Editorial Are RPGs too long?

[PorkaMorka]

"RPGs are too long" is another way of saying "Developers, please give us less content for our gaming dollar".

I can't understand why anyone would say "I'd rather have 30 hours of fun content, 40 hours of fun content is just too much fun for me", assuming price stayed the same.

Many RPGs are too bloated and full of worthless filler, but that is an entirely separate issue from excessive length. If someone raised the point that RPGs are often not as enjoyable as they should be, I would not disagree.

One reason that BG2 is my favorite RPG is that they gave us an incredibly high amount of (mostly) non filler content for the same price as other games that you can finish in 7 hours. The amount of value provided per dollar was really high.

 

[Ion Prothon II]

I think you guys aree4 overthinking this stuff. The article von this RampantCoyote guy, it's not like it's cheap provocation to get more views or he's a halfwit. It's an intentional apologism of devs' laziness, or whatever call it. And even this is'nt done right. Where has he seen those all fillers and banal boring shit. Any titles given? Any examples? No. Just jerking to bethesda, which isn't a titan of good game design.
I wonder if he played any emotionally engaging cRPG with extendend cut, there's so little filler, just gameplay and story.
Is this guy a gamedev? Thing he wrote is a build-up for "it's not a bug, it's feature" attitude. "Our games aren't short, they're just tight, like the virgin Mary", he'll say one day.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Yes, maybe if a giant red marquee that says QUEST FAILED scrolls across the screen. If the game doesn't say anything and makes no indication of what 'time' it is, or even that this time system exists then maybe not.

Then it'll become "that game that needs a walkthrough".

 

[Luzur]

i wouldnt mind playing a RPG that would take me a year to finish, if it had well written plot, good combat and stuff.

 

[meh]

i wouldnt mind playing a RPG that would take me a year to finish, if it had well written plot, good combat and stuff.

Play skyrim, there's plenty of quests to do :baby:

 

[GreyViper]

No just no, the hell is this world coming to if RPG games become to complex for average Joe to follow. I mean some people look at me like I was mad when they see me reading books on PC. Is this the start of decline?

 

[Brayko]

Yeah I mean the average Joe gamer used to have a 100 + IQ nowadays it's your average redneck Joe shithead psuedo commando that publishers have in mind when they decide to green-light something. I like when I was able to study for exams yet play a game that was intellectually on a similar wavelength.

 

[Rivmusique]

#4 – Do what Bethesda does and allow the player to go for the end-game at the time of his choosing.

Ah yes, a classic Bethesda gaming innovation along with day-night cycles, open world exploration and First Person Perspective. Thank god for Beth

 

[DragoFireheart]

I've given out so many brofists in this topic.

Anyways, I've never disappointed when a good game is longer than I thought. I was sad when Dark Souls "ended" for me. Then there are some games so bad I wish I never wasted any time on them.

The length of time a player can expect to spend on an RPG is another game mechanic and a tool for the developer to use: it being too long or too short has no impact on it's quality. If a game is designed well, it being longer will be fine. If the game is shit, it being longer will only amplify its shitness.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Too many notes.

well, there it is

 

[commie]

Arcania had too many lines of code. Should have stopped at 0.

 

[Dantus12]

Life got faster I think. The mostly targeted marked is the US. And they live faster and have different values , than the older generations, The captain of the football team or the cheerleader that is playing games to demonstrate the following to others:

I'm sporty, I can be whatever I want mummy told me, but behind my body on gear since I'm 16 is a brain coz I play games and gaming is a thing for nerds.
It became a way of demonstrating intelligence when there is none. It isn't specifically the US market , but the majority of consoles are sold there an in Japan so it became nearly a marketing strategy.
"You will find time for everything: School l/work, sports , social and charity even , GF, Spring break and binge drinking if you manage to stick to our entertainment system because our entertainment system is easy to use a and the games on it are easier."
So the modern gamer is being abused more than She or He is aware off.

The causal aspects became the most important part of games, hidden behind "user friendly," and "accessible " everything else became irrelevant .Adding to this Microsoft's constant effort to kill off every required standard that made making good games once possible by simply removing things from Windows that are needed for anything complex . When I see the depths of Win 7 or Win 8 I see that I'm running a console on high end hardware nothing more.
And the visual fidelity and technical superior graphics on Pc aren't doing anything when creating a complex mechanic is not possible , because everything is identical and uniform , in the OS and in the tools used in development. So OT RPG's are too long , complex mechanics a waste of time and games like ME3 are a perfect idea of a accessible role-playing game-not srs. I simply cant see a good RPG as to long. A bad one-yes .Risen 2 was too long for me.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Some of them are too long. If you're just throwing the same thing at the player, over and over again, because you ran out of ideas - it's gotten too long. Also, if you're rushed in development so you're just doing the same thing over and over again just to add time to the game, it's too long because the player's going to get bored anyway.

I enjoyed Dragon Age: Origins for about two thirds of the game, then got bored with it. It was just a bit too much of the same over and over again for me. It was good at first, though I didn't like the combat too much. The story stuff kept me going. Some of the choices and character plots were neat but it just got stale around the two thirds mark.

Arcanum was too long. If you did all the sidequests and stuff, you hit the level cap. Whoops.

I guess if the RPG can keep you entertained up to the end, then it's not too long. If the mechanics are there to keep you flipping skills and such, then it's not too long.

 

[Ion Prothon II]

I enjoyed Dragon Age: Origins for about two thirds of the game, then got bored with it. It was just a bit too much of the same over and over again for me. It was good at first, though I didn't like the combat too much. The story stuff kept me going. Some of the choices and character plots were neat but it just got stale around the two thirds mark.

You gave a bad example. What you say is basically that you eventually got tired of bad gameplay, not the length. Combat in DAO, despite being core element of gameplay, was badly done. Even if the game was short and done using AoD teleports, it wouldn't make it good.

Fallout 2 could be a better one, but I'm not sure if the length was a downside there. Something like half of the game was about killing things with bullet rain from bozar. If you cut it out for idea, the entire 'filler' stuff, you'd just end up with a game lacking half of content and maybe even worse than before.
(Inb4 F2 having a nightmarish combat)

 

[Johannes]

Fallout 2 combat wasn't that good to start with, same problem as with DA. Oh wait, you already covered that. But anyway I played the game once, but didn't do that much combat in the end since thankfully there were other options, or I could just simply skip uninteresting sidequests.

Better example would be, let's see, JA2 for one. The combat is good and interesting, decently varied on map and circumstance too. But if you play on a tough enough difficulty, and conquer all towns etc., it just kinda starts to wear at least me down somewhere along the line... The battles are long and they keep coming (coupled with managing your assets, militias etc.), eventually you might decide you've had enough of the candy even if there's still a good amount of it left. And that's fine since the gameplay was fun in itself and not just a means to make reaching the story parts more rewarding.

 

[Sceptic]

I guess if the RPG can keep you entertained up to the end, then it's not too long. If the mechanics are there to keep you flipping skills and such, then it's not too long.

In other words, length has nothing to do with it and the entire article is built on a simple fallacy. I was bored with DAO about 10h in, yet I played WOX for maybe 50h each playthrough, and I've had 3 or 4. There is no such thing as a game that's too long, only games that are too boring to keep playing no matter the length, and games that are so good that you never want them to end (and when they do you take a break then go back and replay them). Well, and everything in-between, depending on how good or bad the games are.

Completely agree with what Ion Prothon said.

I also don't buy the "we have less time" argument. You don't. You're just less tolerant of how you spend our time, with this obsession that every minute of your precious time MUST be spent on something you consider worthwhile (someone earlier mentioned "the 9-5 treadmill"). Best example was CRPG Addict when he came back from his break a few months ago complaining how he wished he were addicted to anything but gaming - it's a very prevalent attitude, that any play time (not just video games) is a "waste of time" and time better spent on something more "worthwhile" and whatnot. And so you're less willing to actually find the time to game and would rather go get drunk, or watch TV, or sleep in late, or whatever. And because part of you still really likes gaming, you have to come up with an excuse for not doing it (as opposed to simply getting over it and moving on to other hobbies - because it's not exclusively a children's hobby, and you don't really "grow out of it"). And what better excuse than "I don't have time?"

I mean, I'm working crazy hours, usually on weekends too, I have a pretty busy social life, LOTS of hobbies besides gaming, I need so much sleep to function properly, I live by myself so I have to do EVERYTHING around the house on my own... and I find the time to take a break from my gaming to make inane posts on RPG Codex.

There's always time when you want it.

 

[Shadenuat]

I want RPG's on 5 CD's, which, when you finish one and take another, you think : "Damn, it's still 4-3-.. CD's to finish, even more fun, adventure, setting and character's I've grown to love so much" / "Only one CD left.. so sad, but what a great adventure it was".
There were games I tend to think about in a way like that. Now it's "more than TWENTY HOURS!" horseshit. And I agree that "gaming is not a worthlike activity to spend time on" could be a problem. But JC allmighty, it's a hobby. If I spent 2 years to paint a Warhammer army, is it too long? Maybe miniatures should be smaller, because I (GASP!) have a job and need to make money for a living? Maybe long and tiresome painting techniques should be prohibited?
When I was just a boy, I fell in love with CRPGs. Now I am a grown up man, and still love CRPGs. So give me my hobby, give me my long and complex CRPGs, please, I have money.

 

[Sceptic]

Maybe long and tiresome painting techniques should be prohibited?

Painting is an art form, so time spent on it is not wasted. Unless you mean figurines, at which point it falls under gaming and you should have grown out of it by now.

Social pressure when it comes to these things is a pretty big deal, even moreso when you have a family. Trying to explain to your partner that your gaming is no less significant than their watching every single TV series that comes out is not as straightforward as it should be. Though I tend to be of the mind that, if your partner of all people can't fathom that you have a hobby he or she doesn't, then it's time to find another one.

I did want to mention something else in my previous post but then forgot. I think there's one single case in which "I don't have time" can be a valid excuse - if you have pre-school children. I don't have one, but due to some very close friends I've seen what it's like, and it's 5 full-time jobs rolled into one. Even then though you STILL manage to find time if you really want to.

 

[mondblut]

I think there's one single case in which "I don't have time" can be a valid excuse - if you have pre-school children.

Beats me why the little fucking pests of certain people must destroy this hobby for everyone else.

Fucking fuck, EVERY single evil in the world is ultimately traced down to "but what of teh cheeldrun". This world needs mandatory sterilization for everyone.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

It's kinda unfair to blame the kids for having parents who are too limpwristed to reserve an hour for themselves once in a while.

As for you Septic, stop farming brofists.

 

[laclongquan]

They are demons and they will suck energy out of you faster than you can believe.

Unless you have helpers in the form of live-in nanny or live-in grandparents, it's not a matter of limpwrist or not.

I mean, having an energetic 24-month running all over the house screaming happily at the top of his lung is not a restful period to play game. Or if he climb all over your back and try to wrestle your pad away, or the keyboard away from your hand.

 

[Sceptic]

Beats me why the little fucking pests of certain people must destroy this hobby for everyone else.

Oh I meant it's a good excuse for why you don't have time - not for ruining everyone else's. As in, I understand not gaming as much because you have a little devil sucking all your energy. But trying to change the industry to accomodate that? fuck off, you brought it on yourself. Use contraception next time.

Or enroll in one of those abstinence courses

 

[Shadenuat]

My dad played every game he could get his hands on and did't care about me running around and singing songs from these games

 

[sgc_meltdown]

this epic multi volume work of literature doesn't cater to my scheduling needs

the author should have considered the busy working adult market more carefully