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Can't decide which is better: Fallout 1 or Fallout 2.
- Thread starter DragoFireheart
- Start date
dextermorgan
Arcane
In one game such things are an exception, in the other they're the rule. Apparently you're having trouble grasping this distinction.Spellcaster said:
Mister Arkham
Scholar
I voted for Fallout 2, but not because I think that it is wholly the better game. Fallout easily beats 2 in terms of impact and story. It's a very tight and well tuned plot that is backed up with some exemplary writing.
But there's something about 2 that's just...different. There's a fair amount of silly crap in it, but the world is broader and more open and because the writers explored the boundaries of their setting a little bit more, it encourages the player to explore the world in more diverse and complicated ways.
I've said before that I came to roleplaying games fairly late. I played a fair spectrum of the genre all through the '90s but I never had the time to really spend with them that I needed. I never really GOT what RPGs were all about with those games. There were games like the Krondor series and Daggerfall and the first Baldur's Gate, where I appreciated the craft and the story...but I never really got from them what the genre was all about. Fallout 2 was the game where it all came together and I really understood, for the first time, what the genre could be. How far ti could go., The sheer scope of possibilities that could be accounted for and embraced. The reactivity that could be allowed through the strength of the writing...
Fallout 2 may be, in parts, a very silly game with a fairly weak main quest, but it is an exceptional roleplaying experience and it is the game that made me understand the genre. So it gets my vote.
But there's something about 2 that's just...different. There's a fair amount of silly crap in it, but the world is broader and more open and because the writers explored the boundaries of their setting a little bit more, it encourages the player to explore the world in more diverse and complicated ways.
I've said before that I came to roleplaying games fairly late. I played a fair spectrum of the genre all through the '90s but I never had the time to really spend with them that I needed. I never really GOT what RPGs were all about with those games. There were games like the Krondor series and Daggerfall and the first Baldur's Gate, where I appreciated the craft and the story...but I never really got from them what the genre was all about. Fallout 2 was the game where it all came together and I really understood, for the first time, what the genre could be. How far ti could go., The sheer scope of possibilities that could be accounted for and embraced. The reactivity that could be allowed through the strength of the writing...
Fallout 2 may be, in parts, a very silly game with a fairly weak main quest, but it is an exceptional roleplaying experience and it is the game that made me understand the genre. So it gets my vote.
Pope Amole
Educated
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2010
- Messages
- 138
1.
While there was more stuff to explore in F2 and I spent much more time on it than I did on F1, in terms of pure quality 1 is much better than 2, just not as big. In sequel, atmosphere and story just don't make any sense and I'm not even talking about obviously ridiculous stuff like talking mutated animals or gloriously working as fluffer or finding a holy hand grenade of Antioch, I'm talking about the very premise of the game and its details which most certainly were not given much thought.
In first part, every location made sense. Every city was more or less fortified (and where it was less there were obvious consequences to that), with sole exception of Necropolis which was too useless to anyone 'xcept ghouls to merit fortification, the distribution of goods in the world made sense (like, best gear being scarce and not so easily accessable) as well as the main quest. In 2 it all is moronic from the very beginning. 80 years is too small of a time for the people to degrade into tribal idjits, I mean, most of the people there should still remember the original Vault Dweller and I'm sure as hell that he wouldn't let everyone to act as a herd of gibbering retards. Finding GECK to prevent starvation is fine and dandy, yet it's impossible to understand why couldn't you just gather enough money to buy lots of food from, say, Klamath or Modoc. At least as an alternative goal, why? Most of the settlements make zero sense. Like, ok, Klamath is a tapper town where dudes with spears hunt for the gecko skins, but what's the use of gecko skins? In real life, outside of luxury-item status fur was absolutely necessary in cold climates, to help you survive the winter, but we're talking about bloody California here and it's not like the lizard skins are good at saving the warmth. It also is not used in leather armor - that one is made of brahmin skin. IIRC, the only time we see anything made of geckos in game is on the Bishop's wife, as a luxury dress, but luxury-trading is way too small business in wasteland to merit so much merits dedicated to it. Not to mention that Klamath is barely protected against assaults when there's tons of giant scorpions, bandits, slavers and cannibalistic tribesmen living on nearby. Den is also ridiculous - there's ton of junkies, but where do they get money for their doses? No, really, apart from the slaver guild, which is obviously closed for them, it's not like much goes on in Den (oh, except moonshining and gambling, but they also can't be your main city income source in postapocaliptic world; well, moonshining - maybe, but you'll need a couple of richer neighbors as your customers), so streets full of junkies are totally out of place. Well, at least Den has "walls", as meager as they are. Modoc makes sense economically, but also suffers from nonexistant defenses - and it lies on a route absolutely annoyingly infested by bandits, so yeah. Also it's really stupid that modoc citizens are able to slaughter slags effortlessly - while every denizen of the wastes is reasonably tough and more or less proficient with arms, else he won't last a day, we're talking about storming the tunnels of enemies here, which, without some serious military equipment and training, just cannot end good for assaulters. Vault City is fine, one of the only well-done places. Well, its laws are kinda moronic, like, banning drugs and booze, but not weapons which allows you to slaughter the whole town without spending much effort, but otherwise there's not many things to complain about. It's well defended, it has relatively high-tech patrols, it uses its own technological advances to its benefit. Everything is good, 'xcept for the raiders. I mean, they say that raiders were able to disable on of the turrets, but the you see those raiders, you see their armour and arms and understand that, in reality, against laser turrets it would'be been a total massacre. Gecko is also fine, no complaints here. That also is so with Broken Hills - uranium ore is important enough to bring the town into prosperity, especially when it is mined by creatures who don't give a damn about a wee bit of radioactivity. The same creatures also provide excellent defense to the city, so yeah, there's also little complaints here. New Reno, on the other hand... I mean, it's a fucking Las Vegas and even in modern times, where most of the countries are much, much more prosperous in comparison to the scarred lands of Fallout, not every one of them has its own Vegas. You just don't see that much of technological and financial progress in the game to allow for a town consisting solely of gamblers, drug dealers, bootleggers, pimps and whores to exist. There's not enough profits for all that, which makes it stupid. Jet as the way of conquering land is a nice touch, though, and pretty realistic too (opiatic wars in China, y'know), but the whole town is way over the top. Redding is also moronic - no walls when they're on the border of region spammed with floaters, aliens, centaurs and similar shit. Yeah, they'd last for, like, five minutes without walls and heavy turrets and whatever. Also, gold as a commodity in wastes - don't make me laugh. It has to be useful or GTFO and gold is obviously infinitely worse than, say, bullets or food or meds. So the town and surrounding conflict is flawed. NCR is decent enough, though the slavers outpost in front of slave-prohibiting republic and a home to slave-hunting rangers is silly. Sure, you're asked to destroy it, but why combat-armoured rangers failed to do this themselves, eh? There's a bunch of leatherjacketed dudes with pistols there, for Christ's sake, not some private army. Finally, San Francisco... Don't even want to talk about it. They sell power armors here, oh yeah. It's not a town, it's a stupid joke.
While there was more stuff to explore in F2 and I spent much more time on it than I did on F1, in terms of pure quality 1 is much better than 2, just not as big. In sequel, atmosphere and story just don't make any sense and I'm not even talking about obviously ridiculous stuff like talking mutated animals or gloriously working as fluffer or finding a holy hand grenade of Antioch, I'm talking about the very premise of the game and its details which most certainly were not given much thought.
In first part, every location made sense. Every city was more or less fortified (and where it was less there were obvious consequences to that), with sole exception of Necropolis which was too useless to anyone 'xcept ghouls to merit fortification, the distribution of goods in the world made sense (like, best gear being scarce and not so easily accessable) as well as the main quest. In 2 it all is moronic from the very beginning. 80 years is too small of a time for the people to degrade into tribal idjits, I mean, most of the people there should still remember the original Vault Dweller and I'm sure as hell that he wouldn't let everyone to act as a herd of gibbering retards. Finding GECK to prevent starvation is fine and dandy, yet it's impossible to understand why couldn't you just gather enough money to buy lots of food from, say, Klamath or Modoc. At least as an alternative goal, why? Most of the settlements make zero sense. Like, ok, Klamath is a tapper town where dudes with spears hunt for the gecko skins, but what's the use of gecko skins? In real life, outside of luxury-item status fur was absolutely necessary in cold climates, to help you survive the winter, but we're talking about bloody California here and it's not like the lizard skins are good at saving the warmth. It also is not used in leather armor - that one is made of brahmin skin. IIRC, the only time we see anything made of geckos in game is on the Bishop's wife, as a luxury dress, but luxury-trading is way too small business in wasteland to merit so much merits dedicated to it. Not to mention that Klamath is barely protected against assaults when there's tons of giant scorpions, bandits, slavers and cannibalistic tribesmen living on nearby. Den is also ridiculous - there's ton of junkies, but where do they get money for their doses? No, really, apart from the slaver guild, which is obviously closed for them, it's not like much goes on in Den (oh, except moonshining and gambling, but they also can't be your main city income source in postapocaliptic world; well, moonshining - maybe, but you'll need a couple of richer neighbors as your customers), so streets full of junkies are totally out of place. Well, at least Den has "walls", as meager as they are. Modoc makes sense economically, but also suffers from nonexistant defenses - and it lies on a route absolutely annoyingly infested by bandits, so yeah. Also it's really stupid that modoc citizens are able to slaughter slags effortlessly - while every denizen of the wastes is reasonably tough and more or less proficient with arms, else he won't last a day, we're talking about storming the tunnels of enemies here, which, without some serious military equipment and training, just cannot end good for assaulters. Vault City is fine, one of the only well-done places. Well, its laws are kinda moronic, like, banning drugs and booze, but not weapons which allows you to slaughter the whole town without spending much effort, but otherwise there's not many things to complain about. It's well defended, it has relatively high-tech patrols, it uses its own technological advances to its benefit. Everything is good, 'xcept for the raiders. I mean, they say that raiders were able to disable on of the turrets, but the you see those raiders, you see their armour and arms and understand that, in reality, against laser turrets it would'be been a total massacre. Gecko is also fine, no complaints here. That also is so with Broken Hills - uranium ore is important enough to bring the town into prosperity, especially when it is mined by creatures who don't give a damn about a wee bit of radioactivity. The same creatures also provide excellent defense to the city, so yeah, there's also little complaints here. New Reno, on the other hand... I mean, it's a fucking Las Vegas and even in modern times, where most of the countries are much, much more prosperous in comparison to the scarred lands of Fallout, not every one of them has its own Vegas. You just don't see that much of technological and financial progress in the game to allow for a town consisting solely of gamblers, drug dealers, bootleggers, pimps and whores to exist. There's not enough profits for all that, which makes it stupid. Jet as the way of conquering land is a nice touch, though, and pretty realistic too (opiatic wars in China, y'know), but the whole town is way over the top. Redding is also moronic - no walls when they're on the border of region spammed with floaters, aliens, centaurs and similar shit. Yeah, they'd last for, like, five minutes without walls and heavy turrets and whatever. Also, gold as a commodity in wastes - don't make me laugh. It has to be useful or GTFO and gold is obviously infinitely worse than, say, bullets or food or meds. So the town and surrounding conflict is flawed. NCR is decent enough, though the slavers outpost in front of slave-prohibiting republic and a home to slave-hunting rangers is silly. Sure, you're asked to destroy it, but why combat-armoured rangers failed to do this themselves, eh? There's a bunch of leatherjacketed dudes with pistols there, for Christ's sake, not some private army. Finally, San Francisco... Don't even want to talk about it. They sell power armors here, oh yeah. It's not a town, it's a stupid joke.
314159
Educated
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2010
- Messages
- 568
Right. F2 was neither here nor there. Not kind of serious and semi-realistic a la F1, and not stupidly over the top and corny a la Wastland (the details escape me for im an old fart but didn't W feature killer bunnies and silly stuff like that)Pope Amole said:
zool
Arcane
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2009
- Messages
- 897
This
But anyway, I prefer Fallout 2 because of this
and also beacuse I loved how Vault City, New Reno and the NCR battle over Redding in FO2. Towns interaction is a big thing for me in RPGs, and I'm often saddened by the lack of it, as each city feels like an independant quests hub rather than a part of a larger gameworld interacting with it.
Spellcaster said:
But anyway, I prefer Fallout 2 because of this
Excidium said:I voted FO2, because of the amount of content and for being my entry in the series. I played the sequel much before I got to play the first one, so the lulziness and pop culture references didn't annoy me.
and also beacuse I loved how Vault City, New Reno and the NCR battle over Redding in FO2. Towns interaction is a big thing for me in RPGs, and I'm often saddened by the lack of it, as each city feels like an independant quests hub rather than a part of a larger gameworld interacting with it.
I love both, but FO2 has much more content, even after cutting out all the silly stuff, so it wins in my book. Not by a large margin, though.
Fallout 1 had some werid economical issues too, as the Brotherhood trading tecnology for food/suplies is a ridiculously short-sighted plan. And the cities fortifications may be beyong the areas you visit, or they keep security with patrols, as they did in The Hub.Pope Amole said:
Also, you are seeing Reno as today's Las Vegas, and that's the mistake. It's really easy to find in poor communities heavy gambling and prostitucion, not because they have lots of money, but because they make a living of it. There is no new money, it just keep changing hands. As a brazilian, I see much of that in the slums (favelas) here, and movies like City of God shows that.
And San Francisco may be silly, but not ridiculous. A Power Armour for sale is belivable, just kill/loot a dead Brotherhood of Steel patrol. The Brotherhood may try to conficate it, but unless they buy it, the whole chinatown would go against them.
Both are fantastic games, Fallout 1 is really tighter, but I can keep replaying F2 forever, everytime doing something different. If I was to choose only play one once, Fallout 1 for sure. If to own only one, Fallout 2.
Wyrmlord
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2008
- Messages
- 28,886
Yeah, but how do you kill a Brotherhood of Steel patrol?
Unless you are as well armed as a Gun Runner or a Mutant with plasma or laser rifles, you will have a hard time taking down those Paladins. And they always travel in groups. Remember, even rocket launchers and miniguns barely damage them, if at all.
Of course it is absurd to be selling Power Armors.
Unless you are as well armed as a Gun Runner or a Mutant with plasma or laser rifles, you will have a hard time taking down those Paladins. And they always travel in groups. Remember, even rocket launchers and miniguns barely damage them, if at all.
Of course it is absurd to be selling Power Armors.
Wyrmlord said:
Well, Super Mutants, "Aliens", Deathclaws, Centaurs, Enclave and probably even and well-done raider ambush can kill at least one Paladin. And it's not like there are hundreds of amrours in a 50% sale, there are very few (1-3), and they are really expensive.
Mister Arkham
Scholar
Destroid said:
Ah, let me rephrase some: As a fickle youth who primarily played FPS and RTS titles through most of the nineties, I didn't really have the inclination or the patience to settle in with a genre that was more complex and had more of a learning curve. I didn't finish many of the games that I listed in my first post until several years later because I was a kid and I got frustrated with not really understanding the mechanics of the character systems, and I got bored with the lack of compact level areas that would grant some sort of instant gratification.
I also played Fallout 2 first, having it loaned to me by a friend shortly after it was released. When I went in to buy my copy a couple of days later I found that Babbages was selling it bundled with the first game for some sort of promo thing, and when I went home I started with the original, but I had already come into the realization of what the genre was and what it was capable of through my sampling of the first. Maybe I would have had the same epiphany if I had played the original first, maybe I had just reached an age or a patience level where any RPG would properly do it, I don't know. What I do know is that Fallout 2 was the first RPG that I really understood--where the mechanics and the possibilities laid themselves bare before me and let me just have at it--and for that reason it remains very special to me.
Pope Amole
Educated
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2010
- Messages
- 138
felipepepe said:
Trading tech for food is still a longer-sighted perspective than, say, starving, and bros were too bro to engage in stuff like raiding and conquering various shit. Besides, it's not like they couldn't give away the lower and renewable kind of tech (like stimpacks) that couldn't hurt them that much.
As for the "may be beyond" - that won't do, it's either in the game or is mentioned in the game or is nonexistant, everything else is LARPing.
felipepepe said:
We're not talking about heavy gambling and prostitution here, we're talking about 100% gambling and prostitution and drug dealing which is way, way over the top, because for the money to change hands, you first need to produce something that will actually earn some money. You can say that Jet trade with Redding does that, but that still won't explain existance of the families other than Mordinos. It's not like Mordinos share with whole city. Another idiotic point of premise there is the tourism - yeah, footslogging tourism across the land full of giant man-eating lizards, giant man-eating scorpions, giant man-eating rats, giant man-eating mantises, giant man-eating fucking everything.
felipepepe said:
Dude, are you living in a MMORPG or what? To kill a Brotherhood Paladin, even if you have the high-caliber guns needed, you have to damage said armor pretty much beyond repair, because I doubt that ceramic armorplates and servomotors are easily available in the wastes. And you'll also assault the brotherhood, which won't try to confiscate it or buy it, but will engage in full frontal assault against you. But even that is not the point. The Emperor shows that Shi have a long going expansion plans and with said plans in sight, do you think they have any power armors and big guns to spare? You never sell to a potential enemy your best tech, never ever.
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2010
- Messages
- 18,698
BROS FAGOUT BROHOOD OF STEEL IS THE BEST BECAUSE ITS ON CONSOLES USE YOUR BRIAN BROS LOLLLOLOOLOLLOLOL
But seriously, I'd go with Fallout 1, although it's a very close race.
Fallout 2 is much bigger and thus has more to explore, has more items etc. (and thus more ways to brutally kill enemies with Bloody Mess) and intersting choices, like which New Reno house to help, if any, the Gecko/Vault City issues etc. and the ending, in fact the whole Enclave subplot. Oh and a car.
But some of the lulzy things are just too much, like the Scientologists complete with Tom Cruise and their space shuttle. Also the most retarded, irritating and fucking unskippable tutorial/intro thing in any RPG ever, even worse than Neverwinter Nights. Another thing that always bothered me is that it's 80 years after the original and still pretty much nothing has been rebuilt, people are still mostly living in bombed out ruins. (apart from the car)
Fallout 1 is much more serious and while the universe is obviously different from the real one it didn't go into the full wacky mode of F2. It has more of a "desperate struggle to survive" -feel, if that makes sense.
But seriously, I'd go with Fallout 1, although it's a very close race.
Fallout 2 is much bigger and thus has more to explore, has more items etc. (and thus more ways to brutally kill enemies with Bloody Mess) and intersting choices, like which New Reno house to help, if any, the Gecko/Vault City issues etc. and the ending, in fact the whole Enclave subplot. Oh and a car.
But some of the lulzy things are just too much, like the Scientologists complete with Tom Cruise and their space shuttle. Also the most retarded, irritating and fucking unskippable tutorial/intro thing in any RPG ever, even worse than Neverwinter Nights. Another thing that always bothered me is that it's 80 years after the original and still pretty much nothing has been rebuilt, people are still mostly living in bombed out ruins. (apart from the car)
Fallout 1 is much more serious and while the universe is obviously different from the real one it didn't go into the full wacky mode of F2. It has more of a "desperate struggle to survive" -feel, if that makes sense.
Clockwork Knight
Arcane
Pope Amole said:
Or bottlecaps.
Awor Szurkrarz
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2009
- Messages
- 21,899
What's wrong about the tribals?heechee1 said:
Caps were backed up by the Hub.Clockwork Knight said:
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