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Assload of new OB-screens + videos courtesy of the Germans

Twinfalls

Erudite
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
3,903
!HyPeRbOy! said:
I like this one alot:

1142698616_43779_original.jpg

Hey cool, the Arena's got a big fantasy CRPG advertising poster right out the front.

Those blurry ground textures on the first outdoor shots sure look 'next-gen'.
 

Teb

Novice
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
22
Locue said:
micmu said:
While you bitches are graphics whoring nobody noticed that mana is regenerating faster than in fucking diablo. What is this shit!?
Well, Oblivion is about fancy graphics. They really don't have anything else to brag about, other than Wonder Woman, or do they?
I'm not buying Oblivion for the fancy graphics but for the lore and world. Bethesda always make an interesting world, in my opinion, but that is something that is often ignored by those who say it is all about graphics.

Why has no one critiqued the fiction released during the countdown? Instead, everyone is focused on looking for flaws in the videos and the pictures.

Here is some fiction released, officially and unofficially, by the writers for Oblivion:
The Mysterium Xarxes - Book 1
The Mysterium Xarxes - Book 2
The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga Fight One, "The Eating-Birth of Dagon"
The Seven Fights of the Aldudagga Fight Two, "How Herkel the Fool Became a Clever Man"

You can claim that the gameplay sucks, that the roleplaying is just dress up, that the graphics are imperfect, that many aspects are bad, but the worlds always have more depth than most RPGs.

You might not like their world or their fiction but how many RPGs have such detailed lore?
 

sheek

Arbiter
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Cydonia
Teb said:
Locue said:
micmu said:
While you bitches are graphics whoring nobody noticed that mana is regenerating faster than in fucking diablo. What is this shit!?
Well, Oblivion is about fancy graphics. They really don't have anything else to brag about, other than Wonder Woman, or do they?
I'm not buying Oblivion for the fancy graphics but for the lore and world. Bethesda always make an interesting world, in my opinion, but that is something that is often ignored by those who say it is all about graphics.

Why has no one critiqued the fiction released during the countdown? Instead, everyone is focused on looking for flaws in the videos and the pictures.

[snip]

You can claim that the gameplay sucks, that the roleplaying is just dress up, that the graphics are imperfect, that many aspects are bad, but the worlds always have more depth than most RPGs.

You might not like their world or their fiction but how many RPGs have such detailed lore?

Nobody has critiqued the 'lore' because the 'lore' sends most people... to sleep!

It's a steaming pile of shit. Even Pete Hines said so...
 

Data4

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
5,529
Location
Over there.
Teb said:
Locue said:
micmu said:
While you bitches are graphics whoring nobody noticed that mana is regenerating faster than in fucking diablo. What is this shit!?
Well, Oblivion is about fancy graphics. They really don't have anything else to brag about, other than Wonder Woman, or do they?
I'm not buying Oblivion for the fancy graphics but for the lore and world. Bethesda always make an interesting world, in my opinion, but that is something that is often ignored by those who say it is all about graphics.

Why has no one critiqued the fiction released during the countdown? Instead, everyone is focused on looking for flaws in the videos and the pictures.

Here is some fiction released, officially and unofficially, by the writers for Oblivion:
The Mysterium Xarxes - Book 1
The Mysterium Xarxes - Book 2
The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga Fight One, "The Eating-Birth of Dagon"
The Seven Fights of the Aldudagga Fight Two, "How Herkel the Fool Became a Clever Man"

You can claim that the gameplay sucks, that the roleplaying is just dress up, that the graphics are imperfect, that many aspects are bad, but the worlds always have more depth than most RPGs.

You might not like their world or their fiction but how many RPGs have such detailed lore?

You've basically summed up why I still plan on getting the game. I just wish the lore and the gameplay would mesh a little better.

Sheek, just thought you'd like to know, your Chefe impression sucks.

-D4
 

Teb

Novice
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
22
sheek said:
Nobody has critiqued the 'lore' because the 'lore' sends most people... to sleep!

It's a steaming pile of shit. Even Pete Hines said so...
You and Pete Hines have no appreciation for lore? Interesting.
 

sheek

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
8,659
Location
Cydonia
Data4 said:
Teb said:
Locue said:
micmu said:
You've basically summed up why I still plan on getting the game. I just wish the lore and the gameplay would mesh a little better.

Sheek, just thought you'd like to know, your Chefe impression sucks.

-D4

I'm impersonating Chefe? Where the fuck do you get these ideas from?

You (and Ted) are just mad I critiqued your precious 'lore'... well sorry, but that's what Ted asked for! Pete Hines said that the TES writers consider their work a load of bullshit and I think he gets paid to know what he's talking about.
 

Teb

Novice
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
22
sheek said:
You (and Ted) are just mad I critiqued your precious 'lore'... well sorry, but that's what Ted asked for! Pete Hines said that the TES writers consider their work a load of bullshit and I think he gets paid to know what he's talking about.
I'm curious, what did Pete actually say?

Nevertheless, I wouldn't trust Pete to tell me what is good or bad in a RPG. I would go to Ted Peterson or Michael Kirkbride, two of the most well-known writers, since they actually have read the lore and talk about it a lot on the ES Lore forum. :)
 

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
9,933
Location
Narnia
Teb said:
I'm not buying Oblivion for the fancy graphics but for the lore and world. Bethesda always make an interesting world, in my opinion, but that is something that is often ignored by those who say it is all about graphics.
Of course Oblivion isn't only about fancy graphics. Why, it has... um... lots of caves with a lot of monsters to kill!

Bethesda ceased to make interesting game worlds after 1996 (I think) when Daggerfall was released. Now they run along and pay people to write detailed crap about the geography in the game, just so the fans can say "Hey, it's not just graphics. You can, like, get involved in the deep lore of the world and stuff." But guess what: it's just generic crap that doesn't mean anything, and the little stuff that actually could've been interesting is so instantly killed by the game's (and we're talking Morrowind here) poor design that really doesn't make the lore useful. Caius Cosades encouraged me only once to read up on a subject. That was all I was encouraged to research in Morrowind, and fucking hell: I could've done without it.

I remember the days where a manual filled with all kinds of texts, back story and lore, was useful when it came to beating the game. Those days are over and while the lore might be transferred into the game itself, it isn't useful when it comes to play the game.

Why?

Why has no one critiqued the fiction released during the countdown? Instead, everyone is focused on looking for flaws in the videos and the pictures.
No idea, to be honest, but the reason why I haven't raised any eyebrows is because I found the texts boring and very "generic", so to speak.

Pure coincidence, I've done a story like that as well! It was called "How I became a fan fiction writer and learned to accept my shame."

You can claim that the gameplay sucks, that the roleplaying is just dress up, that the graphics are imperfect, that many aspects are bad, but the worlds always have more depth than most RPGs.
I actually enjoyed dressing up in Morrowind. Best part of the game, if I may say so myself.

You might not like their world or their fiction but how many RPGs have such detailed lore?
I believe you're confusing "detailed" with "surface dwelling, no-good, worthless" as in "surface dwelling, no-good, worthless lore". (Rhymes with "worthless whore", by the way.) Morrowind's lore wasn't detailed. Morrowind had a lot of books you could read and a lot of wikipedia topics to chose from whenever you felt the urge to find out about the geographics, but it wasn't anything you needed to give a crap about. I'm sure Oblivion will be the same, but I'll hold my pinky finger hoping I'm wrong.

Now, for an RPG that had detailed lore you actually can give a crap about...
Off the top of my head: Arcanum.

I'm sure I can think up a few more if you give me a night's sleep.
 

Teb

Novice
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
22
Locue said:
the lore might be transferred into the game itself, it isn't useful when it comes to play the game.
True, the lore is there for those who want to investigate the history or mythology of the world. If you are more interested in leveling, fighting, or some other activity, the lore will not help you. I must roleplay bookworms since I read the books even though it is not neccessary to play the game.

Locue said:
I found the texts boring and very "generic", so to speak.
Fair enough. You might not like Michael Kirkbride's style of writing since all the samples released seem to be from him.

Locue said:
Morrowind's lore wasn't detailed. Morrowind had a lot of books you could read and a lot of wikipedia topics to chose from whenever you felt the urge to find out about the geographics, but it wasn't anything you needed to give a crap about. I'm sure Oblivion will be the same, but I'll hold my pinky finger hoping I'm wrong.

Now, for an RPG that had detailed lore you actually can give a crap about...
Off the top of my head: Arcanum.
I've played Arcanum and the lore doesn't seem as deep to me.
 

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
9,933
Location
Narnia
Teb said:
Locue said:
the lore might be transferred into the game itself, it isn't useful when it comes to play the game.
True, the lore is there for those who want to investigate the history or mythology of the world. If you are more interested in leveling, fighting, or some other activity, the lore will not help you. I must roleplay bookworms since I read the books even though it is not neccessary to play the game.
Scholars, not bookworms! Then again, scholars don't have glasses, so if you have glasses you're not permitted to join the scholar club.

One can discuss whether or not there's much to "investigate", seeing as it doesn't really lead anywhere in the long run. That's why I wouldn't consider the lore very detailed.

Locue said:
I found the texts boring and very "generic", so to speak.
Fair enough. You might not like Michael Kirkbride's style of writing since all the samples released seem to be from him.

Locue said:
Morrowind's lore wasn't detailed. Morrowind had a lot of books you could read and a lot of wikipedia topics to chose from whenever you felt the urge to find out about the geographics, but it wasn't anything you needed to give a crap about. I'm sure Oblivion will be the same, but I'll hold my pinky finger hoping I'm wrong.

Now, for an RPG that had detailed lore you actually can give a crap about...
Off the top of my head: Arcanum.
I've played Arcanum and the lore doesn't seem as deep to me.
Well, as I said it was off the top of my head so it's not the best example. Anyway, if my memory serves me right, there are plenty (or at least a lot more than one, I can't remember) of quests that would have the player search for answers in books. While these are of the "very pointed out kind", at least the lore is given some practical use.

There is also some gambling that uses answers found in the game manual, unless I'm more senile than I thought.

Edit: BBCode and grammar and clarifications.
 

Data4

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
5,529
Location
Over there.
sheek said:
Data4 said:
You've basically summed up why I still plan on getting the game. I just wish the lore and the gameplay would mesh a little better.

Sheek, just thought you'd like to know, your Chefe impression sucks.

-D4

I'm impersonating Chefe? Where the fuck do you get these ideas from?

You (and Ted) are just mad I critiqued your precious 'lore'... well sorry, but that's what Ted asked for! Pete Hines said that the TES writers consider their work a load of bullshit and I think he gets paid to know what he's talking about.

You're making an awful big assumption, there. Namely that I give more than a fart's residual about what you have to say. :D

EDIT: Doh! Tagfix.

-D4
 

Teb

Novice
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
22
Locue said:
One can discuss whether or not there's much to "investigate", seeing as it doesn't really lead anywhere in the long run. That's why I wouldn't consider the lore very detailed.
Well, as you say, the lore doesn't help you play the game. It does give people, who are interested, puzzles to try to figure out like the Hidden Words in the Sermons of Vivec or the contradictory accounts of history.
Locue said:
Well, as I said it was off the top of my head so it's not the best example. Anyway, if my memory serves me right, there are plenty (or at least a lot more than one, I can't remember) of quests that would have the player search for answers in books. While these are of the "very pointed out kind", at least the lore is given some practical use.
The book about Tsen-Ang and the book about the Gods are the two that were directly related to gameplay that I remember. Actually, the books in Arcanum are probably the reason that it is in my top three favorite RPGs. I enjoy investigating a world that actually has poetry and fiction that fit the world.
 

Twinfalls

Erudite
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
3,903
TES Lore is cool - it's interesting, quite original, and mature and believable. The problem is that, as Locue summarised above, it rarely impacts on actual gameplay. As for the books, I much prefer Ted Peterson's straightforward and entertaining but detailed and believable stuff, to Kirkbride's pretentious pap.

Oh, and I'm still curious as to whether the days of the week have been dumbed down as the strat guide suggests. If so, the Lore forums at the ESF should hopefully explode, sending Bethesda staff flying into the air (and floating gently down)
 

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated
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Messages
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Location
Narnia
Twinfalls said:
Oh, and I'm still curious as to whether the days of the week have been dumbed down as the strat guide suggests. If so, the Lore forums at the ESF should hopefully explode, sending Bethesda staff flying into the air (and floating gently down)
What? Is it even remotely possible to dumb down a calendar? The poor lads must have worked overtime to succeed with that one.
 

Teb

Novice
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
22
Twinfalls said:
TES Lore is cool - it's interesting, quite original, and mature and believable. The problem is that, as Locue summarised above, it rarely impacts on actual gameplay.
After reading the Sermons of Vivec, it would have been nice to be able to ask Vivec about some of the events but his dialogue was too narrow to include in-depth topics.

"Vivec, did you really compare 'spears' with the King of Rape?" ;)
"Vivec, can you explain the wheel?"

Twinfalls said:
As for the books, I much prefer Ted Peterson's straightforward and entertaining but detailed and believable stuff, to Kirkbride's pretentious pap.
How is Kirkbride's work hard to understand?
Vivec lay with Molag Bal for eighty days and eight, though headless. In that time, the Prince placed the warrior-poet's feet back and filled them with the blood of Daedra. In this way Vivec's giant-form remained forever harmless to good earth.
See, simple and straightforward. :)

Twinfalls said:
Oh, and I'm still curious as to whether the days of the week have been dumbed down as the strat guide suggests. If so, the Lore forums at the ESF should hopefully explode, sending Bethesda staff flying into the air (and floating gently down)
I hope the guide "dumbed" it down instead of the devs or there will be a revolt.
 

Data4

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Location
Over there.
I've seen a screenshot somewhere that showed a date. It was something like "Sunday, 3 Earthrise 3E154" or whatever. I'll see if I can find it again.

-D4
 

Relien

Scholar
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
380
Location
Tremere chantry
Twinfalls said:
Oh, and I'm still curious as to whether the days of the week have been dumbed down as the strat guide suggests. If so, the Lore forums at the ESF should hopefully explode, sending Bethesda staff flying into the air (and floating gently down)

Well, we'll se on Tirdas, 21st First Seed. And if they did, there will be no Rain's Hand for them... :evil:
 

Twinfalls

Erudite
Joined
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Messages
3,903
Teb said:
How is Kirkbride's work hard to understand?

It's not 'hard to understand' - where did I say that? I said it was pretentious. I'm a big fan of heavily wrought prose-poetry, Dunsany and Peake are two of my favourite writers.

Kirkbride does it rather poorly. It's disjointed and contrived, the pretensions being to better prose-poetry where the verbal ornamentation is cohesive.

Top marks for him in doing it though, and to Bethesda for keeping it in their games, as it does add a nice flavour. I am not saying I could do any better - but I still prefer Peterson's writing.

If anything, I am defending Bethesda on this point - the examples we have been given, which someone above suggested we should be critiquing instead of graphics, (and which was called 'dull' or 'generic' by Locue) do not in my view represent the best of TES lore or stories.
 

The Internets

Scholar
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
105
What's with the highest possible and medium comparison shots? The only difference is grass. Everything else is shit.

In any event, those are the most amateurish looking graphics I've ever seen. Someone pinch me this is too good to be true.
 

Teb

Novice
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
22
Twinfalls said:
It's not 'hard to understand' - where did I say that? I said it was pretentious. I'm a big fan of heavily wrought prose-poetry, Dunsany and Peake are two of my favourite writers.
Sorry, I took "not straightforward" (compared to Ted's style) to mean "hard to understand" since his work is filled with ambiguity. By the way, I actually agree that his work is pretentious but for the religious works that seems to fit.

You like Peake? I tried reading Gormenghast but stopped after about five pages. You can obviously handle the overly detailed setting descriptions better than I can. :)

Twinfalls said:
I still prefer Peterson's writing
Actually, I prefer his writing as well. He wrote one of my favorite ES works: The Poison Song.

Twinfalls said:
If anything, I am defending Bethesda on this point - the examples we have been given, which someone above suggested we should be critiquing instead of graphics, (and which was called 'dull' or 'generic' by Locue) do not in my view represent the best of TES lore or stories.
They're not the best but they're the most recently released. I encourage and accept criticism of the game text (dialogue and books) since that is more important than graphics to me. Of course, I may disagree with certain criticisms.

In my opinion, the Mysterium Xarxes books work well as hidden mystery scriptures and the Aldudagga texts, as a departure from Kirkbride's normal pretentious style, work well as folklore.
 

Twinfalls

Erudite
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
3,903
Yeah, look - 'pretentious pap' is probably a bit harsh and definitely too glib a dismissal of Kirkbride's body of work, so I take that back. It's probably fueled more by my dislike of the person himself, given his insane attack against TIL.

As for Peake, you did start with first book in the Gormenghast trilogy - 'Titus Groan', rather the second one - 'Gormenghast', right? For the second book is a lot slower and heavier going. (I know it's not likely that you didn't, but just in case....) Anyway, Peake is definitely a matter of taste.
 

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