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Cassidy

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Vault City
*redacted*
 
Last edited:

Baltika9

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Jun 27, 2012
Messages
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1)A. More people are good.
2)C. With the clashes our new settlement will have against the Old World, we might as well get the most modern equipment we can have.
3)D. Sounds about right, for transport.
4)C. Because our bro is a warrior, we'd better play to his strong suits. Warfare is one of them.
5)B. Don't want it mentioned too obviously, otherwise we won't make even make it to the KWA.
6)F. Because what is the point of knowing foreign languages and trade if you don't use it. Besides, it has explicitly been mentioned that Iceland has almost nothing in terms of useful goods, so we need to go to the best port to make up for it.
Also:
varangians.jpg

Varangian Guards are pretty cool guys.
7)G. What's wrong.=, Liberal Cassidy? Nah, 7E. Don't want anyone else grabbing the "future capital of the world," eh?
Seriously, though, thank you for continuing this LP, much appreciated. This is a time and setting you rarely(never) see explored, or even referenced, in games or films, even based on Nordic themes, outside of documentaries. CK2, for one(although, after Sunset Invasion, anything's possible); Skyrim could be made into so much more(Who am I kidding? Never trust Beth to do the job right, we'd probably end up a KRAKENBORN, fighting KRAKENS with INK SPRAYS of different colors and solving a civil turf moisture war between the Pirate Empire and Pirate Confederacy), just by including Viking exploration and naval battles as a theme. And those are just off the top of my head.

Much respect to you, bro.:bro:

Edit: and before you send in the Kodex Kill Krew, I'm not mentioning the favorite classics because it wouldn't fit thematically. Those two, however.
 

Azira

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 3, 2004
Messages
8,519
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark
Codex 2012
Voting time! I'm terribly boring though and vote almost exactly the same as Baltika9 here..

1A we want this devious old man with us. I don't think it's a trap, call it a gut feeling. But I also suspect him of being a much, much better peoples person than Agantyr, and he'll be a great help when recruiting others.
2C HULK! Really, with that name, how can we turn it down? :M Kidding aside, having large, seaworthy vessels seem worth it, and this type of vessel meshes finely with the choice in option number 6.
3C Here I'm going with three vessels. They're probably quite expensive those hulks, and we want extra bling to convince the Guard in choice 6..
4C Important for establishing early trade and building our own tools. Settling in the proper location will help mitigate any food problems we might encounter. Weapons we can smith when we get there, if we have the tools and ores.
5B Subtle hints seem great, we're going to create the great Freedom Loving nation across the ocean. No need to flaunt it just yet though.
6F Varangian guard. :bro:
7E Fertile lands, yet not so far south as to deprieve us of our beloved snow. :roll:
 

oscar

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Messages
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Location
NZ
1A - More the merrier
2B - The last thing we need is one of the damn ships sinking
3D - Sounds a good amount to have a sizable colony and room for goods
4C - If it weren't for our bumps into supernatural phenomena I'd say livestock, but it would seem we need to be able to self-sufficiently produce weaponry to defend ourselves
5B - We need the numbers. Hopefully we can Pagan-ise them over time
6C - More pagans and nearby
7C - Less butting heads with the eventual wave of Christian Europeans
 

Bloodshifter

Educated
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Messages
542
Location
Somewhere with dead bears
B-we don't wish to induce the church in getting the idea that all the heathens are fleeing from the stake
B-Knarrl *if possible also at least 1 hulk (to test sea worthiness) regalated to strict colonist and non metal supplies*
D-four to give the colony a good sized fleet
C-raw goods tend to go cheaper then processed weapons not to mention its easier to forget a man buying a large amount of metal then one buying swords lots of swords
B-we are Viking-kin other shall be tolerated at best
A-I trust those natives about as far as I can throw them
C-Quebec nuff said
 

Monty

Arcane
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
1,582
Location
Grognardia
Voting time! I'm terribly boring though and vote almost exactly the same as Baltika9 here..

1A we want this devious old man with us. I don't think it's a trap, call it a gut feeling. But I also suspect him of being a much, much better peoples person than Agantyr, and he'll be a great help when recruiting others.
2C HULK! Really, with that name, how can we turn it down? :M Kidding aside, having large, seaworthy vessels seem worth it, and this type of vessel meshes finely with the choice in option number 6.
3C Here I'm going with three vessels. They're probably quite expensive those hulks, and we want extra bling to convince the Guard in choice 6..
4C Important for establishing early trade and building our own tools. Settling in the proper location will help mitigate any food problems we might encounter. Weapons we can smith when we get there, if we have the tools and ores.
5B Subtle hints seem great, we're going to create the great Freedom Loving nation across the ocean. No need to flaunt it just yet though.
6F Varangian guard. :bro:
7E Fertile lands, yet not so far south as to deprieve us of our beloved snow. :roll:
I agree almost entirely with Azira, except I think we should set up our colony sooner rather than set off on a huge journey to Miklagard. A lot can happen on a trip like that, especially if we annoy the Emperor trying to recruit his guard, and the news of the New World is already spreading. If we make a success of our colony we can always send our ships back on a trading mission. I'm tempted to just head off immediately, but think I'll go with Oscar's suggestion of Uppsala which won't delay us too much and has a good supply of pagans.

1A Trusting the old man, who we know to have pagan leanings, is much better than telling every colonist our religious ideas in option 5
2C Yes we're taking a chance on the latest tech, but this will hopefully pay-off in the long term and allow us to send trading missions back to Europe with greater speed and capacity
3C Largest ships, so 3 should do.
4C We survived in the fertile lands we found with very little in the way of supplies last time. For a new colony I would focus on things we can't get over there, such as tools, weapons and livestock. But option C will allow us to make weapons and tools so seems the best choice. Although we'll have a bit of everything, we can possible focus on livestock, seeds and medical supplies in a future trading mission, we'll at least have weapons for hunting and defence and tools to build our settlement and cultivate the land.
5B
6C Quick trip for more pagan settlers, let's make the journey to Miklagard sometime in the future once the colony is established
7E Let's take Manhattan. Certainly not on the cursed lands or next to the bible-bashers.
 

Rumsfeld

Scholar
Joined
May 19, 2012
Messages
116
Location
Bilderberg HQ
The arguments have been made and the arguments are good. Although I'm going with 4 ships if we have the experimental design, so we don't lose 1/3 of our supplies if one goes down. Hard to tell how this will impact our finances, but seems a good long-term investment.

1A, 2C, 3D, 4C, 5B, 6C, 7E
 

Stygian Lurker

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
577
1) A) He seems trustworthy enough.
2) B) If it's possible take 4 Knarrs and one Hulk.
3) E) Five looks like enough ships to me.
4) F) Horses for transportation over land and livestock as food source.
5) B) We don't want to draw unwanted attention.
6) C) Same reason as oscar - More pagans and nearby.
7) E) Fertile land and far enough from Catholics.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
Another fantastic update, Cassidy. These last two have been superb. A few questions before I vote:

B) The only Christian priest in Uppsala is selling large quantities of "holy water" for a relatively accessible and cheap price as a means of funding the expansion of the currently quite small chapel, and he really tried to convince him to purchase some after realizing he may end visiting the temple. Angartyr would instantly dismiss such as bogus and profiteering from the paranoia brought by the strange case of the missing people in the temple, were not for the fact he sensed an otherwordly power in that water. Perhaps belief alone, rather than what such belief is directed at, is a power. A pity Angartyr isn't enough of a priest and devout to experiment blessing some water in the name of Thor, but this could be useful, regardless of the god it was consecrated for.

What about the lawgiver? Is he devout enough to consecrate water in the name of Thor? Our destination is Manhattan, but that's still somewhat close to the cursed shores where we met the sorcerer. Might not be smart to take chances there and avoid stocking up on cheap holy water. While the crossbows sound really nice and would allow a militia to be trained relatively quickly, we've already bought lots of iron already for the purpose of defense.

Also, should we decide on bringing along high quality horses, we won't have enough money for other livestock, is that correct? For example, no cows, sheep, pigs, etc? Correct me if I've misunderstood.

I think we ought to be very careful about voting for "practical" choices like letting Catholics on the expedition out of pragmatism: Cassidy's setting tidbits are telling me that we need to have some sort of ideology in place, and that this ideology must be consistent and sincerely believed in to give our character and the colony success. So none of this shit about letting in Christians just because they're useful - let them in because you want to have a society based on the ideals of liberty, for example. There needs to be some real conviction behind the choices that our character makes.

So based on the above, I've developed two plans:

Faith: Faith and belief provides the foundation of our expedition into the New World, and it's going to be crucial in allowing Agartyr and the colonists to survive in a hostile land. As long as we foster our faith and belief, we'll be okay.

F) Don't scoff at the firesticks: I could definitely see simple firecrackers working like napalm against supernatural horrors if they attain some sort of significance in our religious rituals in the New World. They could also work wonders in terms of fascinating the skrealingjar when it comes to diplomacy/trade as well, as well as raising the spirits of our people in general. When Cortes arrived in the New World, the Aztecs believed the conquistadors were gods when they rode their horses - sticks of flame could have the same effect.
A) Christians have taken the entire Old World, now we're going to let them set foot on the New? This new land is ours, and for our people alone.
D) The glassworks and metal ores that we've already purchased provide an excellent foundation for our would-be alchemist to create dazzling new inventions from. He might also learn how to create fireworks himself. We already have the tools and working space for a great mind to take advantage of.
A) Would have loved to make another stop, but after buying the wacky fireworks and getting the services of the crazy inventor, I don't think we can fuck around.
A) Dangerous, but restoring the temple is just what we need to get all the remaining pagans on our side. Cassidy, will our bro have a few flasks of holy water handy regardless of whether we buy a whole shipment or not?

Alternatively we could also go for horses: 1D, 2A, 3G, 4A, 5A. As far as I know, there are no horses in the New World at the moment. This is huge and it would provide us with a tremendous edge in both agriculture and warfare. Once we start getting our furnaces running in the New World and we build some farming tools/plows/horse collars, feeding our people won't be a problem. Training them to ride horses and fight will still be hard and a different matter altogether, but we'll have a serious edge against the natives.

Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness: Enlightenment and opportunity for everyone will be our ideal here.

B) Holy water would allow us to deal with any supernatural threats we encounter, especially since we're bringing Christians along. It's also pretty cheap which is a plus. I'm also rather fond of the militiamen with crossbows, too, I guess.
C)
E) I know it seems counter-intuitive: allow Christians on the expedition, then bring the philosopher along that we would have been able to pick up anyways. Considering the options we'd have and our previous choice, the blacksmith + meteor metal seems to be a better call, no? My rationale here is that a guy like this would allow us to develop our people ideologically - we would have something firm to believe in. Also, a great scholar and orator would be the perfect individuals to prevent any infighting between pagans and Christians. Maintaining unity is crucial, and we can't fall victim to infighting.
B) The update mentioned that holy water is cheap, so maybe a quick trip to the nearest center of trade to get some livestock before our big adventure might be good. On the other hand, we could run afoul of Christians since we haven't really been keeping things secret. I could flop to A on this, but I'd rather risk it if it means we could bring more food and herbal remedies along with us for the trip.
A) B is the smarter choice here, but fuck, I want to see what's in there! There's no real reason to go in with the Christians bolstering our expedition numbers.

Right now, I am voting for:

1F 2A 3D 4A 5A
 

Monty

Arcane
Joined
Mar 24, 2012
Messages
1,582
Location
Grognardia
Good points by Esquilax. I think that, from our 21st century viewpoint, it would be easy to vote for an enlightened society where all religions are welcomed. But given what Angartyr has been through at the hands of Christians I think it very unlikely he would welcome Christians into the colony (or even buy 'holy' Christian water). The whole motivation for the new colony is a return to the old Gods, while Europe (and the other colony in the New World) are dominated by Christianity. Why allow Christianity to develop in the early days of our colony too, when it is clear that Christians regard it as their duty to attempt to spread their religion and once again eliminate the 'blasphemous' worship of our Gods?

We voted for metals and forging in our last update, tempting as items such as meteoric ore and crossbows are, I think we should go for the horses and horse trainer. This will give us a huge advantage in exploration, trade, combat, agriculture - perfect for establishing ourselves in the New World. My understanding from the last update was our ships were loaded with a bit of everything (supplies, livestock, weapons, seeds, etc) with more of what we focused on - ores and now horses. So I think we would have some other livestock, but not much.

I think we should move on to our colony now, rather than making any more trading stops. And while we don't have to solve the problems in the old temple it sounds interesting so let's do it.

1D, 2A, 3G, 4A, 5A
 

Cassidy

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Vault City
What about the lawgiver? Is he devout enough to consecrate water in the name of Thor?

Certainly, but he won't have more than a couple of years left before dying of old age. And he didn't travel to Uppsala, which means that if you think that some holy water could be useful against whatever could be inside the temple, the only option is to buy from the priest.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
And about Christians: bros, I feel obliged to put this out here
A proper colonization effort will draw a lot of unwanted attention, specially if it clearly involves recent "converts", and considering the primary reasoning behind it in this, it definitively will involve lots of "Christians" reembracing their true beliefs to the old gods. There was a reason why the matter of the shrine to the gods was at vote for example, it may seem small but it shall bring consequences once colonization gets real. Consequences being that there will be no way to reason with Christian zealots other than to split their skulls open with an axe or beheading them with a sword, and having to declare independence as a mean of ensuring the religious laws of Denmark won't be enforced in the New World, and then slaughtering even more zealots and more and more until they give up.

Had you chosen to not build the shrine, once the time comes to deal with it, a more diplomatic and sneaky way to handle the Church and Denmark would be available. But I guess you imagined there is no fun in that.
We already set the colonization up to be in the name of the Old Ones, however indirect the hints were, and that little shrine only solidifies that. Also, I doubt the followers of Odin would take kindly to them. Bringing in Christians is a bad idea, I'd say, period.

Stemming from this, I would say that we need a good military to tide us over the hard times, which means crossbows+the tactician or making Byzanthium our next port-of-call, after we gather more wealth in Vinland. Personally, I wish for the latter and still retain some hope that you are man enough to work with the Varangian Guard, so these are my votes:
1F- Esquilax is right when he speaks of their ritual significance, and since we already put down religious roots, might as well capitalize on that.
2A- Already explained.
3D- Synergy with 1F.
4A- Need more bling.
5A- ANGARTYR, HERO OF THE OLD GODS!!! What better way to attract colonists and impress the Varangians in the future than such a fancy title?

What about the lawgiver? Is he devout enough to consecrate water in the name of Thor?

Certainly, but he won't have more than a couple of years left before dying of old age. And he didn't travel to Uppsala, which means that if you think that some holy water could be useful against whatever could be inside the temple, the only option is to buy from the priest.
Best make use of him now, then.

PS 2: Picking G in the first choice WILL NOT lead to Domination of the Draka esque results. So don't be predictable WCDS and KKKodex.
Fear not, the Aryan Vikings need not the help of slaves.
VINLAND STRONG, REMOVE OBONGO!
 
Joined
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Messages
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1A - Crossbows make for effective weapons even in the hands of green militia. Plus, they can be used for hunting as well. And maybe we could figure out how to make more.
2B - Well, if it will be only a few useful and not crazy people, why not? They'll be surrounded by the old faith, so maybe in the new world pagans convert you? And it's not as if christians won't be coming by soon anyway, so we will have to deal with this sooner or later. And this also let's us have:
3A - Because it works well with our primary cargo. We have the material for weapons, armor and tools - so let's make the best possible use for it. Would you let a novice weaponsmith take over the forge when there's a master dwarf idle? Fuck no. We need to get the best return for our investment in the previous choice to make our colony successful when the christians do come to visit us.
4A - Let's get out there as soon as possible.
5A - A quest!
 

oscar

Arcane
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NZ
1A - I would take the fine horses but as I interpreted it the text says this would mean fewer livestock of other kind. Should be enough to keep the Injuns at bay
2A - Not much point in voting for B as I'm not picking a Christian specialist. We already have plenty of Norse colonists and religious division will simply be trouble we don't need.
3D - In the long run to survive we're going to need some sort of tech edge to keep up with Europeans
4A - We're running low on funds and have plenty of colonists already
5B - A risk that we're in no pressing need to take right now.

I'm tempted to take fireworks as it could lead to early muskets or somesuch in conjunction with the alchemist. I'm pretty torn between the philosopher and the alchemist. Literacy might be more useful in the long-run then the "one off" bonus of the alchemist. I'll think about this some more.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
1A - Crossbows make for effective weapons even in the hands of green militia. Plus, they can be used for hunting as well. And maybe we could figure out how to make more.
2B - Well, if it will be only a few useful and not crazy people, why not? They'll be surrounded by the old faith, so maybe in the new world pagans convert you? And it's not as if christians won't be coming by soon anyway, so we will have to deal with this sooner or later. And this also let's us have:
3A - Because it works well with our primary cargo. We have the material for weapons, armor and tools - so let's make the best possible use for it. Would you let a novice weaponsmith take over the forge when there's a master dwarf idle? Fuck no. We need to get the best return for our investment in the previous choice to make our colony successful when the christians do come to visit us.
4A - Let's get out there as soon as possible.
5A - A quest!

Since I was the one who initially suggested going all-out on Faith, I feel I ought to justify this decision. My rationale here is that belief and faith is a very powerful force, particularly when it comes to the supernatural, so in order to succeed, we can't just see the world as this mundane place where relying purely on logic will save the day. A Kreia quote comes to mind: "And this is why a common soldier will never triumph against a Jedi. Your 'military tactics' are nothing compared to the Force. The militiamen and crossbows will no doubt be effective against hostile native tribes, but we're going to need a lot more than that to face the otherworldly horrors that are out there.

Yes, faith alone won't beat off a raid of angry natives raiding our fledgling settlement (and that's the weak area of my proposal at the moment, we'd be vulnerable at first), but given Manhattan's close proximity to the cursed shores we were at before, I believe we really ought to stand firm with our faith, which is our entire reason for leaving. The Christians already took our home, so we have to find a new one - that means that we have to take care of our own.

As for your particular set of votes, wouldn't 1C/3A make more sense? I also like Baltika9 's suggestion for 1A/3H as well. Meteor metal and ores + master blacksmith seems a great fit given that we've already picked out the raw materials. I have to admit, I was incredibly tempted by the prospect of having steel of such great quality with us in the New World - it's an immense advantage, especially given the choices we've made. Nevertheless, I really think that we ought to take a hard line on this to maintain the spiritual integrity of our voyage. That's also why I'm in favour of taking a trip into the temple: it's risky and if things go badly, it will fuck up our voyage completely, but it might also strengthen our faith and gain us more supporters.

Also, Cassidy, to echo what oscar was wondering about, will going for horses mean we won't have enough money for other livestock?
 
Joined
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Messages
2,951
A Kreia quote comes to mind: "And this is why a common soldier will never triumph against a Jedi. Your 'military tactics' are nothing compared to the Force.

Fuck Jedi and their plot armor. And fuck ranged weapons that can be deflected with a melee weapon. Let's see those assholes try that against a real laser, explosives or even just an automatic slug thrower. But we can't have that now, can't we? Because that could actually work.

Sorry about that rant. Back to topic.

I didn't vote 1C because I very much doubt the usefulness of meteoric iron. There will be very little of it, it will be very expensive and in a realistic setting its quality is (at best) comparable to mundane steel. Now, it could be that in this setting it also has some supernatural qualities, but I don't wish to risk taking it instead of crossbows that could make our militia do something else apart from suck and die. A master smith will make do with mundane material just fine - no need to go for the extra exotic material.

Taking a few useful christians along doesn't bother me particularly. They will be a very small minority, so if they have any sense they will keep their heads down. In fact, conversions to the old faith would be much more likely in this case. And we probably already have at least some closet christians among the colonists anyway. Some are there because of the promise of wealth in the new world, some because their families are. But make no mistake - they are there. A few more won't make a difference.
 

oscar

Arcane
Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Messages
8,036
Location
NZ
I'd say that you shouldn't bother taking the Christians at all unless you want one of the Christian specialists.
 

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