US: “Six Strikes” Anti-Piracy Scheme Starts Monday

[Zewp]

And most console users buy second hand games to the point where publishers are now trying to kill the second-hand market. What's your point?

 

[DraQ]

Comcast, Time Warner Cable, AT&T, Cablevision and Verizon.

I'm safe. Too bad most of these companies have monopolies in their areas. Actually, that's probably the only reason they agreed to this deal.

This is something I don't entirely understand about the Kwan telecommunications industry. I live in the center of Potato, and I have at least 5 internet providers available to me, both nation-wide corporations and local cable companies. So how does a company hold a monopoly in an area in regards to services like these? Do they actually own the physical infrastructure and refuse to lease it to anyone else?

That's exactly it.

Most governments force the owners of the infrastructure to lease it to smaller companies so as to create competition, but the US doesn't force them to.

It's like TP S.A., only worse.

Oh god.

 

[Hellraiser]

Yes, console gamers pay good money for their games because developing for consoles is more costly (dev kits etc.) and publishers need to give a cut to the console manufacturer. The only thing consoles have going for them is a huge userbase, full of idiots at that. A combination which makes any market appealing.

New business models are needed. For one it is pretty clear that something is wrong with the music industry. Record companies are doing the same mistake which finally buried Kodak not so long ago (Remember those guys? The titan of photography for over a century?), they ignore the changes in technology which change consumer demand and do not exploit them before new competitors put them out of business. The MPAA is guilty of this as well, of course we live in a high risk aversion environment and the average corporate CEO will nearly always go for the quick easy buck as opposed to looking how to make money in the long run. The facts are the RIAA and MPAA enforced a status quo on the market which was beneficial for them but not necessarily the consumer. Region locks on DVDs are one example.

But with the advent of online piracy, which gave potential consumers a choice to avoid the bullshit setup made by the MPAA and RIAA easily, their status quo started to collapse, and rather than adapt and try to find new ways to bring back the consumer they just want to continue nickel-and-diming him and plug their ears while saying "lalalalala you're evil thieves lalalalala" rather than figuring out why people pirate and how can they make them buy more stuff instead. Sure, pirating instead of buying hurts the artist, but the artist has been hurt by bullshit the record companies and studios put into their contracts for ages. The facts are that musicians nowadays can afford their own recording studios (all you need is a PC, some good external or internal studio soundcard, software and soundproofing a room, not as expensive as you think to get good quality as even my brother and other amateurs like him can afford it in potatoland) and they can use websites to sell their music on much better terms than the record companies ever offered. If all was well with the current business model, the musicians would not flee from the big labels and the consumers would not allow them to do that in the first place.

The record industry in particular is a giant anachronism, there is no need for intermediaries between the musicians and the buyer now as the means of distribution and recording are easily available. It has no purpose period which is why it is dying, just like Kodak did. Failure to meet changing consumer expectations due to rise of new technologies. Now sure, the netflix pricing/service model may not be great, but there is a demand for online TV/video services and all it takes to make a profit off it is finding a model that works. One will be found eventually.

 

[Commander Xbox]

Yes, console gamers pay good money for their games because developing for consoles is more costly (dev kits etc.) and publishers need to give a cut to the console manufacturer. The only thing consoles have going for them is a huge userbase, full of idiots at that. A combination which makes any market appealing.

New business models are needed. For one it is pretty clear that something is wrong with the music industry. Record companies are doing the same mistake which finally buried Kodak not so long ago (Remember those guys? The titan of photography for over a century?), they ignore the changes in technology which change consumer demand and do not exploit them before new competitors put them out of business. The MPAA is guilty of this as well, of course we live in a high risk aversion environment and the average corporate CEO will nearly always go for the quick easy buck as opposed to looking how to make money in the long run. The facts are the RIAA and MPAA enforced a status quo on the market which was beneficial for them but not necessarily the consumer. Region locks on DVDs are one example.

But with the advent of online piracy, which gave potential consumers a choice to avoid the bullshit setup made by the MPAA and RIAA easily, their status quo started to collapse, and rather than adapt and try to find new ways to bring back the consumer they just want to continue nickel-and-diming him and plug their ears while saying "lalalalala you're evil thieves lalalalala" rather than figuring out why people pirate and how can they make them buy more stuff instead. Sure, pirating instead of buying hurts the artist, but the artist has been hurt by bullshit the record companies and studios put into their contracts for ages. The facts are that musicians nowadays can afford their own recording studios (all you need is a PC, some good external or internal studio soundcard, software and soundproofing a room, not as expensive as you think to get good quality as even my brother and other amateurs like him can afford it in potatoland) and they can use websites to sell their music on much better terms than the record companies ever offered. If all was well with the current business model, the musicians would not flee from the big labels and the consumers would not allow them to do that in the first place.

The record industry in particular is a giant anachronism, there is no need for intermediaries between the musicians and the buyer now as the means of distribution and recording are easily available. It has no purpose period which is why it is dying, just like Kodak did. Failure to meet changing consumer expectations due to rise of new technologies. Now sure, the netflix pricing/service model may not be great, but there is a demand for online TV/video services and all it takes to make a profit off it is finding a model that works. One will be found eventually.

or they could make a closed platform that is 10x more effort to pirate on and make games for that instead

which is what they did. pc gaming is done

 

[Zewp]

Maybe if publishers stopped punishing their legitimate customers for buying their games and not pirating it more PC gamers would buy games? Just a thought.

Regardless, the independent developer gaming scene begs to differ with your tinfoil hat idea that PC gaming is dying.

 

[evdk]

It looks like that apart from a board for Made for Console Popamole RPGs we need a one for Made for Console Popamole Posters as well. This may or may not be an euphemism for taking them behind the shed to be shot.

 

[hoverdog]

Yes, console gamers pay good money for their games because developing for consoles is more costly (dev kits etc.) and publishers need to give a cut to the console manufacturer. The only thing consoles have going for them is a huge userbase, full of idiots at that. A combination which makes any market appealing.

New business models are needed. For one it is pretty clear that something is wrong with the music industry. Record companies are doing the same mistake which finally buried Kodak not so long ago (Remember those guys? The titan of photography for over a century?), they ignore the changes in technology which change consumer demand and do not exploit them before new competitors put them out of business. The MPAA is guilty of this as well, of course we live in a high risk aversion environment and the average corporate CEO will nearly always go for the quick easy buck as opposed to looking how to make money in the long run. The facts are the RIAA and MPAA enforced a status quo on the market which was beneficial for them but not necessarily the consumer. Region locks on DVDs are one example.

But with the advent of online piracy, which gave potential consumers a choice to avoid the bullshit setup made by the MPAA and RIAA easily, their status quo started to collapse, and rather than adapt and try to find new ways to bring back the consumer they just want to continue nickel-and-diming him and plug their ears while saying "lalalalala you're evil thieves lalalalala" rather than figuring out why people pirate and how can they make them buy more stuff instead. Sure, pirating instead of buying hurts the artist, but the artist has been hurt by bullshit the record companies and studios put into their contracts for ages. The facts are that musicians nowadays can afford their own recording studios (all you need is a PC, some good external or internal studio soundcard, software and soundproofing a room, not as expensive as you think to get good quality as even my brother and other amateurs like him can afford it in potatoland) and they can use websites to sell their music on much better terms than the record companies ever offered. If all was well with the current business model, the musicians would not flee from the big labels and the consumers would not allow them to do that in the first place.

The record industry in particular is a giant anachronism, there is no need for intermediaries between the musicians and the buyer now as the means of distribution and recording are easily available. It has no purpose period which is why it is dying, just like Kodak did. Failure to meet changing consumer expectations due to rise of new technologies. Now sure, the netflix pricing/service model may not be great, but there is a demand for online TV/video services and all it takes to make a profit off it is finding a model that works. One will be found eventually.

or they could make a closed platform that is 10x more effort to pirate on and make games for that instead

which is what they did. pc gaming is done

you're not even trying.

 

[Commander Xbox]

Yes, console gamers pay good money for their games because developing for consoles is more costly (dev kits etc.) and publishers need to give a cut to the console manufacturer. The only thing consoles have going for them is a huge userbase, full of idiots at that. A combination which makes any market appealing.

New business models are needed. For one it is pretty clear that something is wrong with the music industry. Record companies are doing the same mistake which finally buried Kodak not so long ago (Remember those guys? The titan of photography for over a century?), they ignore the changes in technology which change consumer demand and do not exploit them before new competitors put them out of business. The MPAA is guilty of this as well, of course we live in a high risk aversion environment and the average corporate CEO will nearly always go for the quick easy buck as opposed to looking how to make money in the long run. The facts are the RIAA and MPAA enforced a status quo on the market which was beneficial for them but not necessarily the consumer. Region locks on DVDs are one example.

But with the advent of online piracy, which gave potential consumers a choice to avoid the bullshit setup made by the MPAA and RIAA easily, their status quo started to collapse, and rather than adapt and try to find new ways to bring back the consumer they just want to continue nickel-and-diming him and plug their ears while saying "lalalalala you're evil thieves lalalalala" rather than figuring out why people pirate and how can they make them buy more stuff instead. Sure, pirating instead of buying hurts the artist, but the artist has been hurt by bullshit the record companies and studios put into their contracts for ages. The facts are that musicians nowadays can afford their own recording studios (all you need is a PC, some good external or internal studio soundcard, software and soundproofing a room, not as expensive as you think to get good quality as even my brother and other amateurs like him can afford it in potatoland) and they can use websites to sell their music on much better terms than the record companies ever offered. If all was well with the current business model, the musicians would not flee from the big labels and the consumers would not allow them to do that in the first place.

The record industry in particular is a giant anachronism, there is no need for intermediaries between the musicians and the buyer now as the means of distribution and recording are easily available. It has no purpose period which is why it is dying, just like Kodak did. Failure to meet changing consumer expectations due to rise of new technologies. Now sure, the netflix pricing/service model may not be great, but there is a demand for online TV/video services and all it takes to make a profit off it is finding a model that works. One will be found eventually.

or they could make a closed platform that is 10x more effort to pirate on and make games for that instead

which is what they did. pc gaming is done

you're not even trying.

the truth hurts

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

The record industry in particular is a giant anachronism, there is no need for intermediaries between the musicians and the buyer now as the means of distribution and recording are easily available. It has no purpose period which is why it is dying, just like Kodak did.

Record labels aren't making any mistake and they aren't outdated and they aren't going anywhere.
Do you know why? Because together with radio and TV it is a promotion industry first and foremost.
It doesn't matter if you distribute your music cheaply or even for free if you don't get enough promotion.
Even if these artists don't earn much from selling albums, the amount of tickets and merchandise they sell thanks to the industry promoting them more than compensates for it.

 

[Emily]

Most people are generic retards, who can only enjoy something if the mass media says it is good. It has been proven many times, that the quality of artist is not really important to the masses, only mainstream approval.
"I enjoy it, because society tells me it is good"

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Most people are generic retards, who can only enjoy something if the mass media says it is good. It has been proven many times, that the quality of artist is not really important to the masses, only mainstream approval.
"I enjoy it, because society tells me it is good"

That's XSXJs. Kill them with fire.

 

[DalekFlay]

yet it sells 1/10th (if that) of multiplat releases that consoles do

Not that I want to debate with you, but when comparing download only releases like Super Meat Boy Steam actually outsells XBLA. It's the larger, disc-based console releases that outsell Steam. Two factors for that: 1) less graphics requirements, a lot of Steam users have old shit computers and mostly play indies and classics, 2) people can get those games on discs and prefer to do so.

 

[DalekFlay]

And most of them are at heavily discounted rates.

This is an example of this, developers avoid PCs, because console gamers pay good money for their games.

PC ports have been getting better and better, developers and publishers are courting the PC hard lately, games like Skyrim and Dishonored are outselling console versions when comparing one system to another. I don't see this ignoring you're speaking of. Shit, we even get ports of pure console filth like Devil May Cry now.

I agree we're probably still in third place overall in the AAA space, but come on, ignoring? Unless you mean not making PC exclusives that look like Crysis anymore, but that's more about budgets and targeting as many consumers as possible, not the PC's failings.

And "adapting to new business models" is a red herring that means "let us do whatever we want". Netflix at $8 a month is not a sustainable model.

In the PC space Steam and kickstarter are the adaptation, and look a ton of people are making money on PC again. It's not that hard, Hollywood can do it if they want to. Instead, as Hellraiser describes perfectly, they are putting their heads in the sand and pretending they can use corporate might to stop progress. It will work for a little while, not forever.

 

[J1M]

On PC an established game studio can make a profitable game with only a pitch video now. Zero risk. Zero distribution cost.

Compare and contrast with the console business model where you cut a cheque for $10 to Sony for every copy sold.

 

[Tagaziel]

It's like TP S.A., only worse.

Oh god.

TP S.A. is now French.

Vive l'Empereur!

 

[Hellraiser]

Record labels aren't making any mistake and they aren't outdated and they aren't going anywhere.
Do you know why? Because together with radio and TV it is a promotion industry first and foremost.
It doesn't matter if you distribute your music cheaply or even for free if you don't get enough promotion.
Even if these artists don't earn much from selling albums, the amount of tickets and merchandise they sell thanks to the industry promoting them more than compensates for it.

You're wrong Awor.

For one that's what marketing/ad agencies are for, the record industry was about recording and distribution with marketing as an added bonus (as it was inseparable from selling the records wholesale to stores). They took a band and gave them the means to be heard and bought. Recording equipment and copying all those records was expensive, then you had to arrange logistics to get the records everywhere. It was way beyond the scope of what new talent could do on their own even without the marketing. Entry costs were high so a record industry could arise, people who would handle the engineering, logistics, sales and promotion.

The arrangement made sense as musicians had no alternative and the labels had to get new talent from somewhere, so it was mutually beneficial. Even when they were screwing off musicians of any profits it made sense to cooperate with them as short of making your own label which required major cash you had no choice. Why give a record company the vast majority of the revenue from sales just for promotion? That's highway robbery! You can get better deals on the ad agency market as there is more competition there, you also have more control over how you do the promotion and they don't force you to record the way they want and how.

If you looked at the link I posted you would see that the decline in album sales is high while the digital sales are growing but not enough to compensate, nobody buys and entire album when they want just two or three songs off it at best. This was a known fact since the turn of the millennium. Per person living in Kwa (adjusted for inflation so the number are comparable) they earned 71 kwabucks in 2000, in 2009 it was just 26. If the average american bought 45 less dollars worth of music now than ten years ago something is wrong with the way the business is managed. It's either doing something wrong or it is declining into obscurity. Just like Kodak's photography business did, so what that they had cameras and even invented the digital camera? Their digital cameras failed in the face of Japanese competition, their business of selling various analogue photography accessories which they were making a killing off (Kodak film was freaking expensive) became obsolete and they had no backup plan nor did they prepare for lower revenue. They went into a spiral of insolvency. Boom, dead Kodak. This is what is facing the record labels if they don't learn (which they aren't).

The record industry focused on the symptom, piracy and not why people are pirating. CDs were overpriced, when movie DVDs were initially expensive luxury hi-tech media their price went down over the years, CDs were as expensive in the 90s as they were ten year later. The RIAA did jack because they thought they could make a killing off CDs forever, the people who contributed to the boom were mostly (pun not intended) baby boomers who kept buying their old albums they had on vinyls and cassettes in CD form. Now they think they're losing money because of pirates, that pirates are why Virgin no longer sells records and retail stores are going bust. When the truth is more complicated than pirates and harder to accept.

What the record industry is facing now is the ever present threat of substitution, their services are becoming redundant when in some cases they are no longer needed (funding recording/studio time) or other people do it better/cheaper (ad agencies, online distribution). Hell, they can no longer sell a whole album because there's one hit on it (a severe cut in their profits). At times like this any sane business restructures itself and shifts it business model. Or they go bust. It wasn't the RIAA that pioneered digital music distribution, it was apple and when they initially went to show the labels what they wanted to do the RIAA reps just shook their heads as they failed to grasp what apple is proposing.

This debacle has been going on and on in for over a decade and I have been following closely in the press during that time since I was a teen (the traditional press, another dying industry because of digital media). The facts are there is a decline of the record industry, this is agreed upon by a lot of analysts and has been agreed upon for a long time, quite frankly you have to be silly not to see it as the facts are broadly available. Unfortunately for them the CEOs of the labels keep ignoring the obvious. When they should be preparing for the paradigm shift they're trying to keep the status quo which is doomed to fail.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

There is no model, quality multimedia art costs money, no way about it. And yes PC games are a huge shadow of what they used to br because of BitTorrent, that's a fact. PC ports are only made because it is convenient to do so, but Bethesda makes their money from console gamers, and would love for PCs to go away so they don't have millions freeloading their products, and a chunk of that paying good money for their game. The Gamestop comparison is invalid, most used games are sold at costs very close to that of new games.

Kickstarter is not anywhere close to a solution, games are sold for too little, and it's not enough to allow anyone to make an income. Look at Banner Saga, they haven't used a dollar of the money earned for their daily expenses. And money for these campaigns only cover very short development cycles. When it will be released, 95% of players will have torrented the game too. And yes a chunk of this WOULD have otherwise contributed to the health of the studio.

Enjoy your free to play, Internet connection required games because covering your ears and singing lalalala new models lalalala while markets evaporate will make it so this is all you're going to get from non basement studios.

 

[evdk]

There is no model, quality multimedia art costs money

Why is there none produced in mainstream pop music then?

 

[AngryEddy]

HHR, you do know that consoles [360s in particular] are experiencing a huge surge in piracy right? Also, piracy is not the reason why a lot of these developers fail, it's usually because of bloated budgets, unneeded staff members, ENORMOUS advertising campaigns, bad marketing models etc. Game developers put most of their efforts in to consoles, because that's where the money is, not because that's where the piracy isn't. Seriously, quit making up your bullshit about game developers having 95% of their revenue stolen from pirates.

If an economic model doesnt work, you have to change, you cant just force your will on to the competitive market, with uncompetitive prices, and uncompetitive models [Day 1 DLC's, "Season Passes" etc]. The whole point of the market, is that the people making shit, are at our mercy, not vice versa. If they don't make quality entertainment and price it low enough for people to buy it, that's their fault, not the consumer/pirate.

 

[Zewp]

HHR, I honestly cannot believe someone smart enough to be on the Codex forums can be so narrow-minded. Jesus. Studios find making ports convenient yet they would love for the PC to go away? Are you on crack?

I say again, maybe if the gaming industry stopped trying to shit on pirates (read: They're actually shitting on their customers because pirates don't have to contend with their bullshit) more people would buy their games. Ubisoft saw a 90% drop in PC sales after the introduction of uPlay, and then they were too moronic to see the connection between the two events. Maybe if companies rather focused their time and energy on making their products more enticing, instead of less enticing, things would go better for them? It's easy to say 'oh but people just want to pirate and not pay' while ignoring the fact that your paying customers can't get into their single-player game because your servers are offline.

Regardless, you're always going to get tinfoil brigade members like HHR. Anyone remember when recordable cassettes were going to kill the music industry?

Maybe, just maybe, the major publishers need to look into why a game like Dead Space 3 needs to sell 5 million copies and make an estimated $300 million to be considered successful, while a game like The Witcher 2 can sell 2 million and be considered a success. The AAA gaming industry is built on business practices from the 90s and they refuse to change with the times.

When Gabe wanted to launch Steam in Russia, people advised him against it because Russia has one of the biggest piracy rates in the world. What happened? He went ahead and today Russia forms one of Steam's largest revenue streams in Europe. So much for pirates only pirating because they're thieves then.

Also, what The Brazilian Slaughter said; piracy is just as rampant on consoles than on PC. As is the second-hand market which has the same effect as someone pirating the game.

 

[evdk]

Piracy on consoles may be more rampant than it has been in the past, but the initial investment (modding the console) is more prohibitive than PC's "just find the genuine crack among the malware sites" thing. Second hand sales are much bigger problem on consoles than piracy.

 

[Zewp]

I don't know about you guys, but in my country since the PS1 days there have always been people who mod the console for you for a price. I know of 3 people in my town alone who are willing to do it for between R100 - R300, at your own risk, of course. There are even (illegitimate) online stores who will sell you a modded console as well as games for it.

Like this one, for example. They've been taken down countless times in the past 10 years but they always come back.

http://www.cybergames.co.za/

They should rather be taken down for their shitty website design, but still, the site exists and it's where one of my friends got his modded console.

 

[Hellraiser]

There is no model, quality multimedia art costs money, no way about it. And yes PC games are a huge shadow of what they used to br because of BitTorrent, that's a fact. PC ports are only made because it is convenient to do so, but Bethesda makes their money from console gamers, and would love for PCs to go away so they don't have millions freeloading their products, and a chunk of that paying good money for their game. The Gamestop comparison is invalid, most used games are sold at costs very close to that of new games.

Or it could be because budgets soared over the years while the market didn't grow enough to compensate. Ergo demand didn't change by much but revenue to break even from a title did. Do you honestly believe that the fringe minority that would buy a game if it didn't pirate it would be enough to fill that gap? Doubtful, basic economics say that demand rises as the price of a good or service decreases, that much has been known since Adam Smith, hell maybe even earlier. If the cost of pirating is a whopping 0 pure math tells you a lot of people will pirate but if they only had the option of buying it at 10, 20, 30 or more dollars they wouldn't buy it. This is basic fact that a lot of people conveniently ignore. If you can't get shit for free you probably won't get it period. Furthermore I would like to point out that even before the age of p2p pirating existed and affected sales and the industry had to deal with it (which it couldn't really).

Rather than tilt at windmills, because quite frankly short of draconian control of the Internet it cannot be stopped, publishers and developers alike should look at their business model and budgeting. Yes, I'm sure everyone wants to make killer games with cutting-edge production values. Guess what, that's impossible. It's like every schmuck with a wrench wanting to compete with ferrari or porsche. Hell, you don't see fiat or toyota trying to compete with ferrari or porsche. Do you know why is that? Because the market isn't big enough and the costs of entry are high, the risk is big. Meanwhile we have every big publisher hell-bent trying to make their own damn ferrari, like a delusional kid who thinks he can make it big just because he wants to make it big. This is why THQ bombed, it had profitable titles, DOW, COH, Darksider, Saints Row they all somehow got the green light for sequels. But it tried to make a ferrari called Homefront and it bombed, but not just it.

The market is saturated with big-budget titles, FPS in particular. Considering the profit margins they need to sell a ton to break even, but they can't. You can't expect every game to look like Crysis, have top-notch professional voice acting and god knows how much content. The markets will evaporate anyway, why do you think people are expecting a gaming crash? Because the doing so well console gaming is going to shit revenue wise and the publishers are slowly starting to panic. Blame that on pirates if you want, but that's just foolish and naive. Just like it is in blaming the pirates that PC games don't sell more. They don't because the market is not willing to buy enough to cover the costs at the given prices. Now I would gladly have a custom-tailor made game, TV series etc. released that would be perfect for me. But the reality is that unless my tastes coincide with what the market wants enough to make money off it, odds are I will never see it. Which is the case a lot of the time. So until development costs get lowered by a lot you have to accept the sad reality that you can't expect good high budget RPGs or other games, getting popamole decline instead as that is what will break even. A billion dollar proper Fallout game won't because gamers are mostly retards. Pointing fingers and even eliminating piracy won't change that.

 

[hoverdog]

Arguing with HHR!

 

[Hellraiser]

Arguing with HHR!

At the very least I'll have that saved somewhere for the future when the same tired flawed statements, about piracy being the sole reason why the industry is shit are made somewhere else.

Also I enjoy writing walls of text, it's a bad habit.