KickStarter Dead State Pre-Release Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Multi-headed Cow]

Why support a project created by someone who publicly stated that the development stagnated because they lost motivation? And now getting Kickstarter money is suddenly going to rekindle their motivation? So their motivation is money?

Oh shit, really? I hadn't seen that. Welp.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Oh shit, really? I hadn't seen that. Welp.

Awful stuff, really. Go instead and fill up Gabe's pockets, because certainly his motivation isn't money and all he does is out of the goodness of his heart.

 

[Menckenstein]

Oh shit, really? I hadn't seen that. Welp.

Awful stuff, really. Go instead and fill up Gabe's pockets, because certainly his motivation isn't money and all he does is out of the goodness of his heart.

The gooey goodness that clogs his heart.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Oh shit, really? I hadn't seen that. Welp.

Awful stuff, really. Go instead and fill up Gabe's pockets, because certainly his motivation isn't money and all he does is out of the goodness of his heart.

Entirely unrelated to Dead State (And if they're motivated by money you'd think they'd finish the goddamn game so they had something to sell) but Gabe was independently wealthy before starting Valve so I'm slightly inclined to believe him when he says he does it for shits and giggles.

Oh, Gaben~~

 

[Menckenstein]

Oh shit, really? I hadn't seen that. Welp.

Awful stuff, really. Go instead and fill up Gabe's pockets, because certainly his motivation isn't money and all he does is out of the goodness of his heart.

Entirely unrelated to Dead State (And if they're motivated by money you'd think they'd finish the goddamn game so they had something to sell) but Gabe was independently wealthy before starting Valve so I'm slightly inclined to believe him when he says he does it for shits and giggles.

Oh, Gaben~~

He's still got dat Microsoft stock AFAIK.

 

[FeelTheRads]

And if they're motivated by money you'd think they'd finish the goddamn game so they had something to sell

Good point. Everyone knows that opening a business in order to make money is free, that's why everyone does it.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Then maybe they should start with less ambitious games instead of saying YOU CAN DO ANYTHING! SEE THAT ZOMBIE OVER THERE? YOU CAN CLIMB IT! then realize they don't have the money or skill to execute it and give up.
See Legend of Grimrock and Dungeons of Dredmor for less ambitious but successful indie RPGs.

 

[Menckenstein]

And if they're motivated by money you'd think they'd finish the goddamn game so they had something to sell

Good point. Everyone knows that opening a business in order to make money is free, that's why everyone does it.

I guess those elves are gonna come and create the game for them overnight so they can sell it to have money to open their business for real, instead of securing a fucking loan.

 

[Ulminati]

Ulminati is Brian Mitsoda.

No. J_C is Brian Mitsoda. I'm Matt Chatt.

 

[shihonage]

I will reveal super awesome best game ever only when it is financially beneficial for me, so far I have never posted any solid detail let alone pictures so fuck off.

That's pretty odd, though. Where's the harm in generating interest?

 

[Antagonist]

Well if you think you gonna make more money in gaming than working a straight job right from the start you can forget it.

A friend of mine got an entry level programming job in the gaming industry after finishing university and he (endlessly) complained about bad pay, long working hours (including unpaid overtime) and extremely high skill requirements. And apparently your superiors tell you straight in the face that working on games (any game) should be reward enough for all your trouble. Not sure if it gets better once you move up the career ladder of if people get stuck in their position and just burn out after a few years. At least to me my boring 9-5 job with occasional crunch time sounds far more appealing.

Regarding Dead State: I'll probably drop 15-30 Dollars. Even if Mitsoda fails to deliver the amount of money is nothing to lose sleep over. On the other hand I might help to bring this game one step closer to becoming reality. As in Doublefine's case I'm mostly curious what this seasoned designers can do if some their creative shackles are taken off.

 

[Castanova]

Oh shit, really? I hadn't seen that. Welp.

Awful stuff, really. Go instead and fill up Gabe's pockets, because certainly his motivation isn't money and all he does is out of the goodness of his heart.

Straw man. The whole point of Kickstarter is to fund people who are passionate about something and need funding to accomplish their goals. When I read an interview with Mitsoda where he says the team basically gave up on the game after, what, one year? Two years? That's not someone who is "passionate." That's someone who thinks they're passionate but are actually lazy and potentially delusional about what they are capable of accomplishing. So, again, why would I want to fund something like that?

And that's not even mentioning that giving money to "Gabe" results in you getting a game for that money. Giving money to Mitsoda results in you... well, no one knows.

 

[toro]

The fellowship of the alts ... where is the fucking ring?

 

[FeelTheRads]

Straw man. The whole point of Kickstarter is to fund people who are passionate about something and need funding to accomplish their goals. When I read an interview with Mitsoda where he says the team basically gave up on the game after, what, one year? Two years? That's not someone who is "passionate." That's someone who thinks they're passionate but are actually lazy and potentially delusional about what they are capable of accomplishing.

It doesn't matter how passionate you are if you don't have money to put it in practice.
It's only obvious that if there's a chance to get funds you get some more motivation to go on!

So, again, why would I want to fund something like that?

I really don't care. And my post was for the MHC who tries to play the righteous card while throwing money at all the Steam shovelware.

Giving money to Mitsoda results in you... well, no one knows.

Giving money to Kickstarter in general doesn't get you anything for sure. The thing is if the project convinces you or not. Comparing spending money on Kickstarter with buying an existing game is stupid.

 

[TripJack]

i'll probably go buy some beer instead

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

MHC who tries to play the righteous card

Thought it was pretty clear I was motivated by self interest by hearing they lost interest in the game, but I guess I'll clarify. I wasn't saying "Man these indies are jerks wanting money, they should work for the love of making video games!", I was saying "Well shit if they burnt out on working on Dead State I don't want to huck money at them since I'm not convinced I'll get anything for it". I could've removed the "So their motivation is money?" part of Castanova's quote and it would've been more accurate for me I guess.

I'd play the righteous card enough to say that it's BEST if people make games because they're passionate about it, and the games are more likely to be interesting/good if that's the case, but I buy and play too many money grab cash in games to say that's the ONLY way to do it. But losing interest on your project seemingly (Due to lack of screenshots, just a few mockups) early on gives me a bad vibe. Unless they suddenly show wonderful shit on the Kickstarter page of course.

 

[SerratedBiz]

It's to be expected that the way for Dead State to have a successful funding campaign is through a decent presentation of their progress so far. Concerning the interview aluded to earlier, I would think it far too easy to become disinterested (disillusioned might be more accurate, but I didn't read it) with a game that's being done via volunteering. I'd imagine it to be slower and less professional than working with people who are contractually obligated to actually work (loving making games is a plus but it's still a job).

Only a real preview of what you can expect from the game (solid gameplay, that is) can put them back to level. No more teaser videos, please.

 

[Marquess Cornwallis]

So how much are you planning to give for the development of the game?

Somewhere in the region of $50-$100, which is about the same as I did for Wasteland 2 and AoD. I'd also gladly support Shinonage's Shelter or Drog's game, or, for that matter, anything that doesn't sound (completely) delusional. I have fairly realistic expectations (in each case, I'll happily settle for a fun game rather than insist on a flawless modern classic) and even if some (most) of the 8 projects I backed so far turn out completely disappointing in the end, or don't arrive at all, I still find spending money in this manner vastly preferable to trying to extract some semblance of enjoyment from the likes of Kingdoms of Amalur, supporting Deep Silver's delicious day 1 DLCs, Blizzard's authenticators, etc., etc.

 

[Renegen]

Well if you think you gonna make more money in gaming than working a straight job right from the start you can forget it.

A friend of mine got an entry level programming job in the gaming industry after finishing university and he (endlessly) complained about bad pay, long working hours (including unpaid overtime) and extremely high skill requirements. And apparently your superiors tell you straight in the face that working on games (any game) should be reward enough for all your trouble. Not sure if it gets better once you move up the career ladder of if people get stuck in their position and just burn out after a few years. At least to me my boring 9-5 job with occasional crunch time sounds far more appealing.

Part of the reason for the sorry state today is that publishers are creating hordes of hungry video game job seekers and then exploiting them. It's sort of the model of the industry and plenty are biting. Most games are shit and completely forgettable, so I don't see why this should persist. Are people working in radio told their only reward is to be part of creating unique content?

The whole point of Kickstarter is (...)

The whole point of Kickstarter is to crowd-fund. Let's not attach mission statements to Kickstarter that are entirely of your own making.

 

[FrancoTAU]

Did they actually say they lost motivation for the game? I thought it was more of the we didn't have time for the game since we have a job and real life shit that gets in the way thing.

 

[zeitgeist]

Then maybe they should start with less ambitious games instead of saying YOU CAN DO ANYTHING! SEE THAT ZOMBIE OVER THERE? YOU CAN CLIMB IT! then realize they don't have the money or skill to execute it and give up.
See Legend of Grimrock and Dungeons of Dredmor for less ambitious but successful indie RPGs.

This concept that gets mentioned here so often of "leveling up" by making bad, easy to make, decent selling games first, and then making a good, hard to make, maybe-not-so-decent selling game at some point in the future is very silly. If your primary motivation was money, you'd just end up continuing to make bad, easy to make, decent selling games forever. And if it wasn't, you'd have made that good game in the first place. Or died trying.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

I wouldn't call Grimrock or Dredmor bad, just less ambitious and more focused in design.

Edit: Though I say this from my vague idea of what Dead State is/was going to be, which may not be what it was/is going to be. I had it in my head it was going to be a non-linear at least somewhat randomized turn based tactical zombie apocalypse RPG, with dialog and survivor management and building safehouses and so on. Which sounds are first glance to be deeper than Grimrock (Linear blob dungeon crawl) and Dredmor (Scaled back roguelike with graphics). Maybe they've always said Dead State was something else and I just didn't notice, I haven't been paying very close attention to them.

 

[Burning Bridges]

nothing
they completely blew it

 

[felipepepe]

Grimrock was the perfect first step for a indie company IMHO; a very focused and well presented experience that made a good success and profit, that will get a map editor so fans will keep it rolling while they work on a more ambicious game with their new money.

 

[felipepepe]

Ultimately I don't think you'll ever see someone make games much more complex than the first they make

What? So a indie studio should always aim for the most complex stuff possible at their first attempt, probably just to fall short due lack of money? Just look at Larian, they clearly said they are gathering money for in the next years try to make "The Biggest RPGs of All", no backyard studio can simply start with something like that....