malichaixx
Novice
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- Nov 16, 2009
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- 43
I can't art and can't program, but I can write. since most people capable of doing the first two (that I have encountered) don't want someone else's ideas, I'm pretty much SOL.
-
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If you're so mad with current cRPGs then why...
- Thread starter kaizoku
- Start date
RE:OP's poll
Because the below is just part of the dataset that it takes to have 2.5 quests.
Warden init: (minimal stats, and no description file because being in his room locks you into dialogue window, so you can't examine or fight him)
Warden dialogue brain (aggregated):
Zed init:
Zed description file: (barebones, mind you)
Zed dialogue brain (aggregated):
Bodyguard init:
Bodyguard description file:
Bodyguard dialogue brain (aggregated):
Door description/dialogue/skill trigger datadump (aggregated):
Chest description/dialogue/skill trigger datadump (aggregated):
Mira description file:
Mira dialogue brain (aggregated):
Because the below is just part of the dataset that it takes to have 2.5 quests.
Warden init: (minimal stats, and no description file because being in his room locks you into dialogue window, so you can't examine or fight him)
Warden dialogue brain (aggregated):
Zed init:
Zed description file: (barebones, mind you)
Zed dialogue brain (aggregated):
Bodyguard init:
Bodyguard description file:
Bodyguard dialogue brain (aggregated):
Door description/dialogue/skill trigger datadump (aggregated):
|TXT[This door is protected by a complex security system...]
[OBJ_HACKSTATUS[0]=1]|TXT[... no longer.]
SAY|`You see a security door.`
SAY+[OBJ_BLOCKSTATUS[HACK_SCIENCE]=TRUE]|`There's a covered service panel underneath, with a lock.`
SAY+[OBJ_BLOCKSTATUS[HACK_SCIENCE]=FALSE]|`The lock is broken. The service panel underneath is exposed. You see wires and circuits.`
SAY+[OBJ_HACKSTATUS[HACK_COMPLETE]=TRUE]|`They have been meddled with. The door has been compromised.`
CHOICE01[OBJ_BLOCKSTATUS[HACK_SCIENCE]=TRUE]|`Try to rip the cover off the service panel (req. STRENGTHOBJ_GETHACKDIFF[HACK_STRENGTH]@)`|OBJ_USESKILL[strength]|JUMP[2]
CHOICE02|`( EXIT )`|STOPTALK
SAY[OBJ_HACKSTATUS[HACK_LOCKPICK]=TRUE]|`You ripped off the panel!`
SAY[OBJ_HACKSTATUS[HACK_LOCKPICK]=FALSE]|`You weren't strong enough to rip off the panel!`
CHOICE01|`( EXIT )`|JUMP[1]
[OBJ_BLOCKSTATUS[HACK_LOCKPICK]=TRUE]|TXT[@INTERACTOR@ could not reach the lock.]|STOPSCRIPT[1]
[OBJ_HACKSTATUS[HACK_LOCKPICK]=TRUE]|TXT[@INTERACTOR@ tried to pick an open lock.]|STOPSCRIPT[1]
[[OBJ_HACKSTATUS[HACK_LOCKPICK]=FALSE]AND[OBJ_TRYHACK[s_LOCKPICK`HACK_LOCKPICK]=OK]]|OBJ_ALTERBLOCK[HACK_SCIENCE`FALSE]|TXT[@INTERACTOR@ picked the lock successfully.]|STOPSCRIPT[OK]
[[OBJ_HACKSTATUS[HACK_LOCKPICK]=FALSE]AND[OBJ_TRYHACK[s_LOCKPICK`HACK_LOCKPICK]<>OK]]|TXT[@INTERACTOR@ failed to pick the lock.]|STOPSCRIPT[1]
[OBJ_BLOCKSTATUS[HACK_SCIENCE]=TRUE]|TXT[@INTERACTOR@ could not reach the wiring through covering panel.]|STOPSCRIPT[1]
[[OBJ_HACKSTATUS[HACK_SCIENCE]=TRUE]OR[OBJ_HACKSTATUS[HACK_COMPLETE]=TRUE]]|TXT[System is already hacked.]|STOPSCRIPT[1]
[[OBJ_HACKSTATUS[HACK_SCIENCE]=FALSE]AND[OBJ_TRYHACK[s_SCIENCE`HACK_SCIENCE]=OK]]|OBJ_DOHACK[HACK_COMPLETE]|TXT[@INTERACTOR@ rerouted the wiring successfully.]|STOPSCRIPT[OK]
[[OBJ_HACKSTATUS[HACK_SCIENCE]=FALSE]AND[OBJ_TRYHACK[s_SCIENCE`HACK_SCIENCE]<>OK]]|TXT[@INTERACTOR@ fiddled with the wires to no avail.]|STOPSCRIPT[1]
[OBJ_HACKSTATUS[HACK_LOCKPICK]=TRUE]|STOPSCRIPT[1]
[GETSTAT[INTERACTOR`strength]>=OBJ_GETHACKDIFF[HACK_STRENGTH]]|OBJ_ALTERBLOCK[HACK_SCIENCE`FALSE]|OBJ_DOHACK[HACK_LOCKPICK]|PLAY[57`0`0]|TXT[@INTERACTOR@ ripped off the panel, exposing wires beneath.]|STOPSCRIPT[OK]
Chest description/dialogue/skill trigger datadump (aggregated):
Mira description file:
Mira dialogue brain (aggregated):
kaizoku
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
- Messages
- 4,129
I also didn't want to go into detail, as it could make the thread go offtopic.chewie said:kaizoku said:
You might add FIFE. Flexible as hell and thanks to python bindings a piece of cake in terms of usage.
My team and I are working on an advanced "example" on what this engine is capable of (which we hopefully are able to shownext Thursdaythis year), as well as adding new features to the engine.
So yeah, I also complain about the missing poll option "but I'm already doing that!"
I just wanted to say that there are tools out there that you can use instead of having to code everything from scratch.
But since you mentioned that... I'll also mention a related one: FOnline It depends on FO and allows creating both multi and single player total conversion mods.
Anyway, enough with the offtopic.
Maybe it would be worth opening a different thread for that?
BTW, I checked your youtube channel and that Zero-Projekt is looking nice man *brofist*
I was going to subscribe but google has changed the youtube login interface (firefox no longer recognizes it) and I seem to have lost the txt file with my youtube account info :godimsomadtheyremovedthissmiley: :godimsomadtheyremovedthissmiley: :godimsomadtheyremovedthissmiley: :godimsomadtheyremovedthissmiley: :godimsomadtheyremovedthissmiley: :godimsomadtheyremovedthissmiley:
nevermind, found it and subscribed
That is true, modding takes a lot of time.Joghurt said:
And your case is quite unfortunate as you had a team, which I think one of the biggest problems is having a one-man-show which eventually leads to burn out. Another common problem is wanting to do something big, but it seems it was not your case.
Maybe in your case the problem was not having a clear vision of what the mod would have quest wise.
Since you were praised you guys probably had the artistic skill, but lacked the writing one.
On the other side of the specter you have guys like Krash:
It's kind of ironic.Krash said:
Imagine Krash joined you guys and started writing those quests, dialogs, and scripting, while the rest was doing the island?
@Krash
I think this allows you to create games and leave it online for everybody to play: http://ifdb.tads.org/
But can you write? Most games suffer from poor writing, lame quests and shitty story.20 Eyes said:
Furthermore, games that allow modding already provide art assets. Second, the coding isn't thaaaaat terrible, since it's scripting and the trick is, as with anything in life, step by step.
Start with an already existing location, add a new character there, make a dialog for it. Besides there are usually modding communities which can provide some help.
Considering the setting restrictions you impose, you could do it as a NWN mod I guess. I think ToEE would also allow that, but it would probably have to be a total conversion mod, which would make things harder.
I also think that, after you have something working, it's good to start posting about it in a relevant forum, as feedback from other user will keep one motivated I suspect.
What are you modding?Awor Szurkrarz said:
tl,dr!Renegen said:
just kidding
good contribution broBTW, was this one made with RPG maker by any chance? I guess it was the 1%
He does and he hates it. That's why I voted "I'm too lazy/coward"asper said:
I don't even have time to play the games in the codex list
To make things "worse" I do sports 3x a week.
And now I'm posting in the codex instead of fapping... feelsbadman.jpg
But if I have some bad news next week then I'll be able to play a couple of games. If not, maybe only around in christmas time
I also intended to do a little bit of modding in ToEE before that. It's commendable that Co8 is still alive and kicking!
I know that in my replies it may sound like I'm preaching "hey get to work you lazy bums", but what I'm just saying is that "hey, there are some mod tools and communities out there that can help out".
You...
you have a dream... and you can make that dream come true... yes... YESS!!! :D 
What you said is true but...SCO said:
(in case I wasn't clear) I'm mostly referring to modding, where you already have graphics and sound. And there are games and gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaames. BG was one of the latter.
It's quite possible for one to make a mod 2-4h and do things at his own pace. And after that piece is done, some months latter continue his work.
BTW, how many times have you tried to convince VD to quit AoD?
ohyouandyourcrazymonocle.jpgsgc_meltdown said:kaizoku said:most people that work in said fields is exactly because of that
easy playground logic retort that addresses my post on a superficial level only and failed to infer, well, anything
what does that have to do with asking people to advance a field themselves because they're passionate about what comes out of it
your thread is pretty much 'where are your credentials so an appeal to accomplishment can be seen to bolster your forum posting about shit games otherwise you have no talent so stop complaining because there are people with relevant skills whose complainings I will listen to more, because surely, as this forum has seen time and time again professionals are far better judges of their industry's products and perhaps impartial as well''
seriously if you want to see what people are doing so far just say so instead of walking into a 1918 spanish flu ward and saying fucking whiners study medicine if you want to live so much what have you done to fight the decline of health
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_accomplishment
and yeah, there's also the whole knowing what goes on behind the curtain thing. Who do you think enjoys watching a movie for the first time more, the director who has spent 10 years on it every step of the way or the fan? The director MIGHT cherish the journey he took making the film but he sure as fuck won't be surprised by the clever dialog or plot twist.
oh man I can't stop watching my own movie it is fucking tits better than this michael bay shit
appreciate the difference between creating something and experiencing it and how the former will affect the latter
ok, I'll take the bait this time.
It seems you were the one who failed to make an inference from my argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram
By the logic present in your previous examples these ones should also be valid:
- if you're disagreeing with a post on the internet why don't you reply and express your view on the subject?
- if you're so thirsty why don't you drink water?
As for your movie example, if said director disliked either the final product or the journey to make it, he would quit after similar experiences. But as you can see directors continue making movies.
Also, do take into account the example I posted in another post regarding AoD.
First of all, it makes a huge difference between having just an idea from already having some real work done. Second, it's also very relevant if you can manage doing your thing in an already existing modding tool/engine. It can change unfeasible to feasible. No need for coding an engine or having to draw art.malichaixx said:
If you can write a story then you can write dialog files and do some very basic scripting without much effort. Check the modding communities and ask for help.
Another suggestion is to try posting some of your writing and if it's interesting to others you may get some help.
malko_sundervere
Learned
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- Dec 23, 2010
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- 476
JarlFrank said:
sgc_meltdown
Arcane
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- 6,000
kaizoku said:
Do you consider it a benefit to reply to every dumbfuck statement ever?
A participant usually measures his net gain for an activity. Time investment and the insubstantial benefit here usually not worth it.
Maybe you didn't infer that as well.
You're comparing a easily satisfied basic physiological need for survival to complex leisure/social/intellectual activities needing continued long term investment outside of your own needs? Just like the other examples I gave, these are different objectives with different magnitudes of importance and required commitments. False analogy.
What does that have to do with my point? I wasn't talking about continued motivation for full time creators, I was talking about the distinction between creation and consumption and how they are not mutually exclusive factors when experiencing the final product
Which in turn goes towards addressing your question of why aren't you silly people making more of the things you like yourselves together with everything else I wrote before or after
arragh people who take an unrelated non-issue, address it and then consider that a reply
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi
Sample size insufficient.
also disregarding all that you know what
if there was something like FRUA nextgen version that's modular up the ass and can be loaded with different setting and ruleset templates I would definitely make my own stuff and release it
right now the learning curve is much higher and the payoff just not concrete
compare this to writing a novel
anyone can put a bunch of words and do it constantly over two years, the starting barrier for amateurs here is practically nonexistent but there's so much that goes into making something good and worthy of some pride that just being able to technically write won't do, if you've ever tried writing something for yourself you'll understand this
now take that problem and make the starting barrier much higher and have it constantly rise
that is game development
not only do you have to master writing in it's specialised context for rpgs
you have to learn how to design, which is a simple word but there's so much associated with it, mechanics, presentation, urban layout, flora and fauna, mechanics and formula and balancing thereof, so forth
then there's the 'art direction' monster and fundamental understanding of UI and player feedback and it goes on and on
you really need a team for this shit and all of them have to be good
so many factors have to ping positive all systems go for this to even have a chance and if something goes wrong who knows how it'll change things
I'm tired you get the point
Demnogonis Saastuttaja
Magister
I don't have the funds to pay for professionals who can do good 2D art / good old-school game music / can code. If I ever do I'll probably do it, though.
Renegen
Arcane
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- Messages
- 4,062
kaizoku said:tl,dr!
just kidding
BTW, was this one made with RPG maker by any chance? I guess it was the 1%
It is, though judging from the 1st person battle system, it's an older version of RPG Maker. Actually their website is excellent, it seems they are a 2-person team and they sold 30k units for their first game. The website also has a lot of great info on how to run a small indie, we can probably learn from their committment.
kaizoku said:
I value my precious boozing, fucking, jerking-off and ceiling-staring time more than the entertainment of people who mean nothing to me. Why would I waste it for the benefit of others? Why don't *you* entertain *me* at your expense, hm? Next time you'll ask me to send half of my breakfast to some starving apes in zimbabwe, lol.
That, and I am royally jaded about gamedev in particular and gaming in general altogether, so the incentives must be even greater so :shrug:
The poll is missing the option for "I am making one".
So yeah, most probably it won't ever get released - but I do work on it every now and then.
I've also planned my investments so that if the best case scenario occurs, I can outsource certain aspects of the project to get it finished.
But the cold hard fact is that once you're well into the working life, you simply don't have the time to finish a serious project. Combine this with high standards and you'll see why VD getting AoD out would be quite the feat.
So yeah, most probably it won't ever get released - but I do work on it every now and then.
I've also planned my investments so that if the best case scenario occurs, I can outsource certain aspects of the project to get it finished.
But the cold hard fact is that once you're well into the working life, you simply don't have the time to finish a serious project. Combine this with high standards and you'll see why VD getting AoD out would be quite the feat.
I was working on one for a while.
Isometric, turn-based, pixel art. Think original xcom but not as pretty. The combat mechanics were sort-of done.
I eventually canned the project after 9 months of working on and off on it. My writing skills sit somewhere between mediocre and shit. Same with my talents for making graphics, sound and music. I had neihter the motivation nor patience to build a smal team to make up for the areas I am no good with.
I did spend quite a lot of time making content for persistent world servers in NWN though. A lot of areas, several quests to send players sightseeing. My crowning achievement were puzzle-dungeons. Every dungeon had a story attached to it, typically with 2-10 NPCs that interacted with the players as they went through them. The dungeons were scripted only to let PCs enter them once and get full XP rewards. PCs could accompany parties of PCs that hadn't gone there, but "new" PCs had to be the majority. They all had unique enemies with custom scripted abilities and AI. Resting was restricted to set areas in the dungeon and each area could only be used a limited amount of times. Traps were custom made using an activatable thieves tools item that didn't allow the players to take 20 like the default traps in NWN did.
Some of my favourite custom encounters:
1) Zombies in the necromancers tower. Besides hitpoints, every zombie had 4 "life points". When the player killed a zombie, it'd lose 1d2 life points. If it still had any left, it'd rise again a few minutes later (usually missing an arm or a head. The 1 life point zombie was basically a pair of legs). zombies would invariably chase the player once made hostile often showing up in the middle of subsequent encounters as they shambled after the players. There were several reanimation stones scattered throughout the dungeon that players could either smash on their pedestals to permanently kill all zombies in a large radius or loot for extra gold if they felt confident in their ability to tackle coming encounters.
2) The Beholder Overlord. He had different eye beams depending on which 90-degree arc players were in. He could only target one player with each beam. Mostly memorable because writing his pathfinding AI was a bitch. (He would try to keep players on all sides of him and focus rogues after their first sneak attack). Probably the highest-level encounter I ever made.
3) "The Spider". Was universally praised, feared and hated by players. It was a boss-encounter with a large spider. Periodically, the spider would spray web in an area where the largest number (or highest threat) PCs were standing, then dig a hole in the ground and disappear. It'd remain burrowed for about 15-30 seonds in which time it'd regenerate health. While burrowed, the players had to move constantly, as the spider would home in on static players and pull them underground into a seperate area where small spiderlings constantly spawned. The players would then have to fight their way back to the surface. It's probably the encounter that claimed the most PCs until players figured out the pattern.
4) Having the players substitute human-sized chess pieces to amuse a pair of fire giants whose chess set were short a few pieces. (The players could actually score bonus loot from one of the giants by helping him cheat to win. First they'd have to distract the other giant, then rearrnge themselves subtly on the board to improve the odds of their side winning). I used a pretty basic chess AI looted from an opensource project and the game was already underway when the PCs entered to speed things up. It still took ~15-20 minutes to play out however, which was probably too long.
5) Searching a library for the correct books to reconstruct a banishment ritual (while the demon was running rampant next door). Several lore checks, search checks and some detective work to piece together clues as to which shelves to search next influenced how quickly (if at all) the players could piece the ritual together. If they failed entirely, they'd have to fight a fairly beefy (and angry) demon. If they succeeded, the speed at which they managed to banish the demon would determine how much of their potential loot the demon managed to smash during its rampage.
6) Playing the parts of the friends and family in an insane ghosts hallucination. The players would find notes and journals during their trek through the dungeon. When they eventually encountered the ghost who mistook them for people he once knew, the players had to play along to coax the password for a ward out of the ghost. Mostly memorable because the dialogue in the act could turn quite hilarious if the players kept getting their lines wrong and confusing the ghost.
Isometric, turn-based, pixel art. Think original xcom but not as pretty. The combat mechanics were sort-of done.
I eventually canned the project after 9 months of working on and off on it. My writing skills sit somewhere between mediocre and shit. Same with my talents for making graphics, sound and music. I had neihter the motivation nor patience to build a smal team to make up for the areas I am no good with.
I did spend quite a lot of time making content for persistent world servers in NWN though. A lot of areas, several quests to send players sightseeing. My crowning achievement were puzzle-dungeons. Every dungeon had a story attached to it, typically with 2-10 NPCs that interacted with the players as they went through them. The dungeons were scripted only to let PCs enter them once and get full XP rewards. PCs could accompany parties of PCs that hadn't gone there, but "new" PCs had to be the majority. They all had unique enemies with custom scripted abilities and AI. Resting was restricted to set areas in the dungeon and each area could only be used a limited amount of times. Traps were custom made using an activatable thieves tools item that didn't allow the players to take 20 like the default traps in NWN did.
Some of my favourite custom encounters:
1) Zombies in the necromancers tower. Besides hitpoints, every zombie had 4 "life points". When the player killed a zombie, it'd lose 1d2 life points. If it still had any left, it'd rise again a few minutes later (usually missing an arm or a head. The 1 life point zombie was basically a pair of legs). zombies would invariably chase the player once made hostile often showing up in the middle of subsequent encounters as they shambled after the players. There were several reanimation stones scattered throughout the dungeon that players could either smash on their pedestals to permanently kill all zombies in a large radius or loot for extra gold if they felt confident in their ability to tackle coming encounters.
2) The Beholder Overlord. He had different eye beams depending on which 90-degree arc players were in. He could only target one player with each beam. Mostly memorable because writing his pathfinding AI was a bitch. (He would try to keep players on all sides of him and focus rogues after their first sneak attack). Probably the highest-level encounter I ever made.
3) "The Spider". Was universally praised, feared and hated by players. It was a boss-encounter with a large spider. Periodically, the spider would spray web in an area where the largest number (or highest threat) PCs were standing, then dig a hole in the ground and disappear. It'd remain burrowed for about 15-30 seonds in which time it'd regenerate health. While burrowed, the players had to move constantly, as the spider would home in on static players and pull them underground into a seperate area where small spiderlings constantly spawned. The players would then have to fight their way back to the surface. It's probably the encounter that claimed the most PCs until players figured out the pattern.
4) Having the players substitute human-sized chess pieces to amuse a pair of fire giants whose chess set were short a few pieces. (The players could actually score bonus loot from one of the giants by helping him cheat to win. First they'd have to distract the other giant, then rearrnge themselves subtly on the board to improve the odds of their side winning). I used a pretty basic chess AI looted from an opensource project and the game was already underway when the PCs entered to speed things up. It still took ~15-20 minutes to play out however, which was probably too long.
5) Searching a library for the correct books to reconstruct a banishment ritual (while the demon was running rampant next door). Several lore checks, search checks and some detective work to piece together clues as to which shelves to search next influenced how quickly (if at all) the players could piece the ritual together. If they failed entirely, they'd have to fight a fairly beefy (and angry) demon. If they succeeded, the speed at which they managed to banish the demon would determine how much of their potential loot the demon managed to smash during its rampage.
6) Playing the parts of the friends and family in an insane ghosts hallucination. The players would find notes and journals during their trek through the dungeon. When they eventually encountered the ghost who mistook them for people he once knew, the players had to play along to coax the password for a ward out of the ghost. Mostly memorable because the dialogue in the act could turn quite hilarious if the players kept getting their lines wrong and confusing the ghost.
Hey Ultimati, that are some nice encounters man !!
Also, I really disagree that it would homehow not be enjoyable to play your own mod/game.
I used to make loads of Doom-maps and it was still fun to play.. I used to code some small arcade games, end those were fun to play as well.. You know what will happen / but the way things play out, the random factor, the challenge - even if you know the procedures/checks/scripts/AI behind it, it is still there if done well.
Reading one's own book would be pretty meh though, have to agree with that one.
There are some actors that claim not to watch the final product. At first I found that most bizarre, but now I can at least understand it.
Also, I really disagree that it would homehow not be enjoyable to play your own mod/game.
I used to make loads of Doom-maps and it was still fun to play.. I used to code some small arcade games, end those were fun to play as well.. You know what will happen / but the way things play out, the random factor, the challenge - even if you know the procedures/checks/scripts/AI behind it, it is still there if done well.
Reading one's own book would be pretty meh though, have to agree with that one.
There are some actors that claim not to watch the final product. At first I found that most bizarre, but now I can at least understand it.
Awor Szurkrarz
Arcane
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- 21,899
Many games.kaizoku said:
kaizoku
Arcane
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- 4,129
That was my point. The examples you gave are also false analogies.sgc_meltdown said:
Exactly. But you're only accounting for its downside, which is the lack of a novelty factor. You're not considering the aggregated satisfaction derived from both sides.
I'm aware that some people don't enjoy producing anything and prefer to only consume, hence this poll, thus the reference to Venn diagrams.
Another aspect to consider is the replayability of the type of games we're talking here.
I concur that putting a really great game out there takes a lot of effort; there is no doubt about that.
That's why I also mentioned in this thread the importance of doing something small, using existing assets (art, sound, toolkits, etc), where there is an existing modding community, and ideally even with the participation from other individuals. Then, maybe continue from there if they think it's worth it.
Creating something from scratch as a part-time project, even more when it's the most complex type of genre out there, is truly herculean.
Rarely anyone is a jack of all trades. And those are some very interesting encounters bro. Level design is serious business, sometimes the major factor into keeping a person playing a game.Ulminati said:
Serious_Business
Best Poster on the Codex
sgc_meltdown said:
Loosing your composure, eh?
I'll go with it, I'm a man of the times : u mad brah?
How does it feel to be in the thick of it, is what I must know.
sgc_meltdown
Arcane
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- May 8, 2003
- Messages
- 6,000
kaizoku said:
Really?
Tell me how spending years on a product are not analogues for the same commitment required to spend years on rocket engines or research compared to your examples of internet posting and drinking water, which was my point. You asked if you like the notion of such and such why don't you go spend years of your life mastering skills and spending time on the effort. This is a multifaceted endeavor with a genre that requires one of the most combinations of creative skills. It is akin to asking people to start up more 'from your garage' x-com clones. The scarceness of projects like these compared to your usual hidden object drivel kills all but the most dedicated teams.
You first say all that isn't analogous to the sentiment expressed by your thread, and then you go on to compare me questioning the feasibility and immediacy of that goal to not wanting to post on the internet or drink water, and then you go on to acknowledge that this isn't a trivial undertaking. What?
Serious_Business said:
I'm just a visitor like you.
now show me yours before it rots
kaizoku
Arcane
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- Messages
- 4,129
sgc_meltdown said:
kaizoku said:
kaizoku said:
I never said "hey guys, why don't you do a AAA game with shiny artwork/graphics, complete voice overs, full of C&C branching, with over 50+ hours on each gameplay? it's a piece of cake! 6 months tops!".
You mentioned some situations where the amount of effort involved is simply of a greater order of magnitude than the one required to develop a game. Thus my counter examples which exaggerated things but by underestimating the task again by other orders of magnitude.
you're comparing bleeding edge scientific research done by guys with PhDs to using modding toolkits that are accessible to people in high school or even undergradute levels not necessarily in the CS field, where the the level of technical skill required is average?
the same goes for rocket engines... that shit is
Sorry about that guys :/ My bad.malko_sundervere said:
Interesting
Educated
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- Apr 11, 2009
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- 39
I can design and write.
What I cant get is an opportunity.
I bet its the same for most of us.
Thats why we are so full of righteousness. Its not that we are lazy or incompetent. In reality we are much better than everyone else, its just that we dont have their opportunity.
This explanation also explain why this topic causes no effect on us and thats why we keep complaining.
What I cant get is an opportunity.
I bet its the same for most of us.
Thats why we are so full of righteousness. Its not that we are lazy or incompetent. In reality we are much better than everyone else, its just that we dont have their opportunity.
This explanation also explain why this topic causes no effect on us and thats why we keep complaining.
Surf Solar
cannot into womynz
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- 8,831
Interesting said:
Then why don't you just create an opporturnity? You said you can design and write. That's the most important thing for creating an elaborate design document. Write one. Then you post it on the important places where people can see it. 's not really rocket science here. Most of the time (=always) the games/mods etc. don't magically come crawling on their own to you (atleast if you don't already have a reputation as a good writer/designer) - you have to search them on your own and vice versa.
Awor Szurkrarz
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2009
- Messages
- 21,899
One thing that I don't like about modding is that I can't sell stuff that I make. Even getting 500$ from a project would be nice.
FatCat
Educated
I am quete happy with where cRPG's are now tough i do wish they ware more like in the old days.
*psssssssst* most of the codex is quite happy they just like to be edgy elitists.
*psssssssst* most of the codex is quite happy they just like to be edgy elitists.
Excommunicator
Arcane
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2010
- Messages
- 3,524
kaizoku said:
You must be an idiot. Tried listening to yourself speak? This is you. omfg rocket science is amazing genius superhuman work and game design is childish high school work that anyone can do but shouldnt cuz that shit is for babies
You completely fail at reasoning and I'm going to tell you why.
You see another thread asking about whether or not people are unhappy with the games being offered, then when it shows people are unhappy, you go and make a thread asking "well, why not go out and make the games you aren't getting". The implication being that these people should be able to go out and create these awesome games at their will, and that you don't know why they haven't or aren't doing that. If making the games they wanted was that easy, there would be no goddamn shortage would there?
Yeah, you just need to go out and create some mods, and those 2-4h mods will totally satisfy the every desire of every unhappy Codexer.
meltdown's analogies were spot on actually, and you'd be able to see it if you weren't so consumed by your own false conceptions about what game dev does or doesn't involve
BAM
right in the kisser
right in the kisser
kaizoku
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2006
- Messages
- 4,129
If you really think that rocket science requires the same level of scientific and technical expertise than game modding, do keep at it, you're doing a great job with your imaginationExcommunicator said:
Furthermore, in your failed attempt to mock my arguments you put technical skills and creative skills in the same bag, which is simply incorrect. In case you didn't notice it I was referring to the technical aspect of game mod/dev.
I'm sure we can all agree that the problem with most games are not their physics based engines and eroding soil but instead the gameplay and writing, thus such things as fancy game engines are simply irrelevant to this discussion IMO.
Consequently IMO the real bottleneck or decisive factor towards the outcome are creative skills instead of technical skills. Obviously that those technical skills take time to master, but that is not something inherently as difficult as fully comprehending something as Schrödinger's equation. Similarly it is likely than someone with creative skills will say that the coding/scripting aspect is a road block while the coder will say the opposite. And like I said before, hardly anyone is a master of all trades, thus the importance of having some support (ie, community, very small team).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_parsimoniaeExcommunicator said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram
Having something is better than not having anything. A game quality should be not measured by its lenght. The codex will never be satisfied or happy.Excommunicator said:
Excommunicator == meltdown?Excommunicator said:
Am I really the one who's consumed by pre-established false conceptions? Remember that when you point a finger, the other ones point back at you.Excommunicator said:
Yes, I also think this is probably the best approach.Archibald said:
Even though having a forum is a great tool, you could maybe jump start with a project webpage at blogspot and host the files in rapidshare.
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