Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup questions/thread

[Reptilian Shapeshifter]

You realize that simply by using 't, t' you can just 'yell', which causes enemies to notice you? I use this a lot when I want to get a sleeping or clueless monster to follow me into a hallway.

Yes, that's true, but with certain spells (like meph) you can project the noise further away. I'm assuming of course that the noise comes from the point of impact where the cloud hits. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

 

[Zomg]

I still disrecommend starting with spriggans or other fast races; having the ability to kite most enemies completely for free will stunt the development of good habits and insights.

I think there are thee or so good starting characters.

You can start withpure casters (this means summoners, venom mages, elementalists, conjurers, wizards) - use elves, demonspawn, humans, etc. It's much easier now that you can arbitrarily pump fighting skill as much as you want, which raises your HP - you used to have to bash rats or w/e boring shit to get it to go up. Take Sif Muna or Vehumet as your god. You get a really varied toolset with a pure caster, and your skill is basically finding and choosing the right tools at the right times. You learn a lot playing them yet you have lots of escape tools etc. that means you can make an error and recover, perfect for new players.

Or you can use a simple character - a berserker (or faux berserker with a fighter-type character that worships Trog) or a fighter or hybrid Makhleb-worshipper (you used to be able to start as a Makhleb worshipper but they removed it). Both of those gods give you a simple but extremely powerful toolset that can batter down most problems.

There are a lot of trap choices for new characters that are great early but kind of dead end at a certain point and require you to branch at the right time or just play with weird behaviors. Non-spriggan enchanters are like that, trolls are like that, orcs of beogh are like that, also necromancers. Also venom mages and maybe some of the elementalists - I forget what they've changed in the last couple of versions.

 

[7hm]

You don't have to explore the whole level.

If something is too hard, run. Dive if you need to.

One strategy (not quite as good now with the timed portal entries) is to always go down every staircase when you spot it, and then go back up. This will give you an idea of the level below in case you need to dive later. I think it's a good strategy for a beginner to get used to the idea that clearing levels is not the key here. If you move down faster, you'll get more xp and better weapons faster, and can go back up to the earlier levels and clear them out more easily.

One strategy I sometimes use is to go with a zerker and just dive and zerk everything until around d:8 or 9. Then go back up to D:1 and clear my way out slowly. Generally do this when I just want a fast start.

If you're going with a berserker, my absolute favorite is the High Elf. Switch to long blade asap. Trog will eventually give you an awesome long blade. Use it. Use a shield. Become a killing machine. (I then drop Trog and turn my HEBe into a caster so that I can die while on zig:26 or 27, but that's not a newbie strategy.)

The generally accepted path for branches is:

Dungeon until Lair. Lair until L:7. Depending on how you're doing, either do L:8 or go do Orc:1-3. Then do L:8 followed by Orc:4. Then (depending on your resists) either main dungeon until Vaults or Snake:4 > Shoals:4 > Swamp:4 (whatever order). Then Snake / Swamp / Shoals 5. Then Vaults until v:7. Then clear the dungeon to d:27. Then v:8. Then zot. Then maybe endgame stuff.

Do elf sometime around when you're doing the rune branches. Consider slime endgame stuff, unless you know what you're doing just ignore it completely in your first winning attempt. Be careful of elf:5.

All branch endings are considerably harder than the preceding levels.

Be careful of portals, and don't be afraid to just not do them. Particularly the Bailey. Nothing like dying to an orc warlord on a promising character in a bailey. Or to damn crossbow fire.

Read spoilers. I think there's tips and shit in the LP I did as well. You can see some of my various newbie failures there. I didn't end up doing LPs of any of my wins or more successful runs (various endgame deaths in zigs or pan).

edit: The most important tip of all. If something is too hard, RUN. Use your consumables. You only get one life. If you have a 9/10 chance of succeeding, and a 1/10 chance of dying, and it's not something you absolutely NEED to do (like engage with that snake / orc priest / ogre / whatever), then DON'T DO IT. If the odds are against you, they will eventually catch up to you. And you'll feel pretty damn stupid.

 

[desocupado]

The rings of regeneration don't need to be taken off at full health, the extra food consumption is only while you heal and/or are sick.

The dicking around with skills is more important for hybrids and stabbers, less so to pure fighters and pure casters.

Hybrids and stabbers have lots of skills being used, so the game will divide xp gain between all of those, which might lead to you not having a skill high enough when you need too.

There's nothing that can resist Mephitic Cloud between D:1 and D:9 (except Grinder and imps), if you're having a tough time, grab a wizard and abuse it.

 

[7hm]

If you're playing the newer versions don't worry about the fighting skill until you have a solid base of weapon and armour / shield or primary casting skills. If you're playing an older version, fighting is super super super important. (It used to impact HP a lot more.)

You're better off focusing your xp into one or two skills max. You get the skill bonus the second it levels up, so don't waste xp by partially levelling skills.

Early on you want to avoid:

Snakes, Ogres, Orc Priest / Wizard, any named Unique. You can probably handle anything else in the game unless you're super weak. If you see several orcs, that usually means there is a priest around the corner.

Always ID your potions and scrolls. If you die with multiple un-ID'd potions in your inventory, you're doing something wrong. DCSS is pretty light as far as roguelikes go in terms of the ID game. You almost certainly won't die unless you're doing something stupid (like use-ID'ing potions with less than full health, in sight of enemies, in an unexplored area, etc). As soon as you have 3 of a potion, ID it. The one downside to this is mutation and cure mut, so some people will suggest you identify potions with scrolls, but I think for new players the very small chance of mut potions is far outweighed by the very real impact knowing what the common potions are will have on your success rate.

Felids are an easy way to win. They do teach bad habits though, so be careful with that. A good way to see the game though. And a lot of people (like me ((() die their first time in Zot, or a rune end, or Elf:5 or whatever. So having a run through with a Felid gives you a chance to see some of the dangers you may have to face down the road. Just try to play each life like it's your only life.

Don't walk towards enemies. Wait and let them come to you. You don't know what else is around that corner, and if you're exploring as you engage you may be in for a big surprise. Or, if you end up having to chase you could run into something or have to let the monster get away.

 

[Reptilian Shapeshifter]

I just did a few runs with some Naga Chaos Knights, and it's a much tougher game. The slow speed in and of itself really limits your options, and then you have Xom's boredom clock on you. So if your looking for a challenge, try that one.

I noticed that mummies actually move at normal speed in 0.9.1. Aren't they supposed to be the slowest race in the game? When I look at CrawlWiki it doesn't say anything about movement speed under innate abilities.

 

[betamin]

Read learndb not the wiki, its outdated.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Also remember, if you see any unique that might have a wand, it's probably either disintegration or the opposite element of that unidentified ring you put on, so just avoid fighting any humanoid uniques at all until like, level 15. Daring approach Ijyb just because you're level 5 and can kill him in 2-3 rounds and he's asleep makes you a bad player.

 

[betamin]

Yes.


Edit: If you want to win. Did you read what I said about risk management some posts back? Im innit for the fun so I'll take the chance without caring too much.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Ok, fuck it. I give up. Finally got to the Lair with a cheese character (DDNe), cleared Orc Mines, and died after poking my head into lair 8 and encounter the mightiest of all creatures.

The Spiny Frog.

I mean, sure, I was poison resistant now, had murdered dozens of them before simply by vampiric draining them in melee, usually gaining hp in the exchange, had better stats and spell skills now. But lo, foolish me decided to try engaging a spiny frog in combat, and soon enough I ran out of healing potions and died trying to escape using Swiftness, having wasted my teleport scrolls foolishly on lesser foes like death yaks, fire drakes and hydras.

Crawl: Because you hate bell curves and like enemies that hit for triple their own hit points on a regular basis while you fail to hit the broad side of a barn.

 

[Ashery]

Just picked the game back up after a long hiatus (Thank my main comp going down), and my initial HEWr ended up getting hit with the "You move more slowly" mutation on D:6 thanks to a poly other wand. Talk about frustrating as hell. Ended up dying shortly thereafter as I had to burn consumables to escape from mobs that moved at the base speed. Also got lazy and complacent thanks to the mutation.

Still, it's interesting playing Warpers again now that they don't have access to teleport self. That used to be my go to escape plan: Teleport self, control teleport, and then play defensively until it kicks in. Shroud's definitely improved their early game melee capabilities, though, so it's not a complete loss.

They're probably one of the better starting classes as you'll have early access to good escape mechanisms, while at the same time not having access to a cheesy tactic that'll teach you bad habits (The cheesiest tactic is probably blink dancing while wearing down an ogre/etc with darts/etc, but that's pretty mild). My current DrWr is doing remarkably well, but I've had pretty good luck with gear and am able to abuse my racial throw flame ability.

For gear, I can't recommend troll hides enough. They're absolutely fucking amazing on every caster and hybrid. Low EV penalty (-1), 4 (or is it 5?) base AC, and provides regeneration. Troll hides will last you through the end game unless you find an excellent randart or are forced to use some dragon armor/robe of resistance to cover a needed resist.

I suggest just chugging potions to identify them until you burn a cure mutation one. Unless you're sitting on a substantial stack of cure mutation potions, it's best not to be in a situation where you're forced to burn one to cure the bad mutations you got from use id'ing the potion of mutation.

 

[MisterStone]

GodDAMN bros, I am now playing a Kenku Conjurer named FreezrChikn, and fuck if it isn't hard. I burned through dozens of freezrchikns the past few days until I got to where I am right now- I finally got freezing cloud to where it is reliable enough to cast about 70% of the time. Basically I just built up those conjuring spell skills, and fighting (for the HP), so now I need to figure out when to learn a weapon skill and dodging. I haven't really found a kickass weapon anywhere yet, but there were vanilla great swords and an artifact spear that probably is shit because it is cursed (haven't wielded yet).

Anyway, freezing cloud is fucking badassical, it just eats up everything and spits it back out, dead. Not sure how I can handle undead though, the only thing I have for that is maybe lightning, but they're probably able to resist.

BTW, did they remove the weapon skew for some weapons towards DEX or STR? I don't see it in the descripts.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Dispel Undead is honestly worth the ~8 levels in Necromancy you'll need for it for any caster. It'll take a trivial amount of xp compared to cranking conjuration high enough for level 8 spells to match it. It just turns undead into free xp, regardless of the type. And it's only level 4, so you don't lose many spell slots. Next best thing would be pure Conj spells I guess. But you'd need something insane to match the damage. Lightning bolt can get around the same damage with high enough power, but it can (and will) miss, and will also be resisted by all sorts of shit. Dispel Undead can't be dodged or resisted, and does up to 87 damage. It's only drawback is that you need clear line of effect, but that's what icecloud is for right?

 

[Reptilian Shapeshifter]

GodDAMN bros, I am now playing a Kenku Conjurer named FreezrChikn, and fuck if it isn't hard.

You don't know hard until you've played a Mummy or Naga Chaos Knight.

I've had at least 20 starts and the furthest I've been able to get is D:11. This is after 4 consecutive Orb victories with 2 Transmuters and 2 Wizards.

I've been killed by Xom's summons at least 5 times. Nothing like getting surrounded by hostile Smoke Demons and Hellwings on D:1!

A few times he's turned easy monsters into hard monsters, an Ogre into a Rockworm for example (on D:4), which then proceeded to kill me.

He also frequently hits you with fire, poison and lightning, though I've never been directly killed that way. Then there's the near-constant stat-dropping.

On the flip side, he's saved me a couple of times by confusing enemies, transmuting to statue/lich, summoning friendlies, and berserking me when I was almost dead.

Overall, though, the negatives outweigh the positives by a good margin.

 

[betamin]

Those two are probably the worst races to play chaos knight since they are slow paced, I take it you are doing it as a challenge?


Troll CK are fun, especially if you dive for a Jiyva altar.

 

[Zomg]

so now I need to figure out when to learn a weapon skill and dodging

You never really need weapon skill with a conjurer. I usually just use the first demon whip/sword/trident I find with a damage casting character and only use it to kill paper-thin enemies to save mana, which only needs a few skill levels. In older versions it was good to melee as much as possible just to build fighting but now you don't need to bother. And half the time you eventually find a crappy randart hand axe or something with a couple of good resists and you don't even do that.

Dodging you turn on once you start edging into midgame and leave it on either forever or at least until it's 15 or so.

Very few things resist lighting bolts, they'll kill undead, and it's a really nice spell for a conjurer. All the level 5 spells are much easier to reduce spell hunger to 0 with than level 6-9 spells, which get stuck on honeycomb until your int and spellcasting get really lategame huge. It's one of the best ways to heavily damage a single enemy for a long time by double-bouncing the bolt through them. Unfortunately it's also really loud and will get you killed by hordes of enemies if you try to use it as your one general purpose damage spell unless you are really conscientious about it.

 

[desocupado]

I don't like lightning bolt. It's my most hated spell TM.

It NEVER, NEVER hits anything. It's infuriating.

I've spent my whole mana using that shit spell to maybe hit once or twice.

Fuck that bullshit, it should be a lvl 3 spell, instead of 5, and even then it would still be shit.

As for damage source, if you're playing a conjurer, Mystic Blast. It's got high accuracy, decent damage, and it's surprisingly easy to cast.

But if you're worried about undead, yeah, Dispel Undead is totally worth it.

 

[Zomg]

Two things:

Accuracy of bolts and things is heavily dependent on spell power. Near-maxed power makes attacks more accurate and you really notice it in-game.

Second, I'm pretty sure lightning bolt has been rebalanced a couple of times over the last few versions and multiple things about it have changed (for example they made it impossible to hit an enemy three times with one shot of it now via bouncing; it can now double hit at most). I used to think it sucked for a few reasons, but I've used it in trunk, it was effective, you can "live off" it if you get it to high power and are mindful of the noise; it's good.

 

[Malakal]

I too hate lightning bolt and all the other electric spells. They suck for me, their damage is unreliable and they need constant attention to bounce.

On the other hand cloud spells are pure awesome. Freezing cloud is great, poison cloud is awesome and with ignite poison you also get fire cloud. Those three kill about everything. For more safety mystic blast and orb of AWESOME are required tho.

 

[trotof]

On the other hand cloud spells are pure awesome. Freezing cloud is great, poison cloud is awesome and with ignite poison you also get fire cloud. Those three kill about everything. For more safety mystic blast and orb of AWESOME are required tho.

Yeah, those are pretty much "I win" button. I once even tried to kill Cerebov with freezing cloud just for testing purposes and it worked out pretty easy.

 

[Reptilian Shapeshifter]

Those two are probably the worst races to play chaos knight since they are slow paced, I take it you are doing it as a challenge?


Troll CK are fun, especially if you dive for a Jiyva altar.

I finally got a mummy CK to level 18 after picking up a regen ring early (regen, +5 STR, +4 INT), and spellbooks with mephitic and poisonous cloud. Xom likes to confuse me at the worst possible times, but the automatic/random teleport of my teleport ring got me out several certain death situations. Confusion is really bad for mummies, as I can't drink any (healing) potions. He's constantly dropping my stats, worst of all INT which is currently 6 (18). As a mummy, I have no way to overcome this other than a ring of sustain abilities (haven't found yet) or permanently sacrificing 1 MP, which would be stupid.

I figured that a mummy CK would be more of a challenge than a naga because of the inability to drink potions or transmute, and also the low skill aptitudes. Nagas are horribly slow and need to eat, but I think in the long run, the mummy is tougher to play. The naga also gets AC bonuses which stack with transmuted forms.

...poison cloud is awesome and with ignite poison you also get fire cloud.

I wasn't even aware of this. Thanks.

 

[abstract]

Something appears at your feet!
Okawaru grants you a gift!
I - a pair of boots {god gift}
Wear which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You start putting on your armour.
You continue putting on your pair of boots {god gift}.
You finish putting on your -1 pair of boots {god gift}.

yeah thanks

 

[MisterStone]

Okawaru thinks you're a puss?

 

[Damned Registrations]

Just thought of this: What does he gift you if you're a Felid or Octopode?

 

[MisterStone]

OK so what the FUCK bros, I start up yet another game with a conjuror character and RIGHT THERE just six tiles away from me is a suit of +1 pearl dragon armor. That's practically the best armor in the game that a spellcaster could realistically use, +10 AC and -3 EV. Problem is, I have to get some armor skill to use it, and even then it will interfere not a little with my casting. Also, I need to have at least 9 str in order to avoid an even larger penalty

SO I am wondering, at low levels I can just wear this shit and carve through kobolds and rats with a shitty handaxe, no problem (I can still casting my magic dart spell, but nothing else). But once I am up against challenging critters such as ogres or gnoll packs I'm going to need to be able to gas those bitches with mephitic cloud, and that's not going to happen with the current casting penalties.

So at this point do I need to put the armor aside, and save it for when I can slightly beef up my str and armor skill, and get better casting stats? Should I consider trying to become a true hybrid and focus on melee? Is this armor really a good idea at any point of the game?

More importantly- why is the gaming fucking with me like this? I've played an ogre all the way through 6 sub brances and never found a single decent dragon armor, and now it just throws this shit at me in the FIRST ROOM FFS. FUck you, crawl, fuck you. Dammit, I got to stop playing this game...