Bioshock Infinite - the $200 million 6 hour literally on rails interactive movie with guns thread

[abija]

I stopped questioning anything involving Elizabeth once she had a cutscene crying moment about me killing armed police shooting at us, yet in the very next area I shot up a bar full of unarmed civilians while she never skipped a beat talking about her life story.

This. If they'd cut all the emotional engagement scenes the game would be better.

Wouldn't people notice that the gigantic statue that towers over the entire city has now been completely destroyed? You'd think that would sort of interrupt your quiet day at the beach

They will a bit later and the scene will be so dumb you'll wish they didn't.

Just wondering. I'm only an hour into the game and I can't wait to see things get better from here. Will it be 20 plot holes every scene? 30?

It gets better in the way that there are less scenes and more shooting. It's also set up in such a way that there are no plot holes, just "deeper meanings". Any retarded explanation you can come up for something, it would fit right in.

 

[Commander Xbox]

I just watched a couple of videos from a Walkthrough to see what the fuss is all about and already I'm confused.

Apparently, Booker goes to Columbia to find a girl and bring her to the surface to repay a debt. Why not just stay in Columbia and screw his debtors? Granted, I don't what and how much he owes exactly, but given how hard it seems to reach Columbia, I'd wager he'd be pretty safe up there, since Columbia probably wouldn't recognize any legal claims from some dude coming to collect. Also, they'd first have to find him, which seems pretty hard to do in such a big city.
How would anyone even know he broke the deal? Wouldn't they just assume he failed and possibly died if he didn't come back? Whoever sent him probably knows who Elizabeth is and how important she is.

The transition from meandering around to the actual gameplay is also pretty damn jarring. One minute you're walking around, playing games on a fair and the next you're ripping peoples heads off with your execution moves like a fucking savage. You then proceed to slaughter your way through dozens of police officers in various ways.
That seems a little extreme just to repay a debt. Booker can obviously handle himself, couldn't he have just kill his debtor(s) instead of fighting a war against an entire city? Or just stay in Columbia. I bet he could handle any collectors coming for him if it came to blows.

Reading through the thread though, I've picked up something about the debt not being the real reason he's there. Apparently something about a guilt trip involving his daughter or something?
Can someone sum up the story for me? I don't think I want to watch however many more hours of this mess.

try actually playing the game. fucking retard

 

[Jaesun]

How has this been selling? Have 2K stated any numbers?

 

[toro]

How has this been selling? Have 2K stated any numbers?

They had to hire additional personnel in order to satisfy the demand.

 

[Blaine]

Oh yes, it's selling like hotcakes.

Which is really quite understandable, since even console kiddies are starved of comparatively decent single-player shooters, let alone ones that break the mold with stuff like an interesting and exotic setting, tonic powers, and so on. Most shooters are Cowwadoody, Battulfeewd, or other pissbloom modern "military"-alikes that would like to be Cowwadoody or Battulfeewd.

If you're lying on a tiny islet of cow manure that's holding you up and out of a lake of liquid human feces, you're going to absolutely love that cow shit with all your heart.

 

[DakaSha]

Yes but what is the skill cap

 

[Blaine]

Can't say, but people who own gaming PCs yet play inferior made-for-console kiddie shooters anyway sure are amusing, especially when .

 

[Hoaxmetal]

Looks like Reddit is definitely still a shithole. Might as well read "No talking about Infinite BS until it has sold all it could".

Obviously you don't know how it works. There is no single "Reddit" thing, it's thousands of different "forums" that have different rules/moderators. I don't know what truegaming is but it's not the subreddit "gaming" that everyone joins when making an account. Just saying that it depends on subreddit per subreddit basis, there's a lot of good stuff there too. Of course the default subreddits are mostly shit.

Anyway, that forbes guy, holy shit.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...ck-infinite-you-might-have-missed-completely/
Thinks that game devs being lazy and only renaning same gameplay concepts from previous games is actually 2deep4you connection and masterful plot.
Infinite universes is an interesting idea but it simply doesn't work as a plot device.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Looks like Reddit is definitely still a shithole. Might as well read "No talking about Infinite BS until it has sold all it could".

reddit is literally an admin-endorsed child porn ring I do not need to know their opinions on the latest boring commercial entertainment product to confirm that it is a shithole

 

[Average Manatee]

Yep, I expect it will sell well. Not Skyrim or CoD level, but probably a comfortably high 5+ million.

Obviously you don't know how it works. There is no single "Reddit" thing, it's thousands of different "forums" that have different rules/moderators. I don't know what truegaming is but it's not the subreddit "gaming" that everyone joins when making an account. Just saying that it depends on subreddit per subreddit basis, there's a lot of good stuff there too. Of course the default subreddits are mostly shit.

No, it's shit. If I tell you BSN is shit are you going to defend it by saying that there are different sections of BSN that are slightly less shitty?

 

[Hoaxmetal]

Heh, whatever. Keep it edgy, bro.

 

[chestburster]

I hate the game being set in 1912. First the quantum mechanics couldn't have advanced so much in the 1800s to create dimension hopping and floating city in the first place.

Also Levine played the racial/social segregation issues with a 21st century perspective. In 1912, isn't it sort of normal to discriminate against the Chinks, the Injuns or the Niggers? In real history, the U.S. had no problem invading Peking to crack down the Boxer Rebellion but in the game, U.S. disavowed Columbia because it bombarded those Chinks for holding U.S. hostages? Why?

The 1912 setting is nothing but a contrived way to make the game appear "cool." I'd be much happier if the game is set in the future, with future rednecks running amok with future quantum technology.

 

[Diablo169]

I hate the game being set in 1912. First the quantum mechanics couldn't have advanced so much in the 1800s to create dimension hopping and floating city in the first place.

Also Levine played the racial/social segregation issues with a 21st century perspective. In 1912, isn't it sort of normal to discriminate against the Chinks, the Injuns or the Niggers? In real history, the U.S. had no problem invading Peking to crack down the Boxer Rebellion but in the game, U.S. disavowed Columbia because it bombarded those Chinks for holding U.S. hostages? Why?

The 1912 setting is nothing but a contrived way to make the game appear "cool." I'd be much happier if the game is set in the future, with future rednecks running amok with future quantum technology.

Most of this is hand-waved because of the infinite realities. They see the technology in the other worlds and steal the ideas and concepts.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Hmm that woman that's following you around or something doesn't look like a creepy woman with the head of a 10 year old in the promo images.

 

[Gelbvieh]

I hate the game being set in 1912. First the quantum mechanics couldn't have advanced so much in the 1800s to create dimension hopping and floating city in the first place.

Also Levine played the racial/social segregation issues with a 21st century perspective. In 1912, isn't it sort of normal to discriminate against the Chinks, the Injuns or the Niggers? In real history, the U.S. had no problem invading Peking to crack down the Boxer Rebellion but in the game, U.S. disavowed Columbia because it bombarded those Chinks for holding U.S. hostages? Why?

The 1912 setting is nothing but a contrived way to make the game appear "cool." I'd be much happier if the game is set in the future, with future rednecks running amok with future quantum technology.

I know man, I know.

 

[evdk]

Most of this is hand-waved because of the infinite realities. They see the technology in the other worlds and steal the ideas and concepts.

Fucking Etherites, man.

 

[chestburster]

Most of this is hand-waved because of the infinite realities. They see the technology in the other worlds and steal the ideas and concepts.

That's why the "multiverse" plot device is the ultimate deus ex machima. I fucking hate it when writers resort to multiverse theory when they don't know how to properly tie their mysteries together, c.f. Lost.

This also makes the game's message completely irrelevant. --If there are indeed infinite realities, I'm sure there is one "parallel universe" in which Niggers get skinned alive in public for fun in the 21st century, or one in which Booker/Comstock is a tyrant that rapes a thousand virgins everyday. Why would it matter anyway? No matter what Booker does in the storyline, in an infinite amount of multiverses, all kinds of weird shit are happening.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

I gotta say, my theory on some of the ending nonsense is still my favorite. In the others I've read they either don't work as well with what was actually shown in the game, or they take what was shown in the game and veer off into "And this is Ken Levine's take on all other video games, life, the universe, and everything" territory.

Tell you one thing that does kinda piss me off and didn't have a terribly satisfying answer (Ending spoilers again obviously):

Spoiler

Why the fuck ZEPPELINS WITH MORTARS are a threat to 1980s America. I mean sure, if they somehow drop out of the sky without being detected they could blast the shit out of New York and cause a lot of deaths, but that would basically be it. The game sort of implies that Elizabeth would conquer/assimilate/destroy the world and then start dimension hopping and destroy others (Via an audio log), so it's not just Booker/Elizabeth feeling terrible about blowing the shit out of New York before they get slapped down. They're trying to stop some supposed catastrophic world threatening thing. Columbia has advanced tech for the time of 1912, but it's still shown as the same steampunk-ish future tech in 1980s when they attack New York. The one new addition being the funky helmet guys and the dimension slave things. Even with that GLORIOUS AMERICA isn't going to give a fuck. I mean shit, just our population's normal state of armament could probably handle Columbia easily. Flying city with ghost men be damned. Bullets still kill them when Booker's fighting them. Not even counting National Guard and certainly not counting full military.

The way to solve this whole thing would be simply have Elizabeth and Booker trying to stop the attack on New York and leave it at that. The story would still completely work (From that aspect) and they'd be preventing enough deaths that it would be good motivation and all that jazz.
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc...9382033B90E4A104F47A44C55B96BDE695/[/spoiler]

 

[aris]

Spoiler

Why the fuck ZEPPELINS WITH MORTARS are a threat to 1980s America.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Yeah, I just thought about that when replaying the game today. It makes zero sense, they could easily be shot down by F-22s.

 

[Diablo169]

I gotta say, my theory on some of the ending nonsense is still my favorite. In the others I've read they either don't work as well with what was actually shown in the game, or they take what was shown in the game and veer off into "And this is Ken Levine's take on all other video games, life, the universe, and everything" territory.

Tell you one thing that does kinda piss me off and didn't have a terribly satisfying answer (Ending spoilers again obviously):

Spoiler

Why the fuck ZEPPELINS WITH MORTARS are a threat to 1980s America. I mean sure, if they somehow drop out of the sky without being detected they could blast the shit out of New York and cause a lot of deaths, but that would basically be it. The game sort of implies that Elizabeth would conquer/assimilate/destroy the world and then start dimension hopping and destroy others (Via an audio log), so it's not just Booker/Elizabeth feeling terrible about blowing the shit out of New York before they get slapped down. They're trying to stop some supposed catastrophic world threatening thing. Columbia has advanced tech for the time of 1912, but it's still shown as the same steampunk-ish future tech in 1980s when they attack New York. The one new addition being the funky helmet guys and the dimension slave things. Even with that GLORIOUS AMERICA isn't going to give a fuck. I mean shit, just our population's normal state of armament could probably handle Columbia easily. Flying city with ghost men be damned. Bullets still kill them when Booker's fighting them. Not even counting National Guard and certainly not counting full military.

The way to solve this whole thing would be simply have Elizabeth and Booker trying to stop the attack on New York and leave it at that. The story would still completely work (From that aspect) and they'd be preventing enough deaths that it would be good motivation and all that jazz.
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc...9382033B90E4A104F47A44C55B96BDE695/[/spoiler]

Spoiler

Your forgetting the insane magical powers the vigor's gives them, combined with the various robots and shit. Hell he could even have unleashed Songbird on their asses. We don't know.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Spoiler

Even with vigors and songbird, we're talking one city against GLORIOUS AMERICA and then later the world. They even outright tell you that by the time you see the apocalyptic 1980s attack, Elizabeth has nothing to do with it. She's played her part and Columbia becomes its own thing, so it's not like she's using dimensional fuckery to brainwash the non-Columbian people or anything. It's like the retarded space jihad in Dune, only executed even worse. And while I'm bitching about Dune, it didn't make a hell of a lot of sense there either. I can roll with fremen being better than sardaukar on Dune itself, but being better than sardaukar on other worlds? My ass. MY ASS.

At least in the evil ending of Bioshock 1 they show your splicers jacking a nuclear submarine, so you can vaguely give them the "And then you conquered the world" thing since you're backed up with nukes.

 

[HanoverF]

Spoiler

Keep in mind we see the remains of Comstock House following conqueror Elizabeth's attack, and it didn't exactly escape unharmed. Plus where did it say she had no part in the attack?

Anyway I think you're over-analyzing things, the emperor has no clothes, the plot has more holes than the game has glowing reviews.

 

[chestburster]

Spoiler

Why the fuck ZEPPELINS WITH MORTARS are a threat to 1980s America. http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc...9382033B90E4A104F47A44C55B96BDE695/[/spoiler]

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc...9382033B90E4A104F47A44C55B96BDE695/[/spoiler]

I hate the multiverse theory of the game but this one can at least be explained without the multiverse crap:

Spoiler

Because they're not "ZEPPELINS WITH MORTARS." From the old age of Elizabeth, it's probably been 50 years after the 1912 time point, meaning that the city's technology has advanced another 50 years from the insane "quantum physics magic" in the 1912s. Those may appear to look like zeppelins, but they may actually be attack drones with "quantum entanglement non-locality string wave bombs" or some other shit, just with steam-punk aesthetics.

I believe this game's multiverse crap and various plot holes are the symptom of a last-minute overhaul of the game.

In the game's opening scene:

Spoiler

The Lutece twins said the whole thing is a "thought experiment." In physics, a thought experiment is an experiment conducted in a person's mind. The whole floating city thing almost seems like a large thought experiment in someone's head, trying to play out how an ultra-American Exceptionism society with super advanced technology will play out. Also, the early dialogues of the Lutece twins focus heavily on Booker's agency, i.e. free will (the "heads or tail" part, the "but he doesn't row" part, the "don't choose 77" part, etc.). I thought the plot is hinting that Booker is introduced to a pre-determined thought experiment/simulation as an agent of free will. And this whole "tear" thing is simply an NPC character (Elizabeth) of the simulation/thought experiment breaking the Fourth Wall.

But in the end, it's just the plain-old multiverse cliche, which has nothing to do with free will. And a large part of the Lutece twins' early dialogues become meaningless and irrelevant. --Why ask Booker to pick head or tail? Why ask Elizabeth to choose between the two necklaces and be surprised that she chooses one over the other?

 

[aris]

The "last minute overhaul" is just a vague theory based on the difference of the gameplay trailers in 2011 and the game now posted by a guy on reddit.

 

[chestburster]

The "last minute overhaul" is just a vague theory based on the difference of the gameplay trailers in 2011 and the game now posted by a guy on reddit.

I remember even Levine himself said in interviews that they overhauled Comstock and the portrait of religion in general in the game.

I also don't think they planned Comstock to be another Booker when they started making the game: Comstock started as a younger man in early trailers. You'd think Booker would recognize him instantly when he sees himself in that giant poster in the early gameplay trailer. --Comstock being Booker is a fundamental plot point in the finished game, without which the whole plot won't even exist. This is why I feel Levine changed the whole storyline in late development stage.