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How is Fallout 2 different from Fallout 1?

Castanova

Prophet
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
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2,949
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The White Visitation
After watching the speed demo where they finish Fallout in 7 minutes (and assuming someone giftwraps a lead game designer position and puts it under my Christmas tree) I'm tempted to have any game I create feature at least one sub-10-minute solution.
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
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368
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Iasi, Romania?... Postcount: bigger then yours
POOPERSCOOPER said:
This is what I hate from people and is one of the reasons games like Fallout aren't made anymore. People want longer games but you can't make long games that also have the non-linearity of Fo1, it just a tremendous amount of work. I personally would like a game with Fallouts length but immense replayability. making a different character can let you do things that you weren't previousably able to do. LOL CHARISMA ISNT FOR MAGIC SPELLs

is it that impossible? I thought F2 made a pretty good ballance between quality and quantaty, I didn't had any complaints after finishing it.
 

galsiah

Erudite
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
1,613
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Montreal
On Fallout vs Fallout2:
I loved Fallout, but Fallout2's shower of self-referencial idiocy put me off so much that I've yet to get more than a few hours into it. I'm more inclined to replay Fallout, since Fallout2 just won't shut up and let me play.

Perhaps Fallout is intended to be funny, but there's a difference between making jokes and being a joke. I can laugh with Fallout, but if anything I'd laugh at Fallout2 [in fact I just want to beat the designers with a stick].


sheek said:
Too many so-called RPG fans want a completely open-ended/never-ending world and don't realize it's not possible (to do well), there always are limits to a sandbox.
I think it could be done well. It just might end up with more strategy than story. I like RPGs, but I also like strategy. I don't think the ideal sandbox RPG would end up as a great traditional RPG, but I do think it could be a great game.
The demand for impossible is why the Elderscrolls series was first created. Quality is sacrificed for quantity. Filler replaces creativity.
If you're implying for a moment that Bethesda is pushing back the boundaries of sandbox RPG gameplay, and providing an example of what is possible, you've lost your mind.
Bethesda don't have the ambition to do what's necessary to make a great sandbox RPG. I don't think they have the skill either (not that most companies would - it'd be a daunting task for anyone).

Bethesda is increasing the scope of action sandbox elements (e.g. physics). RPG sandbox elements would actually require considerable research. Rather than adding "filler", you'd have to come up with complex adaptive systems which remained interesting and challenging over the long term. These types of systems exist in some form in most strategy games (though they'd need to be very versatile to give things an organic feel).

It's difficult to find any moderately complex system in Morrowind / Oblivion which isn't broken. Scaling balance? Economic balance? Levelling balance? It's abundantly clear that Bethesda aren't going to do anything amazing with sandbox RPG elements. It can only be hoped that they tack on some traditional dialogue / good story etc., and make the rest of things a little less half-arsed.

Successfully making an open-ended RPG world would be extremely hard to do well. It's not impossible. It's certainly not the direction most RPGs should be heading, but it'd be great to see a few talented teams give it a shot.
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
The worst part of Fallout 2 was the Enclave. "OMG all you humans are mutants, and we'll kill you all. Die motherfuckers!!" They were so unreasonable, they were completly moronic.
In the Enclave building, you can go to some guy, and tell him "U R RONG". Then he suddenly realizes the EVIL of his ways, and releases some gas into the air. The gas kills all the unarmored people, except the president and some more. It kills exactly the people you have no fucking reason to want killed.
You can talk to the President and tell him you are his enemy and want to defeat him. And he does nothing about it. What the fuck?! He's unarmored, in a room, with a power armored guy who wants to kill him.
And it's impossible to finish it without combat. You can kill Frank Horrigan yourself, if you're an awesome fighter, or you can kill the president and all the guards, if you're a great fighter. No diplomatic way. Or you can get annoyed by the fucktardedness, and use the Super Stimpack exploit. Which for some reason is often considered a legitimate way to kill the President, which shows F2's awesomeness.
 

Bar Tec

Novice
Joined
Jul 3, 2006
Messages
49
Location
Polonia
galsiah said:
Perhaps Fallout is intended to be funny, but there's a difference between making jokes and being a joke.

Someone here pointed out that F2 looks somewhat like a parody of F1 and that's very true. F2 is a typical example of "sequel curse" - it feels like hypothetical Ultima game in which Avatar realizes that Guardian is a cool guy, Lord British is a pathetic moron, and they join their force to stop the conspiracy of Nystul and freemasonry to... never mind :roll:
 

LlamaGod

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
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Yes
Fallout's 'humor' was a different brand, it was more in a irony and dark humor sort of way (and not in a gunzz and sex sort of way, more like a HEY, THE FUTURE SUCKS way).

Fallout 2 was full of stupid NERD JOKEZ and 'totally cool' references because LOL HAVING A LINE FROM A MOVIE IN SOMETHING BESIDES THE MOVIE IS HILARIOUS

and it just didnt end in Fallout 2. Instead of someone actually thinking for their reference or joke, they just threw it in.

I wouldn't be surprised if potential dialog lines for characters were killed because they'd rather fill up the character with stupid shit references. Instead of going 'hmm, what are all possible dialogs here.' they think of the required dialogs and then some stupid ass references to tack on.
 

Cycloptis

Scholar
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
127
Location
Dead
It's rather difficult to make a post that doesn't seem redundant at this point. Although, during my playthrough of Fallout 2, there does seem to be some rather poor design in spots here and there. The biggest difference is the intelligence of the humour.

Fallout was like American Splendor...nothing that just comes up and slaps you. It's much more careful and subtle.

Fallout 2 is more like the new Simpsons. Yeah it garners a smile here and there, but after a while it just grates on you.

Well, okay...nothing warrants being compared to Fox TV's bitch, but the added emphasis was necessary to get the point across.
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
Fallout 1 wasn't all about humor. There were jokes here and there, but the atmosphere was anything but funny. The opening movie included some jokes, but overall it was sad and desolating.
 

kingcomrade

Kingcomrade
Edgy
Joined
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Cognitive Elite HQ
The worst part of Fallout 2 was the Enclave.
I'd have to argue with you there. There's quite a bit of things worse than the Enclave, though it was, of course, pretty dumb, the worst part being the "OMG the Vaults were all a sekrit conspiracy experiment just 4 fun but now we have to kill everyone because apparently nobody put much thought into the super sekrit conspiracy."

If you ignore the little things like the Yakuza Ninjas with Wakizashi samurai swords in New Reno, the worst bit was the Tribals and especially the Temple of Trials. Hi, my father was John the Electrical Engineer exiled from Vault 13, my name is Durrr'Thuk and I believe in magical spirits of the ancestors and wear bones through my nose. I live in a tent made from animal skins but I helped build/renovate a giant Temple of Trials just in case we have a Chosan Wun to test some time in the future. I'm an ignorant, superstituous barbarian but since my Intelligence score is 6 I can make witty comments that are totally out of character from someone of my background. Also, Killer Bunny! Holy Hand Grenade! K'nnnnn-ig-its! You don't vote for kings! It's just a flesh wound! The animator had a sudden fatal heart attack! There was much rejoicing! Holy Hand Grenade! I fart in your general direction! None shall pass! Of course it's a good idea! Holy Hand Grenade! NI!!
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
I wouldn't consider the Vault Conspiracy a part of the Enclave. I think it's the worst part of the Fallout setting, since it was thought out since Fallout 1.
I didn't remember it, but yeah, its worse than the Enclave. Because the Enclave is gone, at least, but the conspiracy will be present in all future Fallout games.
 

sheek

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
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8,659
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Cydonia
kingcomrade said:
the worst bit was the Tribals and especially the Temple of Trials. Hi, my father was John the Electrical Engineer exiled from Vault 13, my name is Durrr'Thuk and I believe in magical spirits of the ancestors and wear bones through my nose. I live in a tent made from animal skins but I helped build/renovate a giant Temple of Trials just in case we have a Chosan Wun to test some time in the future. I'm an ignorant, superstituous barbarian but since my Intelligence score is 6 I can make witty comments that are totally out of character from someone of my background.

Exactly. This is a role-playing game. How are you supposed to role-play the main character? You can't. Either they should have stuck with the barbarian/tribal background through the whole game or got rid of it.
 

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