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In which game did you have the most fun just thinking about character builds

Melcar

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BG2, IWD2 (in fact, this was the only thing I did in that game), ToEE, Final Fantasy Tactics, and FO 1&2.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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Final Fantasy Tactics there wasn't nearly so much with character creation I think.
Good, but fuck it didn't beat wizardry 8.
That game was the ultimate party creation fucking madness.
Stop a game midway thru, start a new party, repeat.
 

octavius

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Good, but fuck it didn't beat wizardry 8.
That game was the ultimate party creation fucking madness.
Stop a game midway thru, start a new party, repeat.
Heh, I stopped Wiz 7 midway thru, and restarted from Wiz 6 with a new party.
I'm not sure wether I love or hate the character building in Wiz 6-8. One the one hand it is rather fun to plan the characters' careers, but OTOH it can be frustrating when you need just one more SPD to switch class and the character increases in everything but SPD. Especially since Wiz 7 virtually forces you to play the switch classes game if you want high enough magic skille to be able to cast even mid level spells in the first half of the game. Not being able to cast Cure Disease is extremely tedious when exploring the Lost Temple, for example.
And now you're saying Wiz 8 is even worse?
 

Major_Blackhart

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It's fun, can't help it.
It's more along the lines of trying to create the best combination and then thinking something up later saying 'Hey, I could use a character with a spell like that!"
 

King Crispy

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In Mysteries of Westgate for NWN2, definitely.

Spent weeks while waiting for the game to be released thinking of the most optimum build I could for an Arcane Trickster who specialized in using Feint/Bluff for Impromptu Sneak Attacks, using a kukri! He was even theme-based; he specialized in spider- and arachnid-based magic and skills (some LARPing here, I will admit), although he was not a worshipper of Lolth at all.

It was very, very fun playing through MoW with him because, although he was optimized for my vision of him, he was by no means a powerful character. Merely fun to play and see flourish, especially in the arena fights in that expansion.
 

Krivol

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All DnD 3.0 and DnD 3.5 games IMO are designed to be kind of character building games. I love thinking about character generation in Fallout 2, but I (almost) allways make the same character :P .
 

Shiki

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Arcanum. The first time you play that game, if you don't spoil anything by reading FAQ and guides on the tubes it takes a bit of time before you can make an optimal build. One thing that isn't very obvious in the beginning is that making a diplomatic character will fuck your combat abilities, unlike Fallout or d&d based games. A fully optimized diplo character won't know a lot of spells and shit until much later in the game. The requirements for the most powerful diplomatic skill are insane in the number of points you have to spend heh.
In comparison, in Fallout with high perception and small arms leveled up you can rock half of the game, and rock half of the rest by leveling up energy weapons and still keep your build diplomacy-focused. Fallout allows god-like characters.

D&D based cRPG are kind of a fail in that. There's a lot of feat and shit but unless you're playing multiplayer just make a wizard and you'll breeze through the games with nukes no matter what. Mainly because they allow retarded shit like resting anywhere and getting your spells back. Character building ? why should you care. Wizard all the way. If resting and the risk of random battles annoy you, just make a priest or a druid. Baldur's Gate 2 was the worst offender because of spells like Time Stop. Making anything other than a Wizard was plainly retarded.

Character building is great in the p&p d&d, and gives more stuff to non-spell casting classes with the "addons" books. But the cRPG implementations are fail. Nothing beats making a wizard, and for the lazy, a priest/druid which have both spell and decent fighting abilities. In cRPG you don't spend a lot of time on lower levels too, which makes the main drawback of magic moot.
 

Shiki

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Then again, playing any D&D-based CRPG just to "beat" it is, well, "beating it". aka masturbation.

True. But the thread itself is all about cbuild rather than storyfaggotry. I like the story in PST but mechanics wise it's a shit game. Make a fucking mage. In the case of PST it's worse than the others, it's the only playable class since most of the good stuff depends on intelligence and wisdom, whcih aren't characteristics you'd level up if you were making a warrior or a thief. Playing a warrior in PST could only lead to a very boring game compared to one played with a mage.
 
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Final Fantasy Tactics there wasn't nearly so much with character creation I think.
Good, but fuck it didn't beat wizardry 8.
That game was the ultimate party creation fucking madness.
Stop a game midway thru, start a new party, repeat.

You don't really take much time creating characters in FFT, mainly because classes are unlockable and depend on stats / previous unlocks. It's later on that you start to sperg about which job and abilities to keep on your pimped-out bro.
 

King Crispy

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Shiki, I see your point and acknowledge it, but I don't personally consider Torment to be a D&D-based CRPG. Although technically it is, it's certainly not a good example of one. It's a great game loosely based on D&D rules that bends them to the point of breaking for the sake of its amazing story.

I was more referring to the NWN2's and ToEE's, etc., to which your point is more applicable from the standpoint of powergaming vs. not powergaming (attempting to do so in PS:T is the height of retardation), which is really what we're talking about here.

Using my example above, I created that character with the express purpose of enjoying the challenge of painting myself into a certain box, the Arcane Trickster class being one that intrigued me but held no hope of gallantly waltzing through the content like other class choices would have an easier time doing.

You may consider any conversation regarding character builds as essentially an argument of "which build accels the most at dominating the content", but I consider any conversation about character builds as being either that or more along my tastes (interesting builds, not necessarily optimal ones), or somewhere in-between.

So going back to your point about D&D-based CRPGs failing in this whole department, I disagree. It all depends on your point of view.
 

oscar

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Arcanum. A damn shame that they decided to do real-time as well as turn-based and ended up doing neither well. Still there were tons of viable builds that the game responded (low intelligence in particular was brilliant) to and levelling up always felt great with so many interesting skills, magic and disciplines to put points into. Backgrounds were another great idea that added to the joy of character creation and gave you some direction for your character's style and personality.

Darklands was also pretty cool.
 
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Oct 19, 2010
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Icewind Dale 2 first, Neverwinter Nights 1 second. There are many others that follow though

The creation sequence is absolutely essential for a good RPG and it's easily one of the most enjoyable parts of an RPG when you have a good, robust system.
 

Daemongar

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VtMB just because character creation is not the standard D&D. A lot of different approaches.
Arcanum for the first play-through where I tried to make a character that could do everything. Then played up to level 10 with about 20 other builds, just messing around. Female who starts with that Barbarian armor (dreadnaught?) was an interesting surprise.
Fallout builds were great, but in both FO1 and 2, I feel forced to crank the INT for every build. Its not as much fun creating alternate builds when you get fewer skill points per level.

NWN2: MotB is my favorite, though. I could just sit around and create custom builds all day. Not just a Dragon Disciple, but the *optimal* dragon disciple: how many levels of sorcerer, bard, and maybe a level of barbarian, then switch over to DD for 10 levels, and then?
 

Linden

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Icewind Dale 2. Building a six man party from the ground up is awesome. There are just so many possible combinations.
 

Thrasher

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Neverwinter Nights by a longshot. Wizardy 8 and Arcanum come in a close second.
 

SCO

Arcane
In My Safe Space
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Tome4. Slightly frustrating because the class/talent points points are hideously limited (so i naturally cheated a new race in with lots of passives and major talent bonus).

You haven't lived until you get a cursed psionicist with 3 alchemist enhanced weapons attacking the death room.
 

okashii

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Dec 11, 2008
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Most fun thinking about a build for me would probably be Arcanum played as a solo pacifist. (No kills in log allowed, dynamite used only once) with the unofficial patch.
 

Castanova

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Probably BG2. Not so much time spent building my individual character but I spent a ton of time researching all the possible party members (as well as the potential high level items I could get for each of them) and developing the perfect party around them. Then, spending Act 2 rounding up that perfect party. Great fun.

Diablo 2 although each individual build is not particularly complicated. It's just that I spent a lot of time playing the game.
 

spectre

Arcane
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Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,382
For me it was Arcanum and Darklands. As far as the newer games are concerned, I managed to get my fix from path of exile, although it requires a significant time investment to get a good pool of skill and support gems.

Lots of people tend to like D&D systems, personally, I don't think there was much to it in 2eD-based games, apart from the cheesy spell combinations. I liked the implementation of 3E in Icewind Dale 2, but I always thought the prestige class system to be really tiresome.
 

Machine

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Apr 13, 2012
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cout<<
Wizardries and Anarchy Online :oops:
 

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