Game News Dead State, DoubleBear's Zombie RPG, To Go Kickstarter

[20 Eyes]

I love M&B but it's development (or lack thereof) is a bit disappointing. The list of possible updates was pretty awesome sounding, iirc. And we have almost exactly the same game we bought, with very little progress. Kinda like a predecessor to the Terraria incident. Is this a new business model?

Really? Did you buy M&B 6 months before the release or something? In the Mount&Blade I bought you could either fight in the arena or travel around fighting random bandits. The final version had a dynamic war system with 5 different factions, siege warfare, rebellions, as well as tons of characters, quests and loot. Sure, it could have been even better, but you can't claim there was no progress during the betas.

I can't tell you exactly when I got the game, I don't remember. I do remember reading a list from the developers detailing a bunch of awesome possible updates that never came to fruition, but I could be mistaken.

The final version had a dynamic war system with 5 different factions, siege warfare, rebellions, as well as tons of characters, quests and loot.

Besides the combat and the factions, which are pretty awesome and distinct, all of that stuff pretty much sucks. The characters are just stat spreadsheets. The world is static (besides what color the town name is), boring, and empty. The quests are boring. And while the combat and factions are phenomenal, they haven't been noticeably improved since I started playing, excluding Warband's added faction and minor gameplay tweaks. Everything apart from the combat is either dull, grindy, or dull and grindy.

I'm not saying it's a bad game. I'm glad I bought it and I put a lot of very enjoyable hours into it. But I expected the game to be much further along several years and two paid expansions ago.

 

[hiver]

@ ulminati
No you cant. You can do shitty.

 

[Elhoim]

You know what is really funny? We started talking with Brian about Kickstarter in September 2011. I even have the mail where he mentioned it, and I was like "WTF is that?". Then, we are now jumping the "bandwagon".

Oh, well, continue the bitching

Let me get this straight, in september you guys already had more than 3 years of development of DS, and had the idea to kickstart it. Then what you guys did? Lost momentum and paused development & updates.

Meanwhile, the 3 dudes were still working on SW:TOR. Then they quitted BioWare, created their own company, started working on Banner Saga, gave out some great interviews, released a trailer with great animation scenes & voice over and gameplay bits, launched their Kickstarter with great tiers rewards and ATM have 82/100k to make their game, a free multiplayer demo coming soon and a release date for Spring 2012.

Still on your high horses? You can have all the e-mails you want proving you had the idea first and the best game ever made sitting on your desk, but that doesn't mean anything if you can't make it happen and deliver it to the audience.

Say what you will about the 3 "unknown" dudes, that maybe they don't have any real gameplay, that they probably shot that video in a hurry using their iPhones, that they are name-dropping and jumped the bandwagon, whatever...I've seen that they are people that "make it happen", I believe that I'm going to get Banner Saga this year, play it and judge myself, and I can already see & understand Banner Saga in a much more complete way than I can see Dead State.

When you are right, you are right. You bring a good point. I hope that when we show what we have been working on (despite the slowdown), we'll convince you that this project can deliver.

 

[Castanova]

Good idea casanova. You should go back to your EA, Activision, Bethesda funded games. That's some quality shit there. I mean, why would you want to give experienced game developers $15 bucks, for what might be a truly kickass game. Apparently, Someone took your logic, and shoved it up your ass.

Are you retarded? I gave funding to Wasteland 2, the Double Fine game, and the Banner Saga. Apparently those are funded by EA, Activision, and Bethesda? Good to know.

hiver is nerd-raging/trolling because I said I didn't like reading Annie's forum posts. According to hiver, her company is entitled to my money to fund their vaporware development regardless of that. Which is extra-hilarious when you read Brian's admission that they couldn't even drum up the motivation to move the project forward on their own.

 

[hiver]

I didnt say anything about you giving any of your money to anyone, moron.
- and this is a second time im saying that to you on two pages. not a brightest tool in the shed are you?

 

[Castanova]

Not explicitly. But keep fighting the good fight, hiver.

Viva la resistance!

 

[felipepepe]

When you are right, you are right. You bring a good point. I hope that when we show what we have been working on (despite the slowdown), we'll convince you that this project can deliver.

Why, thanks, I didn't expect this. Very humble of you.

For the record, I've been interested in Dead State for some years, and really like the concept and all, but until now it's still more of a vaporware than a proper game...even AoD is going for his second demo any time now. I see you guys are doing it on spare time, and I've worked & freelanced for long years, so I know how sometimes you just wanna go home, get some sleep or just have some fun and say fuck it all...but if the developers lose insterest, so will their audience.

One of the joys of doing independent work is having no one above you demanding insane crushs or goal that are impossible to reach without comprising everything, but still you should set goals & dates and try tour best to reach them. I've worked and lead some (video) projects, indie and commercial ones, and I seen many times huge breakthroughs or great ideas poping out when we had to force ourselves to create a rough skeleton of the video. It had huge holes and placeholders, but it made easier to see what our next step should be, and we could send it to our contractors and co-workers to get some feedback, ideas and, why not, praise. It feels good man, seeing that awesome work you are doing take form, and people around excited, asking you to keep going. It reignites the passion.

IMHO it's about time you do something like that, do a demo or a badass video, show us what's been done in those 3 years, give them something to discuss and praise you, get people excited and anxious for more updates, and more importantly be excited again yourselves! Then chose a nice week and open your Kickstarter and you will see peoples support in form of dollars into your account, thousand of people giving money to keep going, it will definetly create a momemtum like no other before.

 

[Elhoim]

When you are right, you are right. You bring a good point. I hope that when we show what we have been working on (despite the slowdown), we'll convince you that this project can deliver.

Why, thanks, I didn't expect this. Very humble of you.

No prob. You are correct that we should have shown our progress more before coming back after 4 months with a KS, since it certainly seems that we were throwing the towel and just said "Hey, let's take moneyz with KS!"

For the record, I've been interested in Dead State for some years, and really like the concept and all, but until now it's still more of a vaporware than a proper game...even AoD is going for his second demo any time now.

Considering we are the AoD guys... That's something that improved the state of DS, since we made many improvements to the AoD engine that carried over to Dead State.

I see you guys are doing it on spare time, and I've worked & freelanced for long years, so I know how sometimes you just wanna go home, get some sleep or just have some fun and say fuck it all...but if the developers lose insterest, so will their audience.

One of the joys of doing independent work is having no one above you demanding insane crushs or goal that are impossible to reach without comprising everything, but still you should set goals & dates and try tour best to reach them. I've worked and lead some (video) projects, indie and commercial ones, and I seen many times huge breakthroughs or great ideas poping out when we had to force ourselves to create a rough skeleton of the video. It had huge holes and placeholders, but it made easier to see what our next step should be, and we could send it to our contractors and co-workers to get some feedback, ideas and, why not, praise. It feels good man, seeing that awesome work you are doing take form, and people around excited, asking you to keep going. It reignites the passion.

Well, in our particular case the problem was not exactly lack of motivation, but lack of time and proper income. Working on AoD for 6 years without any payment shows that we don't give up easily, and with the Combat Demo and the upcoming Public Beta we show that we can deliver.

Thing is, we had to take some day jobs to sustain ourselves, and we didn't have enough time to properly work on the game for a couple of months. In my case, I quit my job last February, and now I'm living on savings so I can properly focus on the game.

IMHO it's about time you do something like that, do a demo or a badass video, show us what's been done in those 3 years, give them something to discuss and praise you, get people excited and anxious for more updates, and more importantly be excited again yourselves! Then chose a nice week and open your Kickstarter and you will see peoples support in form of dollars into your account, thousand of people giving money to keep going, it will definetly create a momemtum like no other before.

Working on it, I hope you guys like what we have to show you

 

[Phelot]

Heh. Saw this one coming

 

[Fezzik]

I would donate to a Doublebear kickstarter. It's not a sure thing, but it's got competent folks behind it, including the AoD team, the AoD team's resources, and years of design work. Were it to succeed, it could synergistically benefit Iron Tower. It would be a bet on Indie gaming that I would have more faith and interest in than in most other indie projects.

 

[Metro]

Curious what Brian's reasonable time frame is -- he solicited feedback on that but was quick to caveat it. If you can't get it done in under two years from the Kickstarter then I'm probably not interested. Of course, the problem is after someone parts with their money... it's gone... and you are entirely at the mercy of the developer.

 

[Volrath]

Thing is, we had to take some day jobs to sustain ourselves, and we didn't have enough time to properly work on the game for a couple of months. In my case, I quit my job last February, and now I'm living on savings so I can properly focus on the game.

So are you in the same boat as VD? Hoping to make a permanent living from making video games?

 

[jewboy]

After seeing the success of FTL, a couple Chiinese guys with no history and no game development experience make 120k in such a short time I think everyone who has ever wanted to make games is gonna try. It would normally take me like 10 years to make that much money and I bet that's doubly true for those guys in China. I'm a half decent programmer myself and I love doing it. I wouldn't mind getting paid big bucks to write code 16 hours a days and pump out the C++ and inner loop ASM. All I'd need is an artist for the artwork and maybe I could make a small free game and then maybe get funded for a bigger project. This whole paradigm is revolutionary and bizarre. It may crash and burn or it might change the world beyond recognition, sort of like the internet itself.

 

[Livonya]

After seeing the success of FTL, a couple Chiinese guys with no history and no game development experience make 120k in such a short time I think everyone who has ever wanted to make games is gonna try. It would normally take me like 10 years to make that much money and I bet that's doubly true for those guys in China. I'm a half decent programmer myself and I love doing it. I wouldn't mind getting paid big bucks to write code 16 hours a days and pump out the C++ and inner loop ASM. All I'd need is an artist for the artwork and maybe I could make a small free game and then maybe get funded for a bigger project. This whole paradigm is revolutionary and bizarre. It may crash and burn or it might change the world beyond recognition, sort of like the internet itself.

FTL has a working demo, has won some awards for their game, and their game is nearly finished.

If you look at all the game's in Kickstarter there are far more games that failed to get any funding.

I joined the FTL Kickstarter last night after looking through every single video game that was available on Kickstarter. FTL was the only one I joined.

So I wouldn't over estimate the ease of success at doing a Kickstarter project.

I do agree that it is paradigm shift that could really open up the world to a lot of new and exciting games, but for the most part the developers are going to have to make a game first. So that part hasn't changed. But if you make a fun game you will be able to find an audience for it.

 

[hiver]

One thing to consider would certainly be to see how this cooperation between AoD and dead State teams or IT and Doublebear developing studios could benefit both.
The full demo and years of dedication and expertise, with using the same engine can certainly help Dead State as a backing point although im sure they will deliver their own content too.
But still, it makes the whole thing look more solid.

And when Doublebear goes to kickstarter it probably will mention something like... "in cooperation with IT studios, the devs behind Age of decadence".. look, here is a demo! visit the forums :link: :link:
So AoD gets some needed exposure.

I see only pluses in that sense and no minuses in sight.

 

[jewboy]

Yeah. I do get that as an unknown I'd have to have something real and playable to show. At least those biowhore guys had a job history. But I could make a really short, but deep game first. Then if people liked the game, $$$++. If people didn't then it's back to the drawing board. Originally I was thinking about making a free game at some point, but with kickstarter making games can be a real way for pretty much anyone to make a living as a game developer. I mean hell. You wouldn't even have to go to college anymore. For certain kinds of creative professions, the kickstarter thing could be a game changer. Cutting out publishers and gate keepers of all types. It's perhaps even more amazing for writers. Just release a chapter that people like and you don't have to care about whether any publisher happens to like it. Of course writers already had a non-publisher model by selling direct on Amazon. Brave new world and all that. Maybe.

 

[Livonya]

At some point I imagine someone will make a game engine that is essentially a mod platform. It won't have any game. It will just be a graphics engine that already has a scripting language that can be used by modding groups to make games. They will be able to sell the mod, or give it away.

I wonder what would happen if someone tried to crowd source a game engine that could be used by modding groups/game designers free of charge.

The one thing that we know is that a lot of consumers aren't getting what they want, and a lot of people want to make the games that they aren't getting... but getting those two parts together has been a struggle.

For example Dead State and AoD are using the same engine... I wonder what would happen if they crowd sourced the engine rather than the game.... crowd source what would become an open source project once completed.

The future will be different that much is for sure.

 

[Elhoim]

Thing is, we had to take some day jobs to sustain ourselves, and we didn't have enough time to properly work on the game for a couple of months. In my case, I quit my job last February, and now I'm living on savings so I can properly focus on the game.

So are you in the same boat as VD? Hoping to make a permanent living from making video games?

Yep, if AoD tanks I will have to get a real job

 

[VonVentrue]

Thing is, we had to take some day jobs to sustain ourselves, and we didn't have enough time to properly work on the game for a couple of months. In my case, I quit my job last February, and now I'm living on savings so I can properly focus on the game.

So are you in the same boat as VD? Hoping to make a permanent living from making video games?

Yep, if AoD tanks I will have to get a real job :p

I've always assumed you already have one. Isn't all the AoD-related work something you have been carrying out and focusing on in your spare time over the past few years?

 

[Marquess Cornwallis]

With a reasonably set target that correlates optimally with the leverage they've got (past projects and whatever they can show for Dead State) and a realistic due date, I don't see why this shouldn't work. I'd say the audience overlap with projects like Double Fine Adventure, W2 and the Banner Saga is less significant then it may appear (I'd only really advise against setting up a simultaneous drive for AoD, which is not going to happen anyway), it's got potential appeal for a number of various niche groups (zombie/survival horror fans).

Sure, I don't have as much faith in DS as in Schafer or Fargo in terms of project management, I see a significantly higher risk of delays, budget miscalculation, unrealistic ambitions, etc. (we all remember Cyclopean and Scars of War), but I still think venturing something like $25 is a completely acceptable risk even if nothing came out of it in the end. Best of luck to Brian and co., I hope it does work out.

 

[Elhoim]

Thing is, we had to take some day jobs to sustain ourselves, and we didn't have enough time to properly work on the game for a couple of months. In my case, I quit my job last February, and now I'm living on savings so I can properly focus on the game.

So are you in the same boat as VD? Hoping to make a permanent living from making video games?

Yep, if AoD tanks I will have to get a real job :p

I've always assumed you already have one. Isn't all the AoD-related work something you have been carrying out and focusing on in your spare time over the past few years?

In my particular case, I was able to work full time on AoD thanks to my family and some side jobs. Last year we had some hard economic times and I had to get a job, while working on both games. On February I quit that job (only teaching salsa right now as a side job), but if AoD tanks I will have to get something more "stable".

 

[felipepepe]

only teaching salsa right now as a side job.

Location: San Isidro, Argentina

Hermanos a hermanar...

 

[zeitgeist]

I'm skeptical but not so much of this game as games in general. It seems bound to happen that kickstarting will become de rigeur and then no one will get any benefit. At best people will be able to get 10K or something for a somewhat promising project and that's really a couple months worth of development or a few contracted art assets.

Maybe what's needed is more like kickfinisher, people get to the point they have a decent demo that shows off the gameplay before they take it to kickstarter.

Dead State doesn't seem like complete vaporware but it does seem a long way from done with no end in sight any time soon.

That's a problem with Kickstarter (and similar sites) really, ideally there should've been stricter rules for projects eligible to apply, with actual requirements in form of some specified amount of design docs, concept art, demos, and so on, and penalties for not following through. So Kickstarter would act more like a publisher.

Sadly, experience shows that if a team can't or doesn't want to produce anything tangible with little to no funding, giving them (more) money won't really help much. Except to improve their living conditions.

 

[Ausir]

I'll donate to a Double Bear kickstarter, but you guys should wait at least a month before you start it. Or two, if Obsidian starts theirs in the meantime.

 

[Elhoim]

only teaching salsa right now as a side job.

Location: San Isidro, Argentina

Hermanos a hermanar...

Me estás jodiendo... Si sos de San Isidro y salsero ya sería mucho jajajajaja