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Diablo III: Runestones.

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,616
MMXI said:
I haven't read this thread and I haven't read anything about Diablo III's character customisation system, but I just wanted to chime in by saying that Diablo II's skill tree system was absolutely fucking shit.

Why have a skill trees where you can put 20 points into each skill? That's just under 20% of the total skills you'll ever get in the game (110 if I remember correctly) to max out a skill. Now, it might not suck if you could actually comfortably play as a "jack of all trades, master of none" type character, but Diablo II is all about maxing out the few skills you want to use then spamming them like mad. Therefore its skill tree system was just completely retarded. You end up with 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 20, 20 in a tree. It's never advantageous to put anything between 1 and 20 in a skill. Retarded.

So basically, how's Diablo III looking, guys?

:rpgcodex:
Not completely true. Some abilities are worth putting a few points in, but 20 would be a waste.

Examples from just the Necromancer:
-Amplify Damage
-Decrepify
-Revive
 

J1M

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Overweight Manatee said:
Castanova said:
Mastermind said:
Out of game knowledge = knowledge you acquired out of game. It doesn't mean the knowledge itself exists apart from the game. It's the difference between experimenting with the game yourself to figure out optimal solutions and just getting that knowledge off someone else.

This is not true, at all. Metagaming is making an in-game decision based on the fact that you are playing a game. In order to metagame, it is generally assumed that you have to have experience as a gamer. An example of metagaming would be this thought process: "the path to the left looks like the obvious place to go, therefore it'll lead to a locked door, therefore I'll take the path to the right and get the key immediately to avoid backtracking later."

Never heard the term used like this specifically in regards to video games. Most of the time its assumed you think like this, and metagaming is generally thought to be thinking more than you should be. But I suppose it works, though its one which every game has so it doesn't count in any game's favour specifically. Its also a fairly weak example that confers much less gameplay benefit.
No, that is what you thought it meant. It is not remotely close to the definition of the word.

Before you decide to argue this point further, consider how egregiously constructed that bolded sentence is.
 
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J1M said:
MMXI said:
I haven't read this thread and I haven't read anything about Diablo III's character customisation system, but I just wanted to chime in by saying that Diablo II's skill tree system was absolutely fucking shit.

Why have a skill trees where you can put 20 points into each skill? That's just under 20% of the total skills you'll ever get in the game (110 if I remember correctly) to max out a skill. Now, it might not suck if you could actually comfortably play as a "jack of all trades, master of none" type character, but Diablo II is all about maxing out the few skills you want to use then spamming them like mad. Therefore its skill tree system was just completely retarded. You end up with 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 20, 20 in a tree. It's never advantageous to put anything between 1 and 20 in a skill. Retarded.

So basically, how's Diablo III looking, guys?

:rpgcodex:
Not completely true. Some abilities are worth putting a few points in, but 20 would be a waste.

Examples from just the Necromancer:
-Amplify Damage
-Decrepify
-Revive
Static Shield, Teleport as well.

These are exceptions to the rule however.

Did I read people putting points into energy? What..?
 

MMXI

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Seriously? You guys put more than one point into static field, teleport, amplify damage, decrepify, revive? What a waste. You get them to a high enough level purely from +skill items. More than 1 point is a waste. Also, putting points into energy is a waste. You get plenty of mana regeneration and mana boosts from items to allow you to spam spells non-stop.
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
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Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
i thought there's some kind of synergic bonuses in one of th latest patch to the skills trees, like having a lower tier skill will increase the effectiveness of higher tier skill etc.

It was very miniscule in terms of added bonus, but it's there. Paladin aura is a classic example of shit really.
 

MMXI

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Synergies were introduced in 1.10. And they weren't minuscule bonuses. They were huge. However, +skill bonuses from items didn't affect synergies and so it was often best to put 20 points into skills you never actually use just to get the best out of the skill you use the most. So from 5 maxed out abilities that you switch between during gameplay to 1, 2 or at a stretch 3 maxed out abilities that you switch between during gameplay. Synergies were a nice idea, but they ended up making the game worse due to the retarded 20-point-per-skill skill tree.
 
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MMXI said:
Seriously? You guys put more than one point into static field, teleport, amplify damage, decrepify, revive? What a waste. You get them to a high enough level purely from +skill items. More than 1 point is a waste. Also, putting points into energy is a waste. You get plenty of mana regeneration and mana boosts from items to allow you to spam spells non-stop.
We were discussing non-maxed skills.

SoJ's make energy stats completely worthless.
 

MMXI

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The Ninth Circle said:
MMXI said:
Seriously? You guys put more than one point into static field, teleport, amplify damage, decrepify, revive? What a waste. You get them to a high enough level purely from +skill items. More than 1 point is a waste. Also, putting points into energy is a waste. You get plenty of mana regeneration and mana boosts from items to allow you to spam spells non-stop.
We were discussing non-maxed skills.
No we weren't. We were discussing skills that are worth putting more than 1 point but less than 20 points into. Personally, I can't think of any.

The Ninth Circle said:
SoJ's make energy stats completely worthless.
Yes. And frostburn gauntlets.
 
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MMXI said:
The Ninth Circle said:
MMXI said:
Seriously? You guys put more than one point into static field, teleport, amplify damage, decrepify, revive? What a waste. You get them to a high enough level purely from +skill items. More than 1 point is a waste. Also, putting points into energy is a waste. You get plenty of mana regeneration and mana boosts from items to allow you to spam spells non-stop.
We were discussing non-maxed skills.
No we weren't. We were discussing skills that are worth putting more than 1 point but less than 20 points into. Personally, I can't think of any.

The Ninth Circle said:
SoJ's make energy stats completely worthless.
Yes. And frostburn gauntlets.
Eh, I misread him. Claymancers run out of things to dump points into anyway. I don't see the problem with spending those extra points in CE or something of that nature.

Holy Shield is the only that doesn't need a full 20. Just enough for max block.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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Frost based Zealadin with a mace and a +3 paladin skills was my fucking favorite. I remember I did with a mid level character around 1800 damage in cold in melee, with some fucking psycho radius as well. Fucking nasty, could just walk and enemies would drop dead. God you could overpower a character. Also that one special flanged mace that did crushing blow, the unique one, came in so fucking handy against bosses.
 

Kraszu

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The Ninth Circle said:
Did I read people putting points into energy? What..?

It is worth to put points energy if you play normally, aka without cheating, and without having most of the game suck because you don't have enough mana.

As for the skill where you put between 1 and 20 corpse explosion, but yeah the system did suck overall there will be smaller cup of 5, 10 ,15 depending on the skill in D3.
 
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Kraszu said:
The Ninth Circle said:
Did I read people putting points into energy? What..?

It is worth to put points energy if you play normally, aka without cheating, and without having most of the game suck because you don't have enough mana.

As for the skill where you put between 1 and 20 corpse explosion, but yeah the system did suck overall there will be smaller cup of 5, 10 ,15 depending on the skill in D3.
What constitutes "cheating"?
 

Kraszu

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The Ninth Circle said:
Kraszu said:
The Ninth Circle said:
Did I read people putting points into energy? What..?

It is worth to put points energy if you play normally, aka without cheating, and without having most of the game suck because you don't have enough mana.

As for the skill where you put between 1 and 20 corpse explosion, but yeah the system did suck overall there will be smaller cup of 5, 10 ,15 depending on the skill in D3.
What constitutes "cheating"?

Using items with character that were not found while playing him, especially if there were found in areas that he doesn't even have access to yet.
 

DraQ

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D2 is pretty shit. No atmosphere, MMO-lite mechanics and escalation of increasingly epic gear (so you end up thinking "WTF is this shit?" when yellow quality gear pops out of some mole, while in D1 you went *fapfapfap* whenever ordinary magical item dropped).

The only upsides are more elaborate items, sockets and the fact that you get to play as a furfag in the expansion. Oh, and necro.

Still D1 is where it's at (although I'm willing to punch anyone claiming it's an RPG to death).
:obviously:











...
Why is this thread in RPG General?
:x
 

Kraszu

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DraQ said:
D2 is pretty shit. No atmosphere, MMO-lite mechanics and escalation of increasingly epic gear (so you end up thinking "WTF is this shit?" when yellow quality gear pops out of some mole, while in D1 you went *fapfapfap* whenever ordinary magical item dropped).

The only upsides are more elaborate items, sockets and the fact that you get to play as a furfag in the expansion. Oh, and necro.

Still D1 is where it's at (although I'm willing to punch anyone claiming it's an RPG to death).
:obviously:

You should try back to hellfire mod for D2, Barbarion was the most balanced char that I had played, the problem with that game through are pretty dull bosses that don't deal enough dmg, and have to much health.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
You're a fucking retard; the only people thinking Diablo 1 was "harder" or had "more rare loot" are those who haven't played it in ages.

And if they have, well, then I can only cite cognitive dissonance as a possible explanation. Bottom line, as always: I am correct and you are not.
 

DraQ

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Jasede said:
You're a fucking retard; the only people thinking Diablo 1 was "harder" or had "more rare loot" are those who haven't played it in ages.

And if they have, well, then I can only cite cognitive dissonance as a possible explanation. Bottom line, as always: I am correct and you are not.

Lolno. It was definitely harder at the beginning when you were still weakass noob who shouldn't steamroll everything (since later you pretty much killed everything before it could wander into the screen, especially with sorcerer) though not necessarily later on, since D2 was built around MMO grindan. It definitely had loot that didn't allow so much pickiness, and it DEFINITELY had much better atmosphere (or any atmosphere).

D2 goes over the top almost right away then keeps going.

Also, apart from rare multiple shooting lightning enchanted monsters (FFFFFUUUUUU-) and some bosses, D2 was balanced around making player relatively safe from sudden death scenarios. You pretty much had to solo everything on Players 8 to ever experience the feeling of "OMG there is a whole level full of rape beyond that door, what should I do???".
 

deuxhero

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There are a few skills with depreciating returns that are worth >1 and <20 (Summon resist I think was one).
 

MMXI

Arcane
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Messages
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But at end-game you could end up with +20 skills from items. One point in a skill would be 21 points. 20 points would be 40. There really aren't any reasons why you'd want between 21 and 40 in those cases. Either a skill is a main ability which you use a lot, or a utility ability that 1 point and +skill items is enough for.

I think 5 per skill would be plenty. Perhaps even varying like talent trees in, say, World of Fagcraft, between 1 and 5. Creating a character in Diablo II is basically about picking 5 skills out of 30 and spending all your levels pumping them to 20. It's just far too basic, even though, technically, it allows for a wide range of numerical possibilities in skill distributions.
 
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DraQ said:
Jasede said:
You're a fucking retard; the only people thinking Diablo 1 was "harder" or had "more rare loot" are those who haven't played it in ages.

And if they have, well, then I can only cite cognitive dissonance as a possible explanation. Bottom line, as always: I am correct and you are not.

Lolno. It was definitely harder at the beginning when you were still weakass noob who shouldn't steamroll everything (since later you pretty much killed everything before it could wander into the screen, especially with sorcerer) though not necessarily later on, since D2 was built around MMO grindan. It definitely had loot that didn't allow so much pickiness, and it DEFINITELY had much better atmosphere (or any atmosphere).

D2 goes over the top almost right away then keeps going.

Also, apart from rare multiple shooting lightning enchanted monsters (FFFFFUUUUUU-) and some bosses, D2 was balanced around making player relatively safe from sudden death scenarios. You pretty much had to solo everything on Players 8 to ever experience the feeling of "OMG there is a whole level full of rape beyond that door, what should I do???".
Go start a new character and face Andariel again. Reaching her in normal play is basically instant death.

Kraszu said:
The Ninth Circle said:
Kraszu said:
The Ninth Circle said:
Did I read people putting points into energy? What..?

It is worth to put points energy if you play normally, aka without cheating, and without having most of the game suck because you don't have enough mana.

As for the skill where you put between 1 and 20 corpse explosion, but yeah the system did suck overall there will be smaller cup of 5, 10 ,15 depending on the skill in D3.
What constitutes "cheating"?

Using items with character that were not found while playing him, especially if there were found in areas that he doesn't even have access to yet.
That's pretty much the point of D2. It is limited across the board so the only redeeming factor is a treasure hunt simulator and MF'ing 'til your heart stops. I wasn't aware there are actually people that don't swap items between characters.
 

Exmit

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but is there gay elf bromance ?
 

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