From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

[Black]

I'm sorry, you're gonna have to make a petition and get around 30k signatures if you want me to reply to you. Be grateful, sugar.

 

[Damned Registrations]

You need an extra key for running as opposed to walking. So w+d + (run key) + (shield key) + (dodge/jump key).

Shield could be mapped to mouse, but then you're likely mapping both buttons as your hands, and each has 2 kinds of standing attack with each hand, so you'd need a modifier key or other buttons to do those, which opens up other situations.

And for the third time, analog movement. Keyboards can't do it. Inferior. Mouse control on the camera is better as your tradeoff, but thats a bad tradeoff to make on a game balanced around a clunky camera with fine movement control. Imagine swapping wasd and mouse movement functions on a PC game, so the previously fine mouse control becomes clunky and the previously clunky wasd becomes fine tuned. Not a good plan.

 

[20 Eyes]

I'm sorry, you're gonna have to make a petition and get around 30k signatures if you want me to reply to you. Be grateful, sugar.

Sure is butthurt in here.

 

[Cassidy]

Rushed port means no support for the kind of analog control(joystick) I have a interest at because of how much I like flight sims.

Plus so far I haven't seen nothing all games in the Gothic series and Risen haven't done better and with exploration as a plus* and I'm not really into action RPGs** or that desperate to cope with GFWL and lack of keybinding and support for any kind of joystick other than the PS3 and Xbawks ones.

Truth be told so far I don't really have a solid opinion on the game itself, although there is a reason why certain PC games were never ported and why some arcade games are better played on an arcade machine, such being they were so fine-tuned with the limitations and capabilities of their original platforms a port would inevitably be disappointing. Everything points out that there is no good reason to get the port and anyone that desperate for the specific genre that hates all PC action RPGs for some funny reason should just get a PS3 and buy the original instead.

*Gothic 4: ArcaniA does not exist.

**I enjoy the Gothic games more for its exploration and factional mechanics, although I also like their combat. I bet meanwhileInPoland raged because of trying to play one of the Gothics with a gamepad.

 

[20 Eyes]

The thing is Demons and Dark Souls aren't like other action RPGs. I've heard that the King's Field (also From Software) are somewhat similiar, but I've personally never played anything that closely resembles either of the Souls games.

 

[Average Manatee]

Playing DMC3 on PC, I need to use 2 direction keys + charge up to 2 attacks + hold space to target + Q or E to switch weapons while still mashing one of my other attacks. Its nigh impossible to play the different styles in DMC3 well on a controller without swapping the button positions every time you change over (different styles require holding and pressing different combinations of buttons), but a keyboard can cope with any style setup easily. As I said though, DkS is nothing like this so it won't have the same problems, but this illustrates how KB is certainly a lot much easier to use in some situations.

I really see no reason analog movement is needed in combat. 8 directional control means you can pinpoint the direction you want to aim in with a maximum error of 22.5 degrees, or only 11.25 error on average. The acceptable margin of error is simply far greater than that attacks lock on well over that range. I also highly doubt many players are actually able to instantly move directionally with that accuracy anyway. The only time such increased accuracy matters is during extended one-directional running where KB will slowly drift away from where you want to go, but its hardly a problem.

If they go the full WASD-mouse combination that will be more than ample as well, far surpassing controller accuracy. But even simple KB-only control is probably easier for most people.

 

[Jaesun]

http://www.vg247.com/2012/04/17/die-another-day-going-masochist-with-dark-souls-on-pc/

First up, support for a keyboard and mouse will be included but minimal, with Miyazaki recommending use of a game pad and confirming that the menu and inventory screens will remain unaltered. Graphic options will be similarly sparse, which Miyazaki attributes to Namco Bandai requesting that the game be a “straight port”; this may even rule out optimisation in areas such as Blighttown and New Londo Ruins where the developer’s technical achievements on console were not able to quite match that of their artistic vision, resulting in frame-rate issues.

 

[Black]

http://www.vg247.com/2012/04/17/die-another-day-going-masochist-with-dark-souls-on-pc/

First up, support for a keyboard and mouse will be included but minimal, with Miyazaki recommending use of a game pad and confirming that the menu and inventory screens will remain unaltered. Graphic options will be similarly sparse, which Miyazaki attributes to Namco Bandai requesting that the game be a “straight port”; this may even rule out optimisation in areas such as Blighttown and New Londo Ruins where the developer’s technical achievements on console were not able to quite match that of their artistic vision, resulting in frame-rate issues.

So what, you get what you asked for, a port, don't feel so entitled, they didn't even have to give it to you, you know!!

 

[Damned Registrations]

I didn't mean analog as in angle (you move relative to the camera you're controlling with the mouse anyways) but for pressure/speed. While you may not want to creep along at a snail's pace during combat, you may want to outside of combat for either stealth purposes or to avoid hazards or get a precise camera angle looking down a cliff or something without falling off. There was an area where I used my bow to snipe people below me from the edge of a cliff- I shudder to think how much more difficult it would have been to get close enough to the edge without falling to my death if I were using a keyboard. There are other ways to do the same thing, but I shouldn't be restricted from doing it the way I wanted by bad controls.

Also, if I try to hold wdespace I get

'wd '

if I use q instead of e it works properly and I get

'wdq                        '

. So I'd be fucked every time I needed to hold wd and hit q, even assuming everything else worked fine. If any of the styles require some ungoldy input (3 face buttons at once or right analog + a face button qualifies imo) on a controller, that is indeed shitty control. But that's not the fault of the controller as an input device. Someone just wrote a shitty control scheme. I wouldn't blame keyboards if someone remapped movement to qp5x instead of wasd for their game.

 

[Crooked Bee]

http://www.vg247.com/2012/04/17/die-another-day-going-masochist-with-dark-souls-on-pc/

First up, support for a keyboard and mouse will be included but minimal, with Miyazaki recommending use of a game pad and confirming that the menu and inventory screens will remain unaltered. Graphic options will be similarly sparse, which Miyazaki attributes to Namco Bandai requesting that the game be a “straight port”; this may even rule out optimisation in areas such as Blighttown and New Londo Ruins where the developer’s technical achievements on console were not able to quite match that of their artistic vision, resulting in frame-rate issues.

Holy shit it's like they're doing everything for the port to fail sales-wise.

I will still buy it to support one of the best action RPGs of all time and From Software, but boy, they're doing it wrong (tm).

 

[Average Manatee]

I didn't mean analog as in angle (you move relative to the camera you're controlling with the mouse anyways) but for pressure/speed. While you may not want to creep along at a snail's pace during combat, you may want to outside of combat for either stealth purposes or to avoid hazards or get a precise camera angle looking down a cliff or something without falling off. There was an area where I used my bow to snipe people below me from the edge of a cliff- I shudder to think how much more difficult it would have been to get close enough to the edge without falling to my death if I were using a keyboard. There are other ways to do the same thing, but I shouldn't be restricted from doing it the way I wanted by bad controls.

Does DkS even have granular detection for movement speed? I'm pretty sure it doesn't, though I haven't thoroughly tested. If it doesn't then a walk key is better than a stick, since you can walk at 100% walk speed while not being detected instead of walking at around 70-90% walk speed with a stick.

The "getting close to an edge without falling" has nothing to do with the input method, but how well you know the game's cutoff between "you are standing on firm ground" and "you are now dead", which is different from game to game. Unless it turns out that keyboards have some ugly input delay or something of course, then all bets are off.

Also, if I try to hold wdespace I get

'wd '

if I use q instead of e it works properly and I get

'wdq                        '

. So I'd be fucked every time I needed to hold wd and hit q, even assuming everything else worked fine. If any of the styles require some ungoldy input (3 face buttons at once or right analog + a face button qualifies imo) on a controller, that is indeed shitty control. But that's not the fault of the controller as an input device. Someone just wrote a shitty control scheme. I wouldn't blame keyboards if someone remapped movement to qp5x instead of wasd for their game.

It's not a problem within a single style on controllers. The problem is that the buttons you need to hold down, the ones you need to press constantly, and the ones you don't need at all change depending on the style you use. That means every time you want to switch from Sword Master to Gunslinger for a new mission you have to rebind keys and get over your mental conditioning on what buttons do what. Thankfully keyboards don't have this problem.

First up, support for a keyboard and mouse will be included but minimal, with Miyazaki recommending use of a game pad and confirming that the menu and inventory screens will remain unaltered. Graphic options will be similarly sparse, which Miyazaki attributes to Namco Bandai requesting that the game be a “straight port”; this may even rule out optimisation in areas such as Blighttown and New Londo Ruins where the developer’s technical achievements on console were not able to quite match that of their artistic vision, resulting in frame-rate issues.

If it's a straight port then what's up with the new bosses and shit?

It does sound more and more like someone in charge of the project is being forced into the PC version thanks to the petitions and is trying to do their best to make it fail so that they never have to deal with PCs again. Or they are just completely inept and letting Microsoft tell them all about how ports "should" be done.

 

[Jaesun]

Holy shit it's like they're doing everything for the port to fail sales-wise.

I will still buy it to support one of the best action RPGs of all time and From Software, but boy, they're doing it wrong (tm).

Sometimes it is good to make a stand hon for what is right. But, they clearly do not get the PC audience and are doing this only for a money grab. That's is just my opinion.

 

[Antagonist]

The bell tower gargoyles are a good example of how the game fucks with the player. Here is a boss (not very hard 1 on 1, admittedly), halfway through the fight here is a second boss and then shit gets brutal.

It's also a good example of how to use the terrain to your advantage. Since the boss area is an angular roof some horizontal attacks will go over your head if the height difference between you and the gargoyle is big enough. I've used this mainly to regenerate stamina without having to keep my shield up while still staying near that thing to quickly mount a counter attack. It's also generally useful to know the attack range. For instance, some of Sif's attack combos have the property that if the first one misses due to range then the subsequent 2-3 strikes will miss as well. Perfect opportunity to gulp an estus flask or stamina regeneration.

 

[Suicidal]

When a PC game gets ported to a console it doesn't force you to plug in a mouse and keyboard into it. Same should hold in reverse. How can you say that the game will be horrible with kb+m without actually trying? Many people herpderped about how Devil May Cry games were unplayable with a keyboard and you NEED to get a controller but I played all the PC ports with the keyboard. It took some time to get used to, but in the end I had no problems with it and it felt comfortable. Not making at least some m+kb support is lazy. They could have at least made it like DMC and add only keyboard support, can't be that hard, right? If people want to play it on a gamepad, by all means, keep your gamepad support, but at least give us an option to choose. I don't feel like buying a piece of plastic crap just to play one game and never use it after that.

 

[Berekän]

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/namco...own-game-dark-souls-pc-to-be-locked-on-30fps/

That was revealed in Famitsu’s interview with Miyazaki. As Miyazaki said, the PC version would be identical with the console versions. A straight port with no change in resolution and he specifically says not to expect 60fps. Oh, and don’t expect any kind of optimizations for the PC. As Miyazaki said:

“Yes, It’s basically a faithful port. There’s no change to the resolution.​

The frame rate won’t be 60 FPS.”​

Then they'll blame it on piracy and won't release another game in PC ever. I was excited to finally be able to play this game on PC, but given how shitty they're making the port I hope it tanks.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

No 60 fps?

Okay now the game is really dead to me.

 

[Black]

Oh, and don’t expect any kind of optimizations for the PC.

Yeah, so PC players can experience the best what the console world has to offer.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-31-dark-souls-developer-apologises-for-frame-rate-issues

Cheap fucks, but hey, if you want anything more- you're an entitled PC crybaby.

 

[made]

Hahahahaha stupid gaijin. You should be thankful Furomu Softuwaru give you port at all of greatest RPG of all time.

 

[Volrath]

Don't really care about gamepads vs keyboard/mouse. The thing I was looking forward to was playing Blighttown at a consistent framerate, but it looks like I won't even get that.

Shitty port will be shitty, news at 11.

Sigh.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Holy shit it's like they're doing everything for the port to fail sales-wise.

I will still buy it to support one of the best action RPGs of all time and From Software, but boy, they're doing it wrong (tm).

Sometimes it is good to make a stand hon for what is right. But, they clearly do not get the PC audience and are doing this only for a money grab. That's is just my opinion.

You pussy! Just tell her that its fucking wrong. No honey coating. That's is just my opinion.

 

[RK47]

This thread... .. how can things go from positive and so bad so quickly? Whoever defended the porting company needs a reality check - this game isn't free. I still have to pay for this.

 

[Black]

This thread... .. how can things go from positive and so bad so quickly? Whoever defended the porting company needs a reality check - this game isn't free. I still have to pay for this.

There are... other methods. But we should speak about this in private.

 

[GreyViper]

Meh fans will fix it as allways. And if they dont well atleast the game will provide armor models that can be riped off and ported to Skyrim. I do hope it wont end up as another RE4 port, that one was so bad, it was hilarious.

 

[praetor]

Plus so far I haven't seen nothing all games in the Gothic series and Risen haven't done better and with exploration as a plus*

huh? exploration is one of the better aspects of the Souls series. and the combat is miles ahead in its sophistication and depth (it's like comparing CoD*[gothics] to UT'99[souls]). the other rpgs aspects (quests etc..) are much better in the gothics, but the actual "action" part is vastly inferior

and I'm not really into action RPGs**

so what are you doing here?

or that desperate to cope with GFWL

not confirmed and it may very well be changed if the bamco rep on their forums is to be trusted

and lack of keybinding and support for any kind of joystick other than the PS3 and Xbawks ones.

and how do you know that? for all we know "minimal keyboard support" might very well mean "we just covered the basics, i.e. you can remap the keys". and where did you read that only ps3 and xbawks gamepads will be supported? if anything, the ps3 is not officially supported on the pc since it requires a "hacky", user-made driver to function properly (one that hasn't been updated in a year or two)

 

[20 Eyes]

and lack of keybinding and support for any kind of joystick other than the PS3 and Xbawks ones.

and how do you know that? for all we know "minimal keyboard support" might very well mean "we just covered the basics, i.e. you can remap the keys". and where did you read that only ps3 and xbawks gamepads will be supported? if anything, the ps3 is not officially supported on the pc since it requires a "hacky", user-made driver to function properly (one that hasn't been updated in a year or two)

Nah, bro we know this for 100% fact because we're on the Codex. We also know technical specifics about Dark Souls because Resident Evil 4 had a bad port, and it was also done by Japanese (probably by some of the same people, but who can tell them apart anyway?). We're now morally obligated to pirate it and then bitch and moan because nobody wants to make games for us.