fucking NEB only to have him laugh it off with "lol you're not skilled enough - I've cut myself worse while shaving".
 

Stalin

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Mastermind said:
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/episode-156-invisible-walls/713172

Skip to 12 minutes in and rage.













:troll: Problem codex?
Even I can't get through it without bursting into flames and I don't consider myself one of you people.


you're a moron and an amateur troll: the guy says he prefers mass effect style dialogue which basically cancels any cred he might have
 

Dionysus

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DraQ said:
Bonus? Yes.

Karach weapons? Fuckno.

If I had the respective weapon skill at 'untrained' in DX, and picked a pistol or a rifle, then it was still lethal - headshots killed people even at untrained and other hits caused significant damage. Bonus was just that - a bonus, an icing on the cake for skilled users, but not a limiting factor - the limiting factors were the reticle spread, reticle contraction rate, shaking in zoomed in mode, and recoil as they prevented effective use of given weapon in anything resembling dynamic combat.

Melee wasn't terribly balanced in DX, so you could use stuff like prod, baton or Dragon Tooth effectively with no training at all but it's better than the alternative - slashing someone through the neck with a fucking NEB only to have him laugh it off with "lol you're not skilled enough - I've cut myself worse while shaving".
I'm just saying that it's common for stats to modify melee damage rather than accuracy. The looking glass guys dispensed with melee dice-rolls in the 90s, and most followed suit.

For Bethesda, they actually did mix it up in Fallout 3 (for ranged weapons), and maybe TES V will include some accuracy mods. They would just need to throw in a spread variable. Either way, that stuff is mostly cosmetic as long as they fix the magic damage problem.
 

Mastermind

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Stalin said:
you're a moron and an amateur troll: the guy says he prefers mass effect style dialogue which basically cancels any cred he might have

Because it's crystal clear from my post that I linked that video to endorse him and his opinion rather than to rage/mock at inanity like wondering about Skyrim's "accessibility" over and over and over. :lol:

Who the hell finds Oblivion inaccessible anyway? I suspect it's the same type of person who thinks alchemy is underpowered. :troll:

Both you and draq are a pair of dumbass motherfuckers. This isn't the type of stupidity you get from being born with an extra chromosome or catching a flying iron with your skull either. No, it's the type that's cultivated through years of honing and practice. It takes real effort and guts to master any skill to this level, and for that I applaud you both. :thumbsup:
 

Smiffy

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Once they got their hands on Fallout Bethesda discovered how totally awesome it is to get a perk every odd or so level-up. So they made an RPG system consisting of perks, perks and perks and nothing much else. And why not? Perks are great!

Then some of the old-timers remembered how totally awesome it was to fight Firkraag the Fearsome Dragon in BG2. So they put in a gazillion of dragons to fight. And why not? Fighting dragons, man, dragons!!

Some time later some guys from the MMO section came over and told them how totally awesome it is to get buffs and stuffs and how the kids really dig that and shit. So they put 2 and 2 together and now you get real cool shit when killing dragons and shit!

They already knew from past experiences how, like, totally awesome you feel when you keep on killing and killing and killing and killing and killing and wherever you go whatever you do nothing can really stop you cause you're a, like, totally awesome killing-machine!!! So level-scaling is in! Only this time much less daft more awesome than the last time! Yeaah!!

And of course they scrap the attributes. It's, like, numbers, you know? Numbers, numbers, numbers. Must have a fucking Excel fetish to want that much numbers in a game! In a game duh!

This is called the Miniscule Orgasm Approach. They include everything that give the players tiny, tiny orgasms as frequently as possible and throw everything else out. I really don't see what's wrong with that.
 

dextermorgan

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Mastermind said:
I always tag alchemy. It's one of the most effective and useful skills in the game.
The only way to prevent Alchemy from breaking your game when selected as a major skill is to either severely limit its usage or use mods. Which is something I'm sure you were aware of all along, having apparently enjoyed multiple replays of that fine game.

Mastermind said:
I now concede that it was not so much mockery as it was a documentary. :smug:
Lame.
 

Mastermind

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dextermorgan said:
Mastermind said:
I always tag alchemy. It's one of the most effective and useful skills in the game.
The only way to prevent Alchemy from breaking your game when selected as a major skill is to either severely limit its usage or use mods. Which is something I'm sure you were aware of all along, having apparently enjoyed multiple replays of that fine game.

Bullshit. You can finish the entire game with alchemy as a major skill using nothing but that and a weapon to apply poison with. Though not nearly to the same extent as morrowind, there are many ways to skin a cat in Oblivion.
 

dextermorgan

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Mastermind said:
Bullshit. You can finish the entire game with alchemy as a major skill using nothing but that and a weapon to apply poison with. Though not nearly to the same extent as morrowind, there are many ways to skin a cat in Oblivion.

You're full of shit, as always. Having alchemy in your majors will cause you to level up if you do a major bout of potion-making and completely break the game because the buffs/poison damage from potions your supposedly superior skill allows you to make becomes completely useless against scaled monsters.

Stop lying through your teeth.
 

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