Need help with NWN2

[Redeye]

1 cleric, 1 Shadowdancer, 1 Wizard, rest Monk.


(Or 9 Monk, remaining to Cleric or Wizard.)

 

[Teepo]

Isn't shadow dancer a prestige class?

So I get that later down the road?

 

[Roguey]

It's adorable seeing D&D newbs run around like headless chickens when it comes to character creation. I mean that in an endearing-not-condescending way, it's a lot of information to absorb.

For clarification, I don't want to start a fighter like last time, only to realize half way into the dreadful NWN2 campaign that my character is impotent.

You must have been doing something terribly wrong, fighters are one of the easiest (if boring) classes to play. A million buffs, kill, repeat. But if you think it's dreadful just skip it. It's not going to get better with a different character, just slightly faster, maybe.

 

[Black Cat]

Humans make good warlocks, in any case, given Warlocks get few feats so the extra one is really handy. If you are into LARPing, tiefling characters are pretty cool. Though the -2 CHA kind of hurts, +2 INT is balanced out by humans having +4/1 skill points. +2 DEX is useful, given Warlock's attacks are ranged touch stuffies.

This is getting complicated. How do you like the Planetouched?

Also the fact that Warlock doesn't cast spells and has ranged touch is a turn off.

But I've never played Warlock so I may as well. Int not too important on Warlocks?

Not at all. INT for warlocks is just about how many skill points they get. If you want to craft you may need a higher INT, but otherwise you just need enough to raise Spellcraft, so that you can get the cool Epic Spells, Bluff, if you want to be an exotic and sexy succubus warlock, a bit of UMD and lore (say, one point per level you give to UMD now and to Lore the next one), and, I don't know, concentration or something. So INT 12 would be pretty much enough for both a human (+4/1 skill points per level) or a Tiefling (+2 INT, which is exactly the same bonus as far as warlocks are concerned).

The only planetouched I did ever play was a Tiefling, and... What can I say? I love the LARPing element of a Tiefling Warlock, but it is hard to justify -2 CHA and -1 max level. And if you don't mod the game Tiefling girls have the ONLY kind of barely cute looking face in the entire game, so if aesthetics are important to you either download some new heads or go Tiefling. I wanted to play the water elemental thingie, but they are kind of worhtless in NWN2 and, uhm, really fugly. Mermaids they aren't.

Technically, though, a Warlock does cast spells, but not Arcane Spells. Her abilities are spell like ones, and they have many abilities that have the same effect as an spell or another, plus a bunch of 24hs buffs and enhacements. The advantage of a warlock, however, is that those thingies she can do, she can do ALWAYS. If you have the haste-like invocation, that means you can cast it as many times as you want, basicaly dancing circles around Lorne while you blast him with acid blasts. If you have Retributive Invisibility you can recast it always you want, basicaly making you able to maintain invisibility constantly up for the entire duration of battles as long as you recast it every two rounds. Like Retributive Invisibility, Charm, Charm, Retributive Invisibility, Charm, Charm, etc, so you are, at the very least, always fighting displaced. Etc.

And you get to tentacle rape enemies infinite times a day.

You pay for that by being much more focused than even a sorcerer, though.

 

[Teepo]

You must have been doing something terribly wrong, fighters are one of the easiest (if boring) classes to play. A million buffs, kill, repeat. But if you think it's dreadful just skip it. It's not going to get better with a different character, just slightly faster, maybe.

Except I don't need that many feats. I'm not going to be a dual wielding sword rapist.

I actually don't consider myself a D&D noob at all. Perhaps I am a D&D beginner but I have actually invested a lot of time into sorting out what goes into D&D and I'm ready to learn some more.

D&D is actually much more complicated then I originally thought years ago, so I'm sure you understand that D&D can not be understood instantly.

 

[Shannow]

What's it with guys wanting others to play their games for them? If they'd asked if they should about certain skills because they might be useless or presented a concept for their character build and asked if they overlooked anything critical... Or hell, if they'd at least checked the various chacter builds that float around the net and asked us our opinion... FFS, lazy bastards

For clarification, I don't want to start a fighter like last time, only to realize half way into the dreadful NWN2 campaign that my character is impotent.

The class system is complex and I don't know what I'm getting into. So before I invest +60 hours into a single character, I was hoping that somebody with more knowledge could confirm a positive choice for me, and inform me what NOT to do.

I like your fake indignation. I'm sure I can find somebody to force to "play" the game for me.

In other words, you can hang on to your clandestine knowledge if it's that important to you.

Seriously. What the fuck do you want me to do? Make a level 20 fighter and then have to frustratingly restart like you did or something? Or do I need to go in with mass amount of d&d knowledge?

If you can't get through the game with a fighter you should look for another hobby. Playing in traffic may just be the thing for you.

Fucking moron. You can get through with any single class character (and probably any multi-class one) unless you totally gimp yourself. The question is: What kind of character would you like to play?
But since you don't even have enough character to know what kind of character you'd like to play, RPGs might just not be the thing for you. Which brings me back to my suggestion: Go, play in traffic.

 

[Teepo]

Perhaps you are correct, Shannow, traffic sounds compelling.

 

[skyst]

Andyman has 18 charisma so it's hard not being swayed by what he says.

http://nwn2db.com/build.php?id=644&version=1

This is the Jaesun's Jack of hearts?

That's the one.

Do it.

 

[Roguey]

Except I don't need that many feats. I'm not going to be a dual wielding sword rapist.

But you said the character was impotent, I assumed you meant in regards to combat. You know you can rest anywhere without penalty right?

D&D is actually much more complicated then I originally thought years ago, so I'm sure you understand that D&D can not be understood instantly.

True. I can make decent characters but super-multiclassed powerbuilds go right over my head. But you don't need to do that at all in NWN2.

 

[Teepo]

Don't get me wrong, fighters are useful, but I don't understand why you are trying to trick me into playing a fighter.

I get a dwarf fighter companion. There's evidently a complicated amount of fun to be had with other classes. I've always wanted an Eldritch Knight character in D&D. The monk\cleric\wizard seems fun. I've never been a warlock, but I've had a fighter in every party in my TOEE game, because fighters are useful.

I think I was a fighter when I started NWN2 2 years ago. Big mistake but I knew nothing of D&D then even though I thought I did.

I'm not gonna play through original campaign and Mask of the Betrayer as a fighter, no thanks. As for what did i mean by impotent: I meant in general. Like if I started a player character Druid and then it turned out I get a Druid 5 minutes into the game. Or if it's hard to get through some areas because you need magic. Or if I don't have enough charisma so I don't get the full story.

Shit like that. I want to avoid redundancy and it seems I'm going to maybe even play a second time to try a monk or something.

 

[Teepo]

For the Warlock I have 8 Strength, 14 Dexterity, 14 Constitution, 8 wisdom (fuck will power saving throws, bro), 12 intelligence and 18 charisma.

Legit?

Also I've never managed to make any use of spellcraft. I don't understand why people make it mandatory. So there are spells a wizard doesn't get automatically that you have to "observe" off enemy characters?

That's p. groovy. Reminds me of the "examine enemy" command in that Jrpg Breath of Fire 3.

 

[Roguey]

Don't get me wrong, fighters are useful, but I don't understand why you are trying to trick me into playing a fighter.

I'm not? I am concerned that you had difficulty even with such a simple class.

I'm not gonna play through original campaign and Mask of the Betrayer as a fighter, no thanks. As for what did i mean by impotent: I meant in general. Like if I started a player character Druid and then it turned out I get a Druid 5 minutes into the game.

It's not like you need to use her. Plus Elanee's a dumb dirty pedophile stalker anyway.

Or if it's hard to get through some areas because you need magic.

By the time this happens you have access to two casters, but bad news, they're both super-annoying.

Or if I don't have enough charisma so I don't get the full story.

Unless you're making some powerbuild you'll always miss out on some checks, and as I recall, NWN2 has mutually exclusive exposition dumps from NPCs (e.g. you can get the cleric's backstory or the warlock's backstory but not both because influencing one comes at the expense of the other) so you'll always miss out on something. And that's fine because NWN2's story is terribly boring anyway.

 

[skyst]

For the Warlock I have 8 Strength, 14 Dexterity, 14 Constitution, 8 wisdom (fuck will power saving throws, bro), 12 intelligence and 18 charisma.

Legit?

Also I've never managed to make any use of spellcraft. I don't understand why people make it mandatory. So there are spells a wizard doesn't get automatically that you have to "observe" off enemy characters?

That's p. groovy. Reminds me of the "examine enemy" command in that Jrpg Breath of Fire 3.

Spellcraft tends to unlock magical prestiege classes.

 

[Mrowak]

For the Warlock I have 8 Strength, 14 Dexterity, 14 Constitution, 8 wisdom (fuck will power saving throws, bro), 12 intelligence and 18 charisma.

Legit?

Also I've never managed to make any use of spellcraft. I don't understand why people make it mandatory. So there are spells a wizard doesn't get automatically that you have to "observe" off enemy characters?

That's p. groovy. Reminds me of the "examine enemy" command in that Jrpg Breath of Fire 3.

Spellcraft tends to unlock magical prestiege classes.

In MotB it's also present in many dialogue options (if it's high enough).

 

[Teepo]

I'm not? I am concerned that you had difficulty even with such a simple class.

You're concerned for me? That's... sweet. I did not know that anybody on the Codex felt feelings. Feelings other then anger, of course.

No, but, perhaps "impotent" was the wrong word. What I meant was I intended to carry a character from level 1 to Mask of the Betrayer and was hoping to not pick a dipshit class like fighter, but NWN2 seems a bit more daunting then ToEE.

Perhaps you can answer a question, since you are not a D&D noob. So I was reading that it is redundant to get more then 12 levels in the fighter class. Do you know what people normally go for after they get 12 in fighter?

 

[laclongquan]

12 level of fighters is to get massive combat capability. To further boost it, you took 1 Bard to open the way into 7 level of Dragon Disciple to get massive bounty in attributes.

OF course, 7 levels of Weapon Master is a great thing, but it's too dependant on crit. Which any number of OC enemies shrug off.

Anyway, my style is skill point heavy so I advise you a thief mage. 1st level of thief to get maximum SP possible, then dual to wizard. Get up to 4 level of thieves so as to not entirely cripple mage. PRacticed Spellcaster help in that regard. Or exchance one thief level to fighter to get weapon/armor effiency.

Last thing, if you play goodie two shoes, you can go from neutral to lawful good around level 7-9. So any non lawful, non good, class you plan to lvel, do it in low.

 

[Azrael the cat]

If you are travelling with companions, keep in mind that there are no good bards in either NWN2 or MotB. Bards are massively buffed - arguably overpowered - even as straight-class characters in NWN2,, due to being able to spam the most powerful mass debuff in the game (it takes a feat, but it's worth getting). If you go elven, to get longsword ability, and choose your spells right, you can still be a fighter-mage powerhouse as a bard - choose any mid-term buffs that you intend to spam (ESPECIALLY THE GROUP BUFFS YOU GET LATER - like mass bulls strength, etc), as you'll cast them just as powerfully as a mage.

You'll have the charisma and skills to pass all checks and do the trial on your own (and pwn in MotB even more with its check-heavy dialogue). You can even take able learner early (2nd level at latest) and you can do away with the need for a thief (as I did on my first run - no need for Neeshka, as my bard could handle the thievery just fine).

Use your other spells for fighter-mage type buffs and utilities, rather than nukes. You can't out-nuke a mage, but you can cast those utility spells and buffs just as powerful as a same-level mage, allowing you to be a force in melee (with various magical armour spells) while buffing the absolute fuck out of your team to truly insane levells. Bard songs in NWN2 and MotB are massively powerful, and you can very quickly get to a level where you can spam them constantly (as you should - they are supposed to be much more spammable than spells - they're something you're supposed to keep playing all the time, not just for indiividual encounters - hp regeneration, mana regeneration, buff to all party members' skills (good when opening locks/crafting ahead of the intended level), curse song (requires a feat, starts off as a moderate debuff to all enemies in a decent range at low levels, becomes an INSANE and NO-RESISTANCE THROW debuff affecting virtually all aspects of enemy stats and capabilities at high levels, with an area large enough to occupy the entire battlefield, with no friendly fire), anti-arrows, etc.

Put that together, and with a group, bards are MUCH more powerful in NWN2 than their PnP coutnerparts - hell, even just adding the curse song and able learner feats would make them overpowered.

There is a SHORT period in NWN2 where you are solo, but I had no difficulties with my bard - just buffed up and went fighter-mage with curse song spammage. BUT if you want to buff your solo fighting ability, bard gives you a truly insane number of options - red dragon disciple being the most obvious. Similarly, you can buff your magic with a pure caster level, and buff your stealth (or magic) with a shadowdancer prestige class.

 

[Teepo]

Isn't it shameful to pick such an over powered class?

I mean, I'm sure it will be challenging still.

Okay. I'm doing Jaesun's build. http://nwn2db.com/build.php?id=644&version=1

It should be a good main character to test through the game so I can get a sense of how difficult it is.

Plus I can do away with the annoying as shit thief and ignore the halfing bard.

If I fuck up, I probably won't fuck up too hard since I'll be following Jaesun's build.

 

[zeitgeist]

I played with this bard, and it was a decent approximation of the playstyle of my DDO melee bard build, but without the dual wielding (which doesn't really work the same in DDO and NWN2). And in DDO, you could fit all relevant rogue skills into the build too.

 

[Xor]

Just find a build here: http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Character_builds

The OC and MotB are easy enough that you don't need a good build to beat them.

 

[Black Cat]

For the Warlock I have 8 Strength, 14 Dexterity, 14 Constitution, 8 wisdom (fuck will power saving throws, bro), 12 intelligence and 18 charisma.

Legit?

Yup. At least it is a good spread. I don't quite remember how many points you had to build a character.

Downgrade CON if you don't have enough points.

Also I've never managed to make any use of spellcraft. I don't understand why people make it mandatory. So there are spells a wizard doesn't get automatically that you have to "observe" off enemy characters?

For a Wizard spellcraft allows them to identify spells, even those spells they can't cast themselves, and thus pick the right spell for countermagick, at least when countermagick is actually implemented. In NWN2 I don't remembter if it is but you also get extra magical resistance every ten levels.

Spellcraft's main function for a Warlock, however, is to unlock some of the spell feat thingies you can get as Epic Feats. Epic Gate needs Spellcraft 27, Hellball needs Spellcraft 30, Vampiric Feast needs Spellcraft 24, etc. Epic Spells are pretty fun to use and add some very welcome variety to the Warlock's pewpewtastic arsenal. Extra magic resistance doesn't hurt, either.

Spellcraft, Alchemy, etc, allow for extra dialogue choices on the expansions and some modules. Justifying alchemy on a Warlock is kind of hard, however. Hell, justifying it on any character for purposes other than LARPing is kind of hard. Warlocks, who can spam invocations freely, just find it harder to justify than most.

 

[Teepo]

Thank you, Xor.

So Spirit Shaman seems p. bad.

 

[Qwertilot]

Well more specalised anti spirit which is only really very relevant in MoTB.

Arcane archer is another option that gives you something - very effective archery - that none of the companions really do.

Although I do have a serious soft spot for int based elf warriors. Needs an add in PRC pack for bladesinger but besides being a rather amusingly silly concept, actually rather effective as a defensive style warrior. (Swash/Mage in combo then Bladesinger then Duelist in MoTB.).