On Fallout vs Fallout2:
I loved Fallout, but Fallout2's shower of self-referencial idiocy put me off so much that I've yet to get more than a few hours into it. I'm more inclined to replay Fallout, since Fallout2 just won't shut up and let me play.
Perhaps Fallout is intended to be funny, but there's a difference between making jokes and being a joke. I can laugh with Fallout, but if anything I'd laugh
at Fallout2 [in fact I just want to beat the designers with a stick].
sheek said:
Too many so-called RPG fans want a completely open-ended/never-ending world and don't realize it's not possible (to do well), there always are limits to a sandbox.
I think it could be done well. It just might end up with more strategy than story. I like RPGs, but I also like strategy. I don't think the ideal sandbox RPG would end up as a great traditional RPG, but I do think it could be a great game.
The demand for impossible is why the Elderscrolls series was first created. Quality is sacrificed for quantity. Filler replaces creativity.
If you're implying for a moment that Bethesda is pushing back the boundaries of sandbox RPG gameplay, and providing an example of what is possible, you've lost your mind.
Bethesda don't have the ambition to do what's necessary to make a great sandbox RPG. I don't think they have the skill either (not that most companies would - it'd be a daunting task for anyone).
Bethesda is increasing the scope of action sandbox elements (e.g. physics). RPG sandbox elements would actually require considerable research. Rather than adding "filler", you'd have to come up with complex adaptive systems which remained interesting and challenging over the long term. These types of systems exist in some form in most strategy games (though they'd need to be very versatile to give things an organic feel).
It's difficult to find any moderately complex system in Morrowind / Oblivion which isn't broken. Scaling balance? Economic balance? Levelling balance? It's abundantly clear that Bethesda aren't going to do anything amazing with sandbox RPG elements. It can only be hoped that they tack on some traditional dialogue / good story etc., and make the rest of things a little less half-arsed.
Successfully making an open-ended RPG world would be extremely hard to do well. It's not impossible. It's certainly not the direction most RPGs should be heading, but it'd be great to see a few talented teams give it a shot.