Sword of the Stars 2: Electric Boogaloo

[MetalCraze]

Elemental is from Stardock
But unlike Stardock Paradox-released games also have gameplay behind bugs

 

[Marobug]

WHOA!

This is definitely not more of the same!

I've only been messing around with it for about an hour and I don't know what's going on yet, but I think that we're definitely in for a much better game than the last.

1) Those who felt the last one was too simple, take heart, you need to RTFM to play this one.

Fuck no.
I know it's a beta and all so I expect things to improve even if not drastically, but I don't know what you expected that made you say these things. A stand alone expansion with a new interface maybe ?
The game still has no depth and the strategic part still is as shallow as always, now with added interface problems, bugs and crashes. Looks pretty though.

 

[Oarfish]

Stupidly buggy release, not even beta quality. Doubt it will be fixed by the time it hits retail

 

[JohnTheRevelator]

That sounds interesting. I didn't like original much. How is empire management improved (I mean is there any empire/economy management?)? How much can you do with ship designer (is it merely sticking guns into hardpoints or can you go more in detail?)? How randomized tech tree's work? Race exclusive technologies to be found? Is it better than MoOII?

 

[dragonfk]

Elemental is from Stardock
But unlike Stardock Paradox-released games also have gameplay behind bugs

Well I didn't mean that E:WoM is from Pardox. I just compared the launch of SotS2 with E:WoM.

Paradox is well known to release beta versions of their games. Sometimes they need whole expansion packs to become playable. But you already know this, don't you?

 

[Marobug]

That sounds interesting. I didn't like original much. How is empire management improved (I mean is there any empire/economy management?)? How much can you do with ship designer (is it merely sticking guns into hardpoints or can you go more in detail?)? How randomized tech tree's work? Race exclusive technologies to be found? Is it better than MoOII?

Think SOTS1 but prettier but also completely broken. Empire management is still pretty close to non-existent so if you didn't like the first I don't think you'll like this one.

 

[tindrli]

Oh dear, I should have known better than to buy a strategy game on release day, especially after what happened with Elemental.

what happend to elemental anyway???

 

[MetalCraze]

Elemental is from Stardock
But unlike Stardock Paradox-released games also have gameplay behind bugs

Well I didn't mean that E:WoM is from Pardox. I just compared the launch of SotS2 with E:WoM.

Paradox is well known to release beta versions of their games. Sometimes they need whole expansion packs to become playable. But you already know this, don't you?

I prefer to call them $20 patches

what happend to elemental anyway???

Massive fail

Stardock was silent since. Maybe they went back to making widgets for Windows

 

[JohnTheRevelator]

what happend to elemental anyway???

It was crap. Dunno if it still is. Fallen Enchantress so far looks like massive though. Well not that Elemental looked great based on info they were giving ......

BTW to derail thread further I have a question. Any games/mods in genre that don't feature early colony rush? I always hated it. I'd prefer to slowly develop my colonies and expand when I can afford it (quite frankly establishing new colony and getting profit from it right from the start is ridiculous). Early rush to grab as much as you can seems pretty derp to me. There was Nova mod to SEV by Captain Kwok but sadly it doesn't look like he is working on it any more/won't be out any time soon.

Stardock was silent since.

Skyway is wrong about something. More news at 11!
I guess since it's not a shooter you're simply not interested enough to gather info on the subject.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Think SOTS1 but prettier but also completely broken. Empire management is still pretty close to non-existent so if you didn't like the first I don't think you'll like this one.

I didn't just make up the shit that I listed you know. It might not be super sophisticated, but it's certainly more complex than the other game in that respect. I don't see how you could even say that it's the same given that instead of savings/research you now balance between government/research. The government end of that equation being broken down into like 15 categories worth of spending. You can change the tax and immigration policies now for shit's sake. How is that nonexistent empire management? Because it's all sliders? Have you ever played a little game called Victoria?

On another note, the release is a complete clusterfuck. This is Elemental part two basically.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

That sounds interesting. I didn't like original much. How is empire management improved (I mean is there any empire/economy management?)? How much can you do with ship designer (is it merely sticking guns into hardpoints or can you go more in detail?)? How randomized tech tree's work? Race exclusive technologies to be found? Is it better than MoOII?

Ship designer is the same in essence. There are more hardpoints and segments per ship class, and now there are modules, which aren't weapons as such but change the nature of what the ship does.

MoOII is an awful high standard, so I won't comment beyond saying that you probably aren't going to be enjoying many games ever again if you hold them up against that mark.

Empire management is more complex in that:

1)You have to actually make use of your existing fleet in order to colonize and construct infrastructure. Ships aren't disposable anymore. Colonization and construction missions require round trips to and from supply points until construction is finished or a colony is self-sufficient.

2)There is province definition and management. This means that there are provincial capitals which influence your ability to get money/production out of the province at large. If the capital is taken, you don't immediately lose the whole province, but you take a huge penalty to production/trade across the province.

3)Trade requires manually building an infrastructure as opposed to just building freighters and moving the slider. You have to build stations for freighters to dock at and in order to trade with other empires you have to make sure those stations facilitate habitats for aliens species.

4) There are entire tech trees devoted to non-combat oriented effects. The political science tree for instance, allows you to subjugate independent planets peacefully, improve the size/capabilities of provinces, etc.

5) You can make extremely specific diplomatic deals with other empires. This ranges from defining borders to the size of what ships you allow in your space.

6) You now have the ability to manage tax rate and immigration rate. Spending is broken down into a lot of categories, off the top of my head you have:

A) Security - which is broken down into Intel, Counter Intel, and Operations

B) Stimulus - Trade/Mining/Production IIRC

And some other shit I don't remember, but there were at least four more categories for spending as I recall.

 

[JohnTheRevelator]

Empire management is more complex...

Hey that doesn't sound horrible. One thing is not having any empire management and another thing is having too much pointless micromanagement. Question is if it provides enough flexibility to try different strategies? I know that it's probably too soon to tell BTW, game was barely released. I always take too long to write anything, so yeah what darkpatriot said. As for launch failure I heard they accidentally sent beta build instead of gold to Steam. EDIT: Apparently it's just a buggy unfinished mess.

MoOII is an awful high standard, so I won't comment beyond saying that you probably aren't going to be enjoying many games ever again if you hold them up against that mark.

but I'm not really asking that much, MoOII is far from begin perfect.

there are modules

Well that's definitely nice. How much of an impact they have though? Is it generally some minor bonus to this or that or something more sophisticated?

 

[Marobug]

Think SOTS1 but prettier but also completely broken. Empire management is still pretty close to non-existent so if you didn't like the first I don't think you'll like this one.

I didn't just make up the shit that I listed you know. It might not be super sophisticated, but it's certainly more complex than the other game in that respect. I don't see how you could even say that it's the same given that instead of savings/research you now balance between government/research. The government end of that equation being broken down into like 15 categories worth of spending. You can change the tax and immigration policies now for shit's sake. How is that nonexistent empire management? Because it's all sliders? Have you ever played a little game called Victoria?

On another note, the release is a complete clusterfuck. This is Elemental part two basically.

Hence why I said close to non-existent. There are more sliders but all of it is still the same streamlined PoS we all know, it's not comparable to other games when it comes to complexity and depth. Just because it's more complex than the first sots where empire management was simply non-existent doesn't mean you require a 200 pages manual to know how to play it.

Also, rofl @ at your sots-victoria comparison.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Well considering that the main bitch about the game seems to be 'omfg sliders' and there are countless good games that make use of more or less nothing but a bunch of sliders, it's a bit fucking grating after a while.

 

[Zarniwoop]

what happend to elemental anyway???

It was crap. Dunno if it still is. Fallen Enchantress so far looks like massive though. Well not that Elemental looked great based on info they were giving ......

BTW to derail thread further I have a question. Any games/mods in genre that don't feature early colony rush? I always hated it. I'd prefer to slowly develop my colonies and expand when I can afford it (quite frankly establishing new colony and getting profit from it right from the start is ridiculous). Early rush to grab as much as you can seems pretty derp to me. There was Nova mod to SEV by Captain Kwok but sadly it doesn't look like he is working on it any more/won't be out any time soon.

Master of Orion 3. Colonies take a long time to develop and become profitable, you spend money from your treasury to subsidise them until they develop enough. If you build too many colonies too soon you will go bankrupt very easily. In fact isn't that the case with SotS as well?

 

[JohnTheRevelator]

Master of Orion 3. Colonies take a long time to develop and become profitable, you spend money from your treasury to subsidise them until they develop enough. If you build too many colonies too soon you will go bankrupt very easily. In fact isn't that the case with SotS as well?

Uhhh... any other titles? ...... Well I guess I could give MoOIII another chance with some mods maybe ... TBH it's not a must have but it always irritated me in 4x games. Thanks anyway.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

SOTS strongly penalizes you for rushing colonies actually.

See, this is what kind of pisses me off when you guys(aimed at nobody in particular, I just feel like I'm repeating myself in every thread SOTS comes up while the codex counters me with one-liners about how it 'just plain sucks') talk about this game. You sit there and beat the computer on easy mode and assume that there's no strategy to the game because of it. If you rush colonies at the start of a multiplayer game you are going to cripple your research, production, income, and therefore military power. You will get gains faster from starting colonies later in SOTS 1 after expansions.

Same thing with the 'overly simplified trade mechanics.' Total disregard for the fact that the trade system in SOTS forces you to deal with the consequences for several turns every time you open/close a lane. Production/trade income don't just shoot right back up the next turn, they phase in slowly, which is a perfectly adequate model that encourages long-term planning.

Commerce raiding, subjugation techs, plagueships, etc etc etc. People assume that because they can beat the computer by spamming starships it's the only way to play the game, when I guarantee I could beat any one of you every single time if you used that strategy with careful and controlled use of the less overtly confrontational options(addiction, plagues, jammers, node bombing).

Actually you know what, if you only think that strategy games are to be played alone. Don't bother with the series, suits me just fine.

 

[Marobug]

See, this is what kind of pisses me off when you guys(aimed at nobody in particular, I just feel like I'm repeating myself in every thread SOTS comes up while the codex counters me with one-liners about how it 'just plain sucks') talk about this game. You sit there and beat the computer on easy mode and assume that there's no strategy to the game because of it. If you rush colonies at the start of a multiplayer game you are going to cripple your research, production, income, and therefore military power. You will get gains faster from starting colonies later in SOTS 1 after expansions.

Same thing with the 'overly simplified trade mechanics.' Total disregard for the fact that the trade system in SOTS forces you to deal with the consequences for several turns every time you open/close a lane. Production/trade income don't just shoot right back up the next turn, they phase in slowly, which is a perfectly adequate model that encourages long-term planning.

Commerce raiding, subjugation techs, plagueships, etc etc etc. People assume that because they can beat the computer by spamming starships it's the only way to play the game, when I guarantee I could beat any one of you every single time if you used that strategy with careful and controlled use of the less overtly confrontational options(addiction, plagues, jammers, node bombing).

So...this is complexity for you ?

 

[Angelo85]

Delicious drama! Not only ITT but about the game in general.

I never really heard of this before but it seems like the developers ran into serious monetary issues and had to either rush the game out of the door or die. This would explain the 'accident' with the beta release and the patch 'debacle'.

http://arinndembo.com/?p=743

It has been extremely difficult to lose so many team members over the course of the last year. It would be hard enough to miss them as people, but as developers their absence is even more keenly felt. We’re still alive and working, but the programmers have had to put in 12+ hour days to try and compensate for people who aren’t there. We’ve pushed it as hard as we can, and no one has the resources to push any harder.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/s ... ?t=2209132

Fred Wester, our CEO posted this on the Paradox forum and I'm spreading it to all of you here.

"State of the Game

Hello all, there has been problems with the Sword of the Stars 2 release and for this we apologize. This should have been handled in a much more professional way from both us and the developer.

There has been version problems on Steam, and we are working on updating this version 24x7 from both the development and publishing team. Patching is in process for all known errors.

I can personally guarantee we will work on the game until it works as it should be, and in the meantime all I can say is that we should have done this better. Our sincere apologies.

Expect a response and status update from the developer as soon as they are ready with more information (which should be soon). Thanks for your patience.

---
Fred Wester
CEO Paradox Interactive "

We are sorry for the inconvenience but this will be fixed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK8jbce049I

 

[Marobug]

So...who fucked up ? Kerberos, Kerberos's financial accountant, Paradox or Valve ? I'm still unsure what to think of this whole mess. Everyone's contradicting everyone.

 

[Raapys]

Has there ever been any 4x game not rushed out too soon and filled with bugs and unfinished stuff? MoO1&2 and maybe IG2 are the exceptions I can think of, but even those had their problems despite being playable.

MoO3, SpaceEmpires, DistantWorlds, Ascendancy, Pax, etc., had game-breaking bugs, horrible AI and/or a largely unfinished feature set. Seems to be the norm in this genre( and now every genre).

 

[CrimsonAngel]

It is not a bad game.
I kind of like it and if they fixed the UI, the bugs and crashes and a few control issues it would be pretty good.

 

[Korgan]

Wait, what the fuck, doesn't this work on WinXP?!

 

[Rina]

Wait, what the fuck, doesn't this work on WinXP?!

Nope, needs DX10. Not sure who thought that was a good idea.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Wait, what the fuck, doesn't this work on WinXP?!

Nope, needs DX10. Not sure who thought that was a good idea.

It's needs fucking what? I have a proper card but the fuck?