Planescape Characters

[TheGreatGodPan]

Why doesn't The Nameless One forget anything when you die in game?

 

[Drakron]

It only happens with a particular violent death.

 

[kingcomrade]

Why doesn't The Nameless One forget anything when you die in game?

It only happens if he is killed by the shadows that the Transcendent One sends. The TO knew that the shadows could never kill TNO, but they could keep him bewildered. He explains it at the game's final conversation.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

Nothing happens in game when the shadows kill you.

 

[Drakron]

Yes but that was the point, violent deaths would make TNO forget everything and that was what the shadows were trying to do ... obvious it was not violent enough when they kill him.

 

[Thrawn05]

Yeah, I forgot about them. They did build a stonghold there. I think they maintain at least a few gates from the mortuary in Sigil to the negative energy plane. So I guess they're actually more prevalent there than the Doomguard. I've always thought that the Dustmen were one of the more intersting factions, with their belief that all reality in the metaverse is simply a shadow of a better existence. They'll kill anything living in an effort to help them along the path to true daeth, but they aren't openly militant like the Doomguard.

The dustmen are really a unique group of people that's for sure. They never really explained why they feel this way IIRC.

 

[kingcomrade]

Nothing happens in game when the shadows kill you.

He has a new journal.

Also, when you are talking to the final boss, one of the conversation options is something like:
But when I die I don't lose my memories anymore, you are failing etc.

 

[Thrawn05]

Nothing happens in game when the shadows kill you.

He has a new journal.

Also, when you are talking to the final boss, one of the conversation options is something like:
But when I die I don't lose my memories anymore, you are failing etc.

Hmmm, my stats must be messed up since I didn't see that option. It's been a long time anyway so I might have forgotton that one.

 

[WouldBeCreator]

http://www.wischik.com/lu/senses/pst-book.html

I can't find any mention of it being death by shadows that causes the forgetting, but maybe I'm missing something (or maybe the guy who did this didn't get that dialogue).

 

[kingcomrade]

Well what I got from the game, besides at the end conversation where TO tells TNO that he sends out the shadows to steal his memories and the conversation option is part of another one, it's buried in text, but I distinctly remember it. I wish I had kept my savegame from the end so I could be more precise. Also, I can't find my utility which allows me to read PST dialogue, I'll have to download it again and I'll paste the text here.
Anyways, there was the bit in that alleyway, where it was the last time he lost his memories, because the shadows caught up with him and killed him. Not exactly a violent death, but it caused him to lose his memories and undergo a personality shift.

I am mistaken about it only being shadows, though. I just remembered, when he was first made immortal, Ravel killed him as a test and he lost his memories. It's just that in the game TNO has overcome the amnesiatic quality of himself. Like I said, I'll find the text using that utility and paste it for you guys.

 

[kingcomrade]

Found it:
ASK YOUR QUESTIONS. BUT KNOW YOU SHALL NEVER REMEMBER THE ANSWERS.

"I may be immortal, but Ravel told me the ritual was flawed: Whenever I die, I lose a fraction of my mind. In time, after many deaths, I shall lose the ability to even think for myself."

IT IS OF NO MATTER. YOU CANNOT DIE. YOUR MIND MAY BE LOST, BUT YOUR FLESH WILL LIVE ON. THAT IS ALL THAT IS NEEDED.

"'Needed?' Why?"

WE SHARE A LINK, YOU AND I, HOWEVER SMALL. I DO NOT WISH YOU DESTROYED, ONLY FAR FROM ME.

"Then why have you been trying to *kill* me all this time?"

IT IS OF *NO* CONSEQUENCE.

"Wait... those shadows you sent against me -- they never succeeded in killing me... but that was never their *purpose,* was it? They only 'kill' me to make me forget."

THERE IS *NOTHING* IN YOUR SHELL OF A MIND THAT IS OF CONSEQUENCE, BROKEN ONE.

"Except one thing - now I know where you are and what you are, I could tell others, or find you again myself. One day I might remember how to reach you, and you will have to face me again. That's why you want me to forget, isn't it?"

I SEE TIME'S BLADE HAS NOT BLED YOUR MIND OF ALL REASON. MY PURPOSE WAS ALWAYS SUCH: TO MAKE YOU FORGET.

"But *why?* Why do-"

BECAUSE I NEVER AGAIN WISH TO SUFFER YOUR *PRESENCE,* BROKEN ONE. YOU ARE AN IRRITATION, A REMINDER OF WHAT LIFE ONCE WAS, AND I DETEST SUCH REMINDERS. I WISH TO BE LEFT IN PEACE IN MY FORTRESS.

<NO TEXT>

AS YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN ME, I WISH TO FORGET YOU. FOREVER.

"But I no longer forget when I die. Perhaps once, but no longer."

YOU LIE. YOU HAVE ALWAYS FORGOTTEN. AND I HAVE ALWAYS REMEMBERED. IT WAS ALWAYS SUCH.

"'Always' doesn't mean what it once did. I have died, time and again, and my memories have returned to me."

YOUR DECEPTIONS WILL NOT *SHIELD* YOU HERE, BROKEN ONE.

"It is the truth. Killing me won't stop me - because killing me doesn't make me *forget* anymore. I'll know you always, I'll remember everything you've done, how to reach here, and eventually, how to destroy you."

THEN I SHALL IMPRISON YOU, NAMELESS ONE. IF YOU WILL NOT FORGET, THEN I SHALL NOT ALLOW YOU TO BE FREE.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

That still leaves the question: why is he no longer forgetting?

 

[WouldBeCreator]

At that point, I believe the reason the player is able to say that is that he's unlocked the Bronze Sphere, which may stop the forgetting process. Dunno though.

 

[kingcomrade]

No, one of the triggers listed in the program I used to cut and paste all of that is that you have to have died at any point in the game. If you've died once (rather than multiple times) you get a slightly different dialogue option, and if you've never died you don't get to select this option. So, it's not just after you get the bronze sphere, but at any time in the game.

Pan: I'm not sure, actually. It might just be because you are "special" this time around because the game is centered on this part of TNO's life, if you understand what I mean. I might check around later and see the dialogues with Ravel and the Good Incarnation and see if I find anything.

 

[Gnidrologist]

I could've been missed out something important, but as it has settled in my mind the previous incarnations of NO lost their memory when they got to the Fortress of Regrets and lost the struggle with shadows/TO. Not just by ''casually'' dying at any time.
In the final dialogue TO says something along the lines ''you will die now and forget everything again bla bla.. just liek previously'' which implies, that NO memory loss is soemthing that has been directly linked with Fortress, TO and shadows.
Maybe I'm just making things up though.

Althogh that leaves only 3 previous incarnatoins in totall, those that you meet in the final.
I'm still confused about this part of the plot.
The scene when you meet ''practical'', ''good'' and ''paranoid'' versions of yourself still looks like more of some kind of symbolic cleverness made by writer than an actual plot device that could be explained in a racional way.

 

[kingcomrade]

No, you lost your memory whenever you died before. The first time after you gain you your immortality, Ravel kills you to see if it worked, and you come back to life but you've lost your memory.

The Practical Good and Paranoid ones were the only ones to reach the Fortress of Regrets and they are stuck inside TNO's mind (as they were previous personalities). The reason they appear is because of the Crystal Prison that the Transcendent One tries to capture you with (during your fight with Ignus). Deionarra is the one who saves you, after you've dealt with your own alternate personalities.

 

[Antagonist]

One of the inscriptions in TNO's tomb mentions some kind of prophecy that at one point he would stop losing his memories. It was never explained in full detail though. I believe it was meant as a hint for people who wondered why he keeps his memories without destroying the mystery about his past.

 

[WouldBeCreator]

Couldn't find that inscription (did you mean: "Memories are gone, perhaps never to return"?) but found this one, which send shivers through me even after so many playthroughs and so many years since playing the game:

The greater need, however, is that the sources of information you use to uncover this mystery need to be protected when they are found. If key figures, documents or oracles are somehow removed, either by death or destruction, then you will never know who or what you are or how you came to be this way.

Goddamn that game was put together well. So many connections forward and backward.

 

[Darkseid]

I believe the inscription was something to the effect of TNO having to suffer 3 subsequent deaths before he'd begin to retain his memories. One of the dialogue lines in Ravel's maze has her explaining that your memory is somehow bound to your mortality.

 

[Tris McCall]

Couldn't find that inscription (did you mean: "Memories are gone, perhaps never to return"?) but found this one, which send shivers through me even after so many playthroughs and so many years since playing the game:

The greater need, however, is that the sources of information you use to uncover this mystery need to be protected when they are found. If key figures, documents or oracles are somehow removed, either by death or destruction, then you will never know who or what you are or how you came to be this way.

Goddamn that game was put together well. So many connections forward and backward.

Yes, that gives me the chills just re-reading it.... all these years since playing the game.

I should really give it another play-through. It's the only game I liked that I've never replayed, because it meant so much to me that I felt like I'd cheapen the memory by rehashing any of it. But 1999 was a long time ago.

 

[Kairal]

It's definietely not just the shadows. Does anyone remember, I think it's when you talk to Morte about the extra line on your back he tells you about an incarnation who thought he was your skull and chased him around Sigil until being killed by a runaway cart. Sounds like he died for good and a new incarantion was born.

Also only the Practical incarnation made it to the Fortress of Regrets. I think you're told that the three incarnations were the three closest to the surface of your mind. Probably because you keep hearing about them. Anyway gotta go I'll finish this later.

 

[Jora]

The shadows were used to kill the people that might lead TNO to the fortress so that he would never find it again.

The reason for TNO not forgetting anything is not explained but it's indeed a prophecy The Paranoid Incarnation heard and mentioned in his journal.

 

[MINIGUNWIELDER]

basicly its Vecna got in because some they wanted him to and damn if something as "setting intregity" was getting in their way.

http://greyhawkonline.com/pitsofevil/v2 ... =ravenloft found here

I am about to make this sound alot simpler than it is...

Back in the long, long ago, Vecna created a stone tablet upon which he wrote a spell. This was no mere spell, no this spell was pure magic! A true dwoemer, a tenth level spell.

Vecna masked his signature so that those who examined the spell would not connect the dwoemer with Vecna and placed the tablet deep and away so that it would not be easily found.

After Vecna was imprisoned within the misty shores, the tablet was found. The power of the tablet attracted the attention of certain deities, specifically Iuz. Iuz carefully studies the tablet and discovered that it siphoned the power of a god into the caster. Knowing what this would be a way for him to ascend the chart of divinity and destroy a rival or three, he began his work.

Iuz found the Hand and Eye of Vecna and marched to Tovag Baragu where he would cross the planar boundaries and enter Ravenloft (the back door and possibly only entry for gods other than through the Dark Powers). When Iuz confronted Vecna, the true power of the spell was revealed. Since no mere mortal could possible cast a true dwoemer, the spell's ctual intent is to channel the caster into the target. It was Vecna's plan when he made the spell that someone would, ultimately, try to use it against him.

Bristling with the power of Iuz, and reclaiming his hand and eye, he grasped the misty fabric of Ravenloft (weakened by Iuz's entry while possessing diefic power) and tore a hole into it. He was powerful enough to defy the Lady of Pain's Laws and enter Sigil directly.

Sloughing off the excess power, he maintained his position within the Cage and took hold of the Armory. Within the walls of the Doomguard Faction Headquarters he planned to re-channel the energy gained from Iuz and ascend to greater god within the City of Doors.

sounds reasonable

 

[WouldBeCreator]

Wow, that made me hate AD&D even more, and the misspelling of "dweomer" was only the tip of the iceburg.

 

[MINIGUNWIELDER]

SCREW YOU!!!


.....yeah i only like 2.5 for ravenloft, greyhawk, planescape, and dragonlance

and tieflings werent underpowered gimps they were a race consisting primarily of badass CN rouges with repeating crossbows

oh and the fact that lord soth exists in the Dragonlance books links all the decent campaign settings together

....ill shut up now