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NBA 2k becomes even more RPGish

tuluse

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
The elevating of stats in games like NBA 2k series is funny because player skill is the dominant aspect of these games. I can't comment on other sports games, but knowing something about basketball doesn't actually help me much on these. It takes 5 seconds to look at the the ratings the players have and pick someone with high numbers. Then it's just manipulating the controller.

I have an understanding of the game of basketball and of the teams and players in the NBA over the past 25 years, but never does my knowledge of, say, how to challenge the Miami Heat come into play in the actual game. My opponent just learns button combinations better than I do, and thus he wins, because L. James is doing things he won't do in real life, and I can't get Garnett and Pierce to work together properly on defense. I'm not convinced that knowing the combinations better would help much...because people usually end up finding a method of play that works within the rules of the video game itself but has little correlation with reality.

Maybe if they took full advantage of keyboard mapping, and plays could be run with more diversity, and simple keystrokes could allow for a wide range of actions with or without the ball, then it would be different--like playing an RTS, perhaps. But I doubt it. The games aren't designed as sims. The stats, then, in my mind, are there mostly to give the appearance of reality--allowing them to pull in a wide range of fans from the casual to the stat geeks--and perhaps more so to cause discussion and hype. Really, it's amazing how much controversy is stirred up when the ratings for players are released. Even the players themselves get in on it via twitter.

Hopefully FIFA is better. Meh. I suck at gamepad games, and will just admit that I'm probably wrong anyway.
You're right and you're wrong. If you played the same people you're losing to with a team of NBA all-stars, and they used d-league players, I'm sure you would win. The stats do have a big effect.

Also, knowledge of real basketball is still player skill, so it sounds like you're grumpy because it's not a perfect model and someone else's skillset trumps yours.
 

Arkadin

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Also, knowledge of real basketball is still player skill, so it sounds like you're grumpy because it's not a perfect model and someone else's skillset trumps yours.
:D I'm grumpy for sure. I was calling upon the idea of "player skill" how most people do with RPGs, but you're right.
 

Kaanyrvhok

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The elevating of stats in games like NBA 2k series is funny because player skill is the dominant aspect of these games. I can't comment on other sports games, but knowing something about basketball doesn't actually help me much on these. It takes 5 seconds to look at the the ratings the players have and pick someone with high numbers. Then it's just manipulating the controller.

I have an understanding of the game of basketball and of the teams and players in the NBA over the past 25 years, but never does my knowledge of, say, how to challenge the Miami Heat come into play in the actual game. My opponent just learns button combinations better than I do, and thus he wins, because L. James is doing things he won't do in real life, and I can't get Garnett and Pierce to work together properly on defense. I'm not convinced that knowing the combinations better would help much...because people usually end up finding a method of play that works within the rules of the video game itself but has little correlation with reality.


From what I have seen nothing trumps simple experiance and 'know how'. In NBA 2k12 player stats and a precise manipulation of the controls are of relative equal importance depending on how good or bad you are at controlling the players and how good or bad their stats are. Basketball knowledge is of least importance. As the series improved basketball knowledge has upped its influance on pvp matchups.

At this point I would estimate that basketball is worth a game of experience online. Someone with 20 games under their belt and a supreme basketball intellect should have a good go at someone with 40 games and an ordinary basketball mind.
 

Arkadin

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That sounds reasonable enough. I haven't played online and have already admitted to being a fool with the controls. Do you think having an understanding of the different team weaknesses and strengths comes into play in online competition?
 

kris

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I'm calling it right now: NBA 2k13 for Codex game of the year. Not like there's much competition.

I nominate Football manager. You even have a conversation mini-game!

The beauty of sports games is that you can also mostly ignore the stats, and just play it for the action game it is. The stats still matter of course, it's a well designed system like that.

In a few (at least FIFA ones) you could actually play better with some inferior players due to how the game worked. I kept beating a friend with a second division team in FIFA2009 (or -10) because some slow poke player he never managed to tackle. :D They are kind of quirky that way and the best players are usually the ones that find the best exploits.
 

Kaanyrvhok

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That sounds reasonable enough. I haven't played online and have already admitted to being a fool with the controls. Do you think having an understanding of the different team weaknesses and strengths comes into play in online competition?


Its not as strategic as PES and FIFA but thats where its headed. After 2k3 player vs player sufferd until 2k11. I played 2k11 more online than all of the previous games combined. I had two wins against folks in the top 100 with an injured Portland Trail Blazer team. The exploits are reduced to the point where you only see them one out of ten games or so, so unlike previous NBA 2k games fine strategy does matter. It depends on the opponent though. People have different syles. I played a bunch of people who use the Bulls and do nothing but drive or shoot midrange shots with Rose so Ill call a trap and they wont pass the ball. If they know how to pass Rose is a real headache.

If you are having issues with the defensive stance in 2k12 its not you its the game. Defense doesnt control well in 2k12. Offense just takes practice. I can relate. I cant control stealth games with M&K and my controller is broke so Human Revolution is driving me nuts right now. I prefer M&K with firstperson games until I try to sneak.
 

Carrion

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In a few (at least FIFA ones) you could actually play better with some inferior players due to how the game worked. I kept beating a friend with a second division team in FIFA2009 (or -10) because some slow poke player he never managed to tackle. :D They are kind of quirky that way and the best players are usually the ones that find the best exploits.
I assume you're talking about the "old-gen" PC versions? The 2009 and 2010 games were full of exploits and godawful in a lot of different ways, but they're not really comparable with FIFA 12 or some of the other next-gen (current gen?) FIFAs. There are still some balance issues and cheesy ways to score goals, but the good thing is that they no longer work against good players.
 

Kaanyrvhok

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Sports games have been more RPG than games labeled as "RPG" for years now.

Imagine when elite nerds that look down on jocks figure this out...

Wont happen with the NBA geek trend going

Top 4 players in the finals.

Nerd-LeBron.jpg


DwyaneWade_Nerd_Chic_article-small_11235.jpg


Screen_Shot_2012-05-15_at_12.47.44_AM.png


Kevin-Durant-300x250.jpg
 

Arkadin

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:D I swear Westbrook and Rondo are competing for the worst-dressed point guard in the league.
 

Tick Tock Crocodile

Guest
:necro:

I was looking to pick up one of the NBA games. Which has the most fleshed-out MyPlayer/MyCareer mode? I've heard bad things about Spike Lee's involvement in 2k16.
 

Ovplain

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Well, never put THAT much time into the 'my player' thing, but gotta think 2K15 was pretty good on that front. With 2K16 though, you basically just have to suffer through the first year, the Spike Lee bullshit ends after that.
 

ikarinokami

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May 5, 2013
Messages
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2k15 is pretty good, and so was 2k14. the spike lee thing from 2k16 was kinda weak because it was so linear, it was really a movie, that took away the point of the game, because your performance as a player didn't affect the outcome in the least. it was more a preamble for your actual my career.
 

Tick Tock Crocodile

Guest
Well, never put THAT much time into the 'my player' thing, but gotta think 2K15 was pretty good on that front. With 2K16 though, you basically just have to suffer through the first year, the Spike Lee bullshit ends after that.

2k15 is pretty good, and so was 2k14. the spike lee thing from 2k16 was kinda weak because it was so linear, it was really a movie, that took away the point of the game, because your performance as a player didn't affect the outcome in the least. it was more a preamble for your actual my career.

Thanks. Guess I'll take a look at 2k15, then. I don't think I'll have the patience for the Spike Lee stuff.
 

Volourn

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Yeah the Spike Lee thing was bullshitz. and b/c of it your character couldn't even win Rookie of the Year. FUCK OFF.
 

ikarinokami

Augur
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
109
Well, never put THAT much time into the 'my player' thing, but gotta think 2K15 was pretty good on that front. With 2K16 though, you basically just have to suffer through the first year, the Spike Lee bullshit ends after that.

2k15 is pretty good, and so was 2k14. the spike lee thing from 2k16 was kinda weak because it was so linear, it was really a movie, that took away the point of the game, because your performance as a player didn't affect the outcome in the least. it was more a preamble for your actual my career.

Thanks. Guess I'll take a look at 2k15, then. I don't think I'll have the patience for the Spike Lee stuff.

I would wait for 2k17. it's supposed to be even more RPG, you will also be able to play in college and increase your draft standing, and allegedly the outcome and playthrough will changed depending on how well you play, it really sounds awesome. They realized that the spike lee thing was way too linear, so it sounds very promising.
 

Tick Tock Crocodile

Guest
I didn't release 2k17 was coming out so soon. Since it's out this month, I'll go ahead and wait for it. :salute:
 

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