Your favorite PnP RPG system?

[Dead Guy]

Haven't played a lot of English PnPs, really. The Vampire rulseset had a good pace to it but I found it too simplistic.

My favourite system is EON, a Swedish fantasy RPG. It has an incredible combat system that handles armor and damage types (slashing, crushing and piercing) miles better than anything else I've played. It also handles injuries in a comletely unique way compared to boring hit points. All this intricacy obviously makes it extremely clunky and slow though, so it's not for everyone.

It also had a version of the "eploding" dice, but instead of taking the max from the first roll, you rolled two new dice for each one that had exploded, making it possible for the exploded die to score lower than it did to begin with. Skill checks were made against skill level, usually between like 5 and 15-17 depending on experience. Depending on the difficulty of the action performed, you used more or less D6, easy = 2d6, normal 3d6 and so on. Performing many actions during a round of combat made all the rolls one level more difficult. So if dice started exploding for a skillcheck...

Most damage rolls were also made using exploding d6, and depending on how high a total you rolled, you'd do an amount of more dangerous effects compared to base damage for that weapon which was usually counted as X pain, Y trauma and Z bleeding points. The effects were then rolled for and could range from a slightly bigger gash caused by a slashing weapon, to hitting an artery causing massive bleeding (and certain death in a few rounds), or crushing bone with a crushing weapon for extreme pain and trauma leading to very likely loss of counciousness but not too likely to cause death depending on where you were hit.

It led to some amazingly unpredictable results, for example someone started a bar brawl for fun, some bum pulled a small knife and stabbed him and the dice started exploding, and he was struck in the heart and promptly died from blood loss a turn later. Combat was so much more dangerous than in some other systems. It made it more about not getting hit at all in the first place rather than people just wailing away at each other like idiots.

 

[mediocrepoet]

For fantasy dungeon crawling, I like 3E D&D the most just because of all the feats and the ways you can tool around with stuff to customize your character. I absolutely hated what prestige classes turned into (power packs that generally made the base classes obsolete) as opposed to what they were originally talked about as: flavour classes for specific worlds plus weird niche classes that wouldn't just be a super version of the base classes. It's been used well in a few CRPGs which everyone probably knows by heart.

For other, I have a really soft spot for West End Games' Star Wars Roleplaying Game (2nd Ed.) based on the D6 system. The ruleset has flaws like strength based damage soaking with high strength characters... but it manages to capture a fairly cinematic game style with its attribute and skill system and the way its mechanics are resolved. I had a really great time with it. It's never been used in an CRPG, though with some of its resolution mechanics, I'm not sure how well it'd lend itself to it. If it were adapted, I can't imagine it being anything other than a (probably clunky) turn based game.

I also have a soft spot for Over the Edge. It was a really minimalist game that was more based on shared storytelling in a weird conspiracy setting on an island. But you'd just define a few positive traits and one negative trait and based on how broad they are, you'd have so many dice to roll for things related to that. (e.g. you could be agile which might help you dodge, do gymnastics, etc. or you might be a skilled butcher which might give you some knowledge of anatomy, skill with knives, etc.) Absolutely every roll not defined by the few traits you pick out were rolled at a given base rate. Character sheets were very minimal, combat tended to be fairly lethal since you were usually relatively normal people stuck in strange situations. It was a lot of fun. It was never a CRPG and I seriously doubt it'd lend itself well to the medium... most of the fun of the game, beyond the setting stuff is defining a character and then ruling out with the GM when your traits actually applied to rolls. Such a system would be severely handicapped by having to be predefined in a CRPG.

 

[Wolfus]

I really like old WoD games but unfortunately I have no one to play with so I stick with Czech PnP game Dračí Doupě (old AD&D clone) which is most known here.

 

[Alex]

I'm trying to recall the name of an rpg someone on the Codex mentioned a while ago.

Plots were randomly generated based on a few sentences, and seemed low fantasy and Howard-esque. Each player had conflicting goals depending on the character they were.

Was it In a Wicked Age by any chance? It is the only one I know uses something like that.

 

[hoverdog]

I haven't played p&p for quite a few years, unfortunately. When I did, I mostly used Warhammer (1st edition), which is OK I guess, but nothing spectacular. Still, it was my first system, I am a bit sentimental, and the warhammer world's fun.

My favourite system is probably Earthdawn. I like it both for its classic, but interesting setting and several mechanical solutions, like how magic items work and why characters are actually heroes and not just expeasants with swords. It also features vancian magic that actually makes sense, and some fun races (like little flying elves [fairies?] and rockmen).

I'm in two minds about D&D (2nd and 3rd). It works nicely in computer games, but I absolutely loathe how characters' power curve is done.

Bonus feature: TABELA, system with absolutely the best character creation ever :D

 

[oscar]

I'm trying to recall the name of an rpg someone on the Codex mentioned a while ago.

Plots were randomly generated based on a few sentences, and seemed low fantasy and Howard-esque. Each player had conflicting goals depending on the character they were.

Was it In a Wicked Age by any chance? It is the only one I know uses something like that.

That's the one!

 

[Alex]

I'm trying to recall the name of an rpg someone on the Codex mentioned a while ago.

Plots were randomly generated based on a few sentences, and seemed low fantasy and Howard-esque. Each player had conflicting goals depending on the character they were.

Was it In a Wicked Age by any chance? It is the only one I know uses something like that.

That's the one!

Glad to be of help. The system in that game is a bit simple, I think. But if that is not of your taste, you can obviously just use the oracle mechanics to generate the initial situation and then use whatever system you like.

 

[oscar]

Yeah it seemed pretty interesting as a sort of low-fantasy, sword-and-sorcery scenario generator.

 

[Akasen]

I've been working with Shadowrun 4e and have enjoyed the system on paper. Will have to get back to you after more play though.

The Storyteller system from White Wolf, used with Vampire: The Masquerade and other cWoD games, is absolutely marvelous though. Character Creation and dice rolls make my heart flutter just sitting there and reading up on the rules to V20. Before I ever really delved into reading V20 (Vampire: The Masquerade 20th Anniversary Edition) I was cautioned that the game is very story driven, very heavy on roleplaying. Was quite the warning to give as Vampire did reveal itself to be a completely different beast than D&D/Pathfinder. I have buds who want to play Vampire: The Masquerade with me now and I have trouble effectively thinking of the story I want to guide them through. Oh the joys of GMing :D.

 

[Excidium]

I like Storyteller. And WHFRP 2E/Dark Heresy.

Riddle of Steel too, combat resolution in that game is p. awesome. Would that a CRPG ever made combat that is fast and deadly instead of slow and cumbersome.

I've been working with Shadowrun 4e and have enjoyed the system on paper. Will have to get back to you after more play though.

Yeah it's p. cool, I think that's a system that can translate well to a CRPG.

 

[Grunker]

I hate Warhammer's system, but I really like Storyteller for quick and simple handling of rules in a story-driven game.

 

[Alex]

I hate Warhammer's system, but I really like Storyteller for quick and simple handling of rules in a story-driven game.

I don't really hate its system, though I think it is a bit too cluttered. I think the percentage skills work much better in Call of C'thulhu where your characters aren't supposed to change much over the game, so they start already competent. In WH40k you have to keep throwing modifiers and what not to most of the rolls. And then you have to consider those degrees of succes or failure, the supernatural modifiers to attributes and what not, it ends being a little hard to keep track.

But my real complaint about 40k is that I think the original setting, from Rogue Trader, before they wrote hundred upon hundreds about space marines or decided to take all that crap about grimdark seriously, looked much more fun to play into. It was a place where space dwarves could unite with space elves and fight space orks. It was a place where having an inquisitor called Obiwan Sherlock Clouseau was a possibility. It was a place where, I think, it wouldn't be out of place to stop a fight because there was a blood bowl 40000 game coming up.

 

[Excidium]

So because you can't keep yourself from deviating from the stabilished fiction you'd rather have a clusterfuck where anything goes?

 

[Alex]

Yes.

 

[Scroo]

I'd have to say AD&D (2nd Ed). Never played the first edition, but I guess I would like it either. Unfortunately I am forced to play Pathfinder because my group thinks "newer = better" but whatever. I still try to slow PF down like fuck, it took my players 6 months just to get to level 2. Fortunately they don't mind the slow leveling and the fact that there's no "magic mart" where you can buy whatever magic shit you want.

 

[Excidium]

Yes.

And I can understand that, but I'd make sure the rest of the players are on the same level. Usually people choose a proprietary setting like Warhammer to play an adventure that explores its themes and fiction instead of the GM's own views.

 

[Alex]

Yes.

And I can understand that, but I'd make sure the rest of the players are on the same level. Usually people choose a proprietary setting like Warhammer to play an adventure that explores its themes and fiction instead of the GM's own views.

Nah, I am pretty sure anyone wanting to play that actually has the same feelings as me about that issue.

 

[Excidium]

 

[Chuftie]

Human Occupied Landfill, its mechanics does ST's schtick better than ST and its setting is pretty

Also that Traveller lifepath charts in the supplement for it is pretty lolz too

 

[Wolfus]

What about FATE/FUDGE?

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Hmmmmm... I'd say it's a toss between HERO system and Twilight 2013. Personally I don't stick to a favourite system though, seeing how a system is closely tied to the genre of the game itself.

 

[Alex]

What about FATE/FUDGE?

What I dislike about Fate is that all those rules to deal with aspects are way more formalized than they ought to be, I think. That said, I think some of the books I have read had a few quite cool ideas.

Hmmmmm... I'd say it's a toss between HERO system and Twilight 2013. Personally I don't stick to a favourite system though, seeing how a system is closely tied to the genre of the game itself.

Any thoughts about the 6th edition of HERO? I have the books, but I haven't had the chance to play it yet. The same is true about Twilight 2013. The game seems like it could be a lot of fun in a survival campaign where you push the whole strength of the elements and the weight of the ruining civilization against the players. What are your thoughts about it?

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Hmmmmm... I'd say it's a toss between HERO system and Twilight 2013. Personally I don't stick to a favourite system though, seeing how a system is closely tied to the genre of the game itself.

Any thoughts about the 6th edition of HERO? I have the books, but I haven't had the chance to play it yet. The same is true about Twilight 2013. The game seems like it could be a lot of fun in a survival campaign where you push the whole strength of the elements and the weight of the ruining civilization against the players. What are your thoughts about it?

I haven't had a chance to really dabble into HERO's latest edition. I did like some of the consolidation of stats and mechanics they did in it when I went over it. Few people are prepared for such a throughout system. Still, I hold HERO in high regard because 1) it's extremely flexible, 2) it can actually handle a Justice League type game with Batman and Superman being important in the same goddamn encounter, 3) STUN/BODY and invulnerable characters are hands down the best presentation of a flying brick slugfest. And of course, the action system and how everything clicks together.

In case of Twilight 2013, two words: Military Porn. The system is unmatched for any kind of realistic modern combat, I've used it to run a Winter War game, I've taken part in an actual Twilight game, and so forth. Pretty much the only thing you should remember to do is use the threshold house ruling one of the military consultants for the game, Tatu Salonen (I know him personally), made which model reality much better with your limbs and head being less likely to suffer critical damage than your torso. I also really like the Lifepath system for character creation.


(PS: And I am speaking purely from a mechanical viewpoint, without taking settings and the like into account. Just the RPGs I find to have the best systems going on for them)

 

[Alex]

By the way, I wouldn't really be able to choose a system as my "favorite", though there are many games I respect a lot in design terms. I have talked here before about Burning Wheel and Apocalypse World, for example. There is one game, however, whoch I never even got a chance to play yet, that I think is extremely well made. Aces & Eights from Kenzer and Company is just chock full of interesting ideas. Th book comes with all kinds of systems you can use to deal with activities common to the old west. It has a very nice hex map for driving the cattle, for example, with rules as to how different areas affect the quality of the final product. Or a simple rules system to simulate horse chases using cards. Even its combat system is interesting, I think, using a shot clock over a silhouette of whatever it is you are trying to hit. The shot clock is basically a transparent sheet that tells you how your bullet strays from the aim depending on how well you roll your attack and what card you draw.

My point is that with all those considerations, the game seems like it would be a blast to play as a sandbox. The systems in the book are pretty easy to understand and modify, meaning they aren't sterile mini-games, as a character can always bring new concerns to them. And you can build on them too, so that you could even, if you wanted, play a whole campaign centered around the gold fever and the PCs attempts to get rich without having the big companies back east take over everything.

All in all, it is a very different approach from, say, Burning Wheel, and I think you may play it both as a simulationist heaven or as a gamist RPG full of exploration. I actually like it more than I like the new Hackmaster edition, and I hoped they would have drawn more from it (though maybe the GMG will change my mind?).

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Even the wargames I GM aren't very "simulationist" in approach. I'm a gigantic narrative-fag when it comes to PnP, and I think the system's most important function is to serve the story and genre of the game, providing the necessary framework for telling the story and handling interactions. I'm quite fond of playing PnP on teh internets nowadays, seeing how I can go a lot deeper into the psychology and emotional states of my characters, and think, refine and edit to achieve the best results from an observer's viewpoint. And of course, with these it's easier to achieve the ideal 90/10 ratio between actual roleplaying and action, since the format allows for a bit more self-indulgence with characterization. I'm also of the mind that PC death is something that GMs should in a good narrative avoid like the plague (because in a good narrative the bio section won't consist of "Thordek is a Dwarf Fighter", and thus introducing new dramatically important protagonists would cause serious disruptions), and that the true test of a GMs skills is not the creation of danger but the ILLUSION of danger (this is like that thing Mister Plinkett was talking about).

One incident I remember quite fondly was when I ran the campaign I consider the first "me" campaign, having the kind of style and approach I like, in a student apartment of one of my acquiantances. It was a simple story that I had planned out, basically being a Vampire: The Requiem game that happened in the shadows of Call of Cthulhu (this of course was only possible because none of the players had read Lovecraft so they never had any meta knowledge to tell them about the various things going on, or the Norwegian sailors that suddenly appear on their boat at the ending). Anyway, during the second session one of the neighbours of the guy shows up, somewhat drunk, and sits there to watch us. At one point he interrupts and slurs that he's rather perplexed because he didn't expect RPGs to be like that, that it seemed we were rehearsing a movie or a play or something since barely any dice were being rolled and there was no combat anywhere (to this day I'm particularly proud of the fact that the fucking VAMPIRES were scared of goddamn fish people on the player side of things, completely oblivious to the fact they could kill them en masse if they tried, the presentation and revelation just made the players assume these things were hot shit and they should run away). Of course, it helped that I had assembled a proper movie style soundtrack for the game beforehand and used that throughout its length (I've found these help a lot, for example that one Godlike campaign I pitched here too at one point too is basically built around the song from Gran Torino).

The fishmen example obviously also sorta ties in with the importance of the illusion of danger over actual sudden death. I know some people love Tomb of Horrors style games, but I don't and I think it's a very good thing. I've never seen the appeal of a simulationist, explorationist or gamist approach, narrative-faggotry is the only way to RP for me. To me, all other categories can be done just as well or better by boardgames or video games, with a lot less hassle.