Game News First work in progress screenshot of Wasteland 2 revealed

[circ]

For god's sake, this is not "alpha". This is pre-pre-alpha. Maybe add a few more pres.

The Ultima Forever game I had access to was an alpha. It was a playable game.

Ok so it's alpha, pre-pre-pre-alpha. People are just voicing their opinions about how it looks, that's fine isn't it? It's not like people are baselessly saying it looks like shit compared to Skyrim. Also surprised at how CK and some others suddenly have had enough of negativity. I see plenty of positive feedback from the negative crowd. Maybe there's nothing to be positive about in some cases because there's alot of crappy stuff out there.

 

[Infinitron]

For god's sake, this is not "alpha". This is pre-pre-alpha. Maybe add a few more pres.

The Ultima Forever game I had access to was an alpha. It was a playable game.

Ok so it's alpha, pre-pre-pre-alpha. People are just voicing their opinions about how it looks, that's fine isn't it? It's not like people are baselessly saying it looks like shit compared to Skyrim. Also surprised at how CK and some others suddenly have had enough of negativity. I see plenty of positive feedback from the negative crowd. Maybe there's nothing to be positive about in some cases because there's alot of crappy stuff out there.

Hey, I agree the screenshot looks cheesy. I just don't think it's worth making a fuss over, because it's not supposed to look very good. It's just supposed to reassure us that, yes, inXile are using our money to make a top down party-based game with scorpitrons and deserts and shit. Which is good.

 

[Ion Prothon II]

Please keep in mind that we have not put in the particle effects and post-processing which will have a dramatic effect on the scene, and this represents just one of the various environments for Wasteland 2 so expect to see other quite different locales. Also, this particular camera angle is on the low end of a range that the player can adjust upwards to a much more top-down view, for those who prefer that style during game play.

I don't see how particle effects and post- processing alone can make it looking better.
I see a possibility it's just a screenshot they got by placing random things on a random location in level editor, and there are few placeholders / semi-ready models. Then, Fargo made a really unfortunate selection of words in his statement.

 

[mindx2]

Remember, because this is a Kickstarter game we are getting access to the ongoing creation process that we normally don't get to see. Regular Big Boy publishers don't let anything be seen until at least a year or more of development time. They "pretty up" their screenshots to make all the graphics-whores go gaga. Fargo releases his shots as they're made regardless to how "prettied up" they are so we can see what's being done and how it's being done. I think some are too used to how modern games are shown to the public that they are reacting as if this was a AAA, E3, big budget, girls showing off the game in bikinis type game production. It's not.

Again, I say let's keep the criticisms going. We WANT to keep the fire to Fargo's feet regardless as to all his promises of Old-school goodness. Just keep that criticism in perspective.

 

[Captain Shrek]

For god's sake, this is not "alpha". This is pre-pre-alpha. Maybe add a few more pres.

The Ultima Forever build I had access to was an alpha. It was a playable game. This screenshot is one level above a simple mockup, there is nothing playable here.

First stop treating this entire debate as your personal issue. W2 owes you performance for your money. It is your privilege to ask them for that. Second, have you seen LoE? Its also in pre-alpha. It already looks better there. With these kind of assets that W2 is showing, its NOT possibly going to bypass LoE unless something really unfathomable happens from within. If they are going to stick with these kinds of graphics, then I believe that they should be challenged before its too late to change them.

 

[General Maxson]

For god's sake, this is not "alpha". This is pre-pre-alpha. Maybe add a few more pres.

The Ultima Forever game I had access to was an alpha. It was a playable game.

Ok so it's alpha, pre-pre-pre-alpha. People are just voicing their opinions about how it looks, that's fine isn't it? It's not like people are baselessly saying it looks like shit compared to Skyrim. Also surprised at how CK and some others suddenly have had enough of negativity. I see plenty of positive feedback from the negative crowd. Maybe there's nothing to be positive about in some cases because there's alot of crappy stuff out there.

Hey, I agree the screenshot looks cheesy. I just don't think it's worth making a fuss over, because it's not supposed to look very good. It's just supposed to reassure us that, yes, inXile are using our money to make a top down party-based game with scorpitrons and deserts and shit. Which is good.

Yeah, well that's what I'm hoping too. I just hope it's true, cause nobody can reassure us it the truth of your words. But it's better to voice some opinion before it's too late. They need to add a lot of uniqueness to Unity if they intend to use pre made assets, as this looks like isometric Team Fortress or smtg like that.

 

[Ion Prothon II]

Remember, because this is a Kickstarter game. We are getting access to the ongoing creation process that we normally don't get to see. Regular Big Boy publishers don't let anything be seen until at least a year or more of development time. They "pretty up" their screenshots to make all the graphics-whores go gaga. Fargo releases his shots as they're made regardless to how "prettied up" they are so we can see what's being done and how it's being done. I think some are too used to how modern games are shown to the public that they are reacting as if this was a AAA, E3, big budget, girls showing off the game in bikinis type game production. It's not.

Again, I say let's keep the critisisms going. We WANT to keep the fire to Fargo's feet regardless as to all his promises of Old-school goodness. .

Right, we should rather save our anger for the next screenshots from late- alpha.

 

[Ethan Duvall]

Check out this 2d isometric rpg engine. Looks so much better than Unity.

 

[Infinitron]

I see a possibility it's just a screenshot they got by placing random things on a random location in level editor, and there are few placeholders / semi-ready models.

Yep, this is most likely precisely what they did.

 

[mindx2]

Right, we should rather save our anger for the next screenshots from late- alpha.

That's the spirit!

 

[G.O.D]

It's just supposed to reassure us that, yes, inXile are exploiting our money to make a top down, ESBR-13, party-based facebook game with scorpitrons and deserts made of Cheddar Cheese and snot-coloured, fuming, ponds of lemonade and shit. Which is hilarious.

Fixed.

---><---

 

[Outlander]

I still would like to know if that ladder is usable, if it is, it will be a huge incline. Although its size seems a little bit out of proportion.

And about the graphics... It's irrelevant that this is a pre pre pre pre alpha, prototype theta or whatever. They chose a style composed of Unity assets and went with it and it doesn't look very good in my opinion.

Also, fuck the apologists.

 

[aris]

Looks alright, character models looks like shit.

 

[bonescraper]

If you cant tell anything about game's art style from "Progress Screenshot - Environment and Character Style Development" than what's the point of releasing it? Dat.

Um, i didn't say you can't tell anything about the game's art style from that screenshot?

But i take it you just don't like the art style. Well, tough luck, bro :shrug:

There is a difference, indeed. Wasteland 2 has a budget of 3M$, therefore it shouldn't be limited to cartoonish graphics, if a no budget game isn't.

Wat? The most expensive game in history - SW:TOR is "limited to cartoonish graphics". Where is your gawd now? What does budget have to do with art style for fuck's sake?

As far as I'm concerned, this time constraint of Oct 2013 is shit. It's what forced them to use Unity, and its assets and force everything to be completed as quickly as possible. I would be happier if I had to wait to 2015 if it would improve the game, and make them use their own creative freedom in choosing engine, not because Unity engine is good to create something quickly.

If you're willing to pay their salaries. Sure, i agree with you bro! Totally.

And I can't imagine professional team with 3x the money they asked for can't make something better, when we have Stasis guy, and even Styg (alone guys with no money). And W2 isn't a publisher game, or just a "game", it's a game Fargo always wanted to make etc. So they should be at least passionate as Styg and Stasis guys... And I ask you what would W2 look like if it got 1 mil $ as they first asked?

And I don't get that 3 mil $ is shit money, and if they make graphics better Fallout Tactics for example, the game will be much more limited in scope... I don't see Styg limiting his game with nice graphics (for a literally no budget game), or Stasis guy limiting his, although it IS an adventure. But wtf do I know?

Yup, wtf do you know?

Styg's game is nowhere near W2's league. And Stasis is in development since at least 2009. Since it's a point and click adventure game, the game mechanics are way less complex and the engine, while pretty, isn't sophisticated enough for a tactial RPG. By the way, both Styg and Stasis guy don't have any deadlines, they have no responsibilities and both games still may end up as vaporware.

Check out this 2d isometric rpg engine. Looks so much better than Unity.

Pretty. So what?

Can you rotate the camera? Can you turn off those obtrusive trees? How the fuck am i supposed to see my character when i go behind that building?

There's a reason why JA2 looked so minimalistic. While the game insn't the prettiest, its engine is very functional and was specifically crafted for a turn-based, tactical RPG.

 

[Stelcio]

Um, i didn't say you can't tell anything about the game's art style from that screenshot?

You implied it pretty clearly:

Anyway, what can you tell about the game's art style from that one early screenshot anyway? You haven't seen a ruined city environment yet.

Let's continue...

There is a difference, indeed. Wasteland 2 has a budget of 3M$, therefore it shouldn't be limited to cartoonish graphics, if a no budget game isn't.

Wat? The most expensive game in history - SW:TOR is "limited to cartoonish graphics". Where is your gawd now? What does budget have to do with art style for fuck's sake?

Let's go 2 pages back...

And they had technical limitations back then, when making W1. They were limited to 16 colours and analog->digital conversion was very difficult, so cartoonish was the only valid choice. Now it isn't, even in such a low budget game. Proof:

It is, by all means, a low budget game. And Underrail is a no budget game. It's just a one man project, done in free time. Don't fucking tell me there is no difference...

If you dismiss any connection between budget and art, you should have stated it back then. Now you just seem to look for any argument to counter with, as your position isn't consistent. First you say the art direction is different in Underrail and in W2 BECAUSE of budget difference, then you tell me budget has nothing to do with art direction.

 

[Ion Prothon II]

Pretty. So what?

Can you rotate the camera? Can you turn off those obtrusive trees? How the fuck am i supposed to see my character when i go behind that building?

There's a reason why JA2 looked so minimalistic. While the game insn't the prettiest, its engine is very functional and was specifically crafted for a turn-based, tactical RPG.

Trololo.

It's the nth time I've read about JA2 and minimalism. What the fuck. Where's any minimalism there. Find better words.

Also:

Can you rotate the camera?

Why do you ask for the most cancerous thing in modern isometric games.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

I think it's a bit early for serious raging. This is literally the first shot they've shown with probably no gameplay in place yet.

As for criticism, consider this: Let's say this was an preliminary character skill and stats list with formulae and perks laid out instead. If a significant amount of the pledgers have an issue with the mechanics it is the point of this kickstarter that this would be an intimate community-developer relationship and they would therefore then actually listen to feedback, because this is a niche that we have outright paid for to be filled in the form of one product. Our product.

I don't think it was released just for hype alone, as they have our money, and if this was normal industry operations they would release the best looking mockups possible and not a taster. Like the concept art they showed before the funding was completed. This is more like the social feature announcement. They got an outcry and so that was phased out. No harm done to the developmental cycle.

So it follows that this shot was meant for garnering feedback, as the first of a hopefully long series of status reports. It is now their turn to absorb the vitally useful information (much like the forum threads they've had on game design) and come up with a second iteration of their presentation style, or variant if you prefer.

Just because the style is bright and vibrant doesn't make it bad in the least, but bright and vibrant done without meeting its full potential is something that can still be improved at this stage, and I see no reason to be angry about this approach.

General talk about the saturation or texture details is a very strong indicator of broad issues and a far cry from being specifically concerned about the characters' underwear style or the design of a particular monster or the UI placement of the text log and getting worked up over those.

 

[General Maxson]

If you're willing to pay their salaries. Sure, i agree with you bro! Totally.

I would if I could. Anyway I thought they make this game, not just for money, as it was implied in the kickstarter vids.

Yup, wtf do you know?

Styg's game is nowhere near W2's league. And Stasis is in development since at least 2009. Since it's a point and click adventure game, the game mechanics are way less complex and the engine, while pretty, isn't sophisticated enough for a tactial RPG. By the way, both Styg and Stasis guy don't have any deadlines, they have no responsibilities and both games still may end up as vaporware.

There are other examples as I said. Eisenwald, Fallout Tactics, Grim Dawn etc. that look much better to me, if this screenshot is an indication of art style they are going to use. And I also cannot fathom why would ugly graphics be a prerequisite for a sophisticated mechanics in game, and why pretty looking games must have sucky mechanics. I don't expect Stasis level beautiful graphics, but I dislike what I see here, and think they could do much better, when all these games I named don't have as many people working on it and especially they have less money. That's all I'm saying, they can, and should do better than this. Ok, people say it will look much differently, because this is pre-alpha, but that's why they put the screenshot up, for fans, to give input?

Sure, do not improve graphics, if it will take from gameplay, but I just don't think that's true, as I mentioned other more beautiful examples. Anyway, what should then we have expected for 1 million $ and he promised all those features and oldschool style depth and sophistication, an ASCII game? Because budget wouldn't be enough to make prettier graphics?

 

[Metro]

Old school developer revives a classic turn based RPG and Codex proceeds to bitch about graphics (in a pre-alpha build). Carry on.

 

[bonescraper]

Um, i didn't say you can't tell anything about the game's art style from that screenshot?

You implied it pretty clearly

Nope. You took that out of context. I was talking about the cover art. And since you haven't seen a scene similar to that particular piece of art yet (set in a ruined city), you can't say how it's different from the actual game.

If you dismiss any connection between budget and art, you should have stated it back then. Now you just seem to look for any argument to counter with, as your position isn't consistent.

No, i shouldn't, since i think it's fucking obvious. Lower budget = less polys per model, less detail, crappy textures, less animations, no fancy-shmancy effects etc. Art style has nothing to do with money.

First you say the art direction is different in Underrail and in W2 BECAUSE of budget difference, then you tell me budget has nothing to do with art direction.

Lol. No, i didn't say that. Anyway, you can't honestly talk about any art direction in Underrail, as all you can see is just some generic looking walls and corridors with some computer screens and furniture scattered here and there. It's not like he even bothered with concept art and stuff

Trololo.

It's the nth time I've read about JA2 and minimalism. What the fuck. Where's any minimalism there. Find better words.

No, i won't.

Compare JA2 or Fallout to 1998's Commandos or 2000's IWD.

Can you rotate the camera?

Why do you ask for the most cancerous thing in modern isometric games.

I would if I could. Anyway I thought they make this game, not just for money, as it was implied in the kickstarter vids.

Well, Fargo always wanted to make W2. He made it pretty clear, he also said he won't take any money during its development. And i bet he can afford it, since he offered to pour 100.000$ into this project from his own pocket.

But i bet the rest of the team has families, bills to pay and kids to feed. A job's a job. Get real.

There are other examples as I said. Eisenwald, Fallout Tactics, Grim Dawn etc. that look much better to me, if this screenshot is an indication of art style they are going to use. And I also cannot fathom why would ugly graphics be a prerequisite for a sophisticated mechanics in game, and why pretty looking games must have sucky mechanics.

Eisenwald i'm not familiar with. Fallout Tactics' devs had a bigger budget, publisher support, more time and an existing set of mechanics to base their game on. They most likely also had a bigger team.

Grim Dawn is in development since 2008. You could pre-order the game though their website since 2009. They got some initial funds this way. They are using their own engine and already existing mechanics.

So why Fargo may need to cut corners here and there? Because he has an actual deadline, a tight budget and a team of employees who might refuse to work for food. Games made in spare time don't require big budgets. Like i said, get real.

 

[Excidium]

Old school developer revives a classic turn based RPG and Codex proceeds to bitch about graphics (in a pre-alpha build). Carry on.

Just what do you expect people to comment and argue about in a newspost about the reveal of the first screenshot?

Are we supposed to like and upvote everything like a reddit piece of shit?

 

[Necroscope]

There's this moment in "The Shawshank Redemption" when Red says: I wish I could tell you that Andy fought the good fight, and the Sisters let him be. (...); so I wish I could tell that the screenshot looks promising, interesting, etc., but the fact is that it looks quite shitty in terms of both quality and style. I really hope they gonna rethink this concpet, since aesthetic factor is IMO important in post-apo game.

//
Hi BTW, looks like after all these years of stalking I'm finally acrimonious and frustrated person enough to have an account on Codex.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Looks more like Fallout Tactics than Wasteland.

 

[Stelcio]

Um, i didn't say you can't tell anything about the game's art style from that screenshot?

You implied it pretty clearly

Nope. You took that out of context. I was talking about the cover art. And since you haven't seen a scene similar to that particular piece of art yet (set in a ruined city), you can't say how it's different from the actual game.

First, style isn't about content, therefore lack of certain content does not prevent stylistic comparision. Second, your question was clearly more general. You used phrase "anyway" twice there, taking it out of context yourself and then not putting it back by mentioning cover art. Now I know what you meant, but still - learn English, dude.

If you dismiss any connection between budget and art, you should have stated it back then. Now you just seem to look for any argument to counter with, as your position isn't consistent.

No, i shouldn't, since i think it's fucking obvious. Lower budget = less polys per model, less detail, crappy textures, less animations, no fancy-shmancy effects etc. Art style has nothing to do with money.

Tell me then - why so many indie games are pixel-art? Because it can look good while being cheap. Same with cartoonish 3D - less detailed environment, less detailed textures, wacky animation doesn't need motion capture, etc. and it still looks like a coherent art style.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

For god's sake, this is not "alpha". This is pre-pre-alpha. Maybe add a few more pres.

The Ultima Forever game I had access to was an alpha. It was a playable game.

Ok so it's alpha, pre-pre-pre-alpha. People are just voicing their opinions about how it looks, that's fine isn't it? It's not like people are baselessly saying it looks like shit compared to Skyrim. Also surprised at how CK and some others suddenly have had enough of negativity. I see plenty of positive feedback from the negative crowd. Maybe there's nothing to be positive about in some cases because there's alot of crappy stuff out there.

Negativety is fine (even if I think that being this negative about a screen that is little more than a mock up is trying a little too hard). Negativety based on made up facts and assumptions is just silly ("this alpha build indicates they want to make Team fortress 3; needs more brown or else it will look kiddy; where's my tiles, I don't wanna no action rpg"), and saying "it's just my opinion bro" doesn't mean I have to accept bs observations as valid.

The LOLOL I DUNNO BUT IT'S ABSOLUTE SHIT attitude annoys me just as much as LOLOL I DUNNO BUT IT'S PURE AWESOME from gamespot et al, so this isn't a "why are you guys so meeeean ?" thing.