Stick a fork in PC gaming - it's done

[Zomg]

Printing has come so far in the past five years that you could probably do nearly on demand manuals these days very cheaply. Look on the internet for a business card printer - they *way* undercut corporate printing franchises like Kinko's (which is still chiseling out-of-touch or inexperienced people at the old prices), using semi-professional ~$15,000 printers, and they do all the drafting with cheap or pirated software on normal PCs.

Just have an option to tack on a manual to a direct download game for a few bucks and get it 3-day mailed (in the US, anyway). I recall that's how One Must Fall 2097 worked, direct download with a manual in the mail.

 

[Ryuken]

its almost the opposite here in germany, we have big electronic stores here like "media markt" and "saturn" they have most of the pc games on the market and the pc games section is waaay bigger then the console one its alömost four times as big as the console section here in my local media markt, we have stores here that only sell pc games and you can also rent them at videostores, pc games are a big player here and most people like complicated strategy games, simulations and rpgs and if a new gothic comes out its every time on number one of the media charts for months with no end.

Same here in Belgium, I never noticed anything of smaller retail space for PC titles and Media Markt idd really puts a big emphasis on PC. There are a hell of a lot more budget versions now though, without printed manuals sadly (reading online manuals sucks, printing it meself is too much effort). Budget or heavily priced down titles is what I mostly buy nowadays. There's not always a need to purchase as quickly as possible, patience is a virtue.

I think I can honestly say that I am looking forward to several PC titles (Supreme Commander, The Witcher, Crysis, BF2142...), despite there being so much other crap around (which can be found on any platform of course). And yeah, I'll probably need to upgrade next year to be to able to just run some of those... like I always did. If you're a bit smart and not a graphics whore you'll get around with a PC for three-four years or so, you can even make targeted upgrades once in a while. Every platform has glitches but I haven't bought a console since the Megadrive for a reason; console games simple don't catch my interest.

Ah well, things might all change when Vista launches, for the worse prolly, knowing Microsoft.

 

[Spazmo]

Hey, I love manuals too--I treasure the old Blizzard manuals with all that backstory, not to mention the super stylish Fallout manuals (well, the FO1 manual was cooler, but anyways). But that's really a moot point because there hasn't been a cool manual in years. The manuals you get with games now are just pamphlets with one page of install instructions, two pages of troubleshooting and five pages of credits. More complicated games get a quick reference card. Why do I want to pay $10-20 more than the retail price for this again? I think ingame documentation is the way to go--think ToEE or Jeff Vogel's games, which both have extensive documentation easily accessible, with ToEE's being especially nice because it's all hyperlinked up.

As for boxes, well, I too stack up all my game boxes on the top of my bookshelf, but again, given the choice, I wouldn't pay $10-20 more for six sides of cardboard plastered with doctored screenshots and marketing copy.

 

[Zomg]

I'm looking at my Space Rangers 2 manual, which is a pretty slick looking piece of work. It has a photographic-quality glossy cover on good cardstock, with a perforated edge tear-off quick reference card to boot. The interior is black and white on high bond glossy paper, with many B&W screenshots, and runs about 100 pages with glue binding. It could easily be a Golden-Age-of-Manuals Microprose joint at first glance. Of course, all of the information in it blows and is in fugly Space Rangers ESL Russglish diction, but the production values are AAA all the way.

 

[ad hominem]

Hype hype hype, cell has 6 cores but that doesn't nescisarily mean that it's faster than what's out there today.

The 360 is a nice piece of kit yeah...but you get what you pay for, VERY few games have 2xAA , very few games have AF, but most of the games i've played on it have framerate problems. Graphically every game on it could prolly be done on a pc...and done better.

Cell has 8 cores, but the ones shipping with the PS3 will have one disabled. From what I understand, all xbox games are required to run with 4xAA...I think AF is optional, though.

Historically, consoles are about at the graphics level of really expensive computers when they first arrive, and by the end of their life they have been vastly outstripped. These might be a little behind this generation (particularly the Wii), but you'd still have to put together a several thousand dollar computer to beat the reported specs of the PS3 at this point.

Oh, and I'm just gonna vote my support for cool manuals, boxes, and swag. I miss them so...

 

[Cycloptis]

Well, I'm definitely intruigued by digital distribution, as long as it means a cheaper game in the end. Here in Canada, new PC games are usually about $59.99. I bought Half-Life 2 Silver when it came out for the same price except it also came with Day of Defeat Source when compared with the retail edition. Not to mention every other Valve/Half-Life game/popular mod ever made.

And, if you're so paranoid about having a physical piece of kit, back-ups are the way to go. As long as it's not a Steam-like service, then those back-ups will be a legitimately useful tool. Manuals these days are mostly negligible, especially with the onset of smaller boxes. A .PDF would be nice to have, though.

As for a dying PC gaming, I highly disagree. I'm looking forward to BioShock, Dark Messiah of Might & Magic, Alan Wake, Gothic 3, Neverwinter Nights II, Not the Time for Dragons, Drakensang, Battle Lord, Afterfall, The Broken Hourglass, Hellgate, Broken Sword 4, Sam & Max Season One, A Vampyre Story, Juniper Crescent, Cassius Pearl, Aquarica, and Warren Spector's new project, in addition to some of those lovely first-person shooters that the Codex hates.

 

[mytgroo]

Are we going to buy our games from Russia, Eastern Europe Et

Are we going to buy our games from Russia or Eastern Europe, or Turkey where $20.00 for a game goes a lot farther for the maker of the game than in the US, Australia, or the UK. Space Rangers 2 is pretty good from what I heard, Mount and Blade comes from Turkey, Styrateg is from Czechoslavakia, is CRPG.RU going to translate their site so we can get old school RPGs. Sounds kind of nuts to me. But yay, $20 goes a lot further in the Philippines -- Anito Defend A Land Enraged than in the U.S. They have no problem with download distribution.

 

[Jim Kata]

From the last figures I saw (a few months old) WoW outsold the 360, OMG CONSOLES R DED LOLZ.

MMOs are not a game you can purchase, but a product. Totally different category.

 

[Jim Kata]

In John Smedley (of EQII fame) 's blog he addresses two points made above:

1. PC Gaming is still strong

and

2. PS3 is a graphics suck

The first one basically says the PC isnt dead..its just going digital. Which is good to hear, but some major work needs to be done on changing people's perceptions. If developers believe the hype and go with what they think the money is in consoles, thats where they will go.

The second link is more exciting and distressing. He trades soil erosion for reactive water (OMGZ the water has actual WAVEZ!!) and talks about 5 or 6 separate chips in the PS3 for different crap. No wonder its costing $9000.

EDIT: Link fixed

It's pretty much dead already. It is not an issue of there being some great games not on the shelf. There just are no great games to PUT on the shelf.

 

[Sovard]

Well, I guess you ladies haven't heard "the news".

Microsoft, having conquered the console market (snigger), is full throttle on giving PC games their share of the store.

They're going to have full kiosks with a PC to play demos, really obnoxious GAMES FOR WINDOWS banners around, and an easier time of checking if a computer meets minimum requirements (uploaded reqs into a program, program knows what you have, tells you what you can play). Basically they'll be providing a sanctuary for the endangered PC game shelf space. They're also assuring us poor PC retards that all of those FUCKING AWESOME console games will be ported, so we don't miss out.

Although I'm cynical about the whole thing (could ya tell?), I think it'll do good. There are still many things that can only be done for the PC (RTS), and things that are just flat out better on the PC (FPS, RPG, MMO).

 

[Jabbapop]

I'm looking at my Space Rangers 2 manual, which is a pretty slick looking piece of work. It has a photographic-quality glossy cover on good cardstock, with a perforated edge tear-off quick reference card to boot. The interior is black and white on high bond glossy paper, with many B&W screenshots, and runs about 100 pages with glue binding. It could easily be a Golden-Age-of-Manuals Microprose joint at first glance. Of course, all of the information in it blows and is in fugly Space Rangers ESL Russglish diction, but the production values are AAA all the way.

mine is starting to fall apart near the front at that glue binding. i think it's because of that tear off quick reference card which i refuse to tear off.

 

[Bradylama]

They're also assuring us poor PC retards that all of those FUCKING AWESOME console games will be ported, so we don't miss out.

If this turns out to be true, it'll be pretty damn awesome. I was considering living a life where I never got to play Dead Rising.

 

[Castanova]

If the consoles came with a wireless keyboard and mouse, there would be virtually no reason to play mainstream releases on the PC. Obviously the indie and shareware markets will always serve the PC, by necessity. But with the ever growing demand for graphics technology, pretty soon there won't be any more casual/mass-market PC gamers whose computers can play the latest games.

I'm definitely pro-PC. But with compatibility/performance concerns (it took me 2 hours just to get Prey to run), I'd be perfectly willing to do all my gaming on the consoles assuming they put a keyboard and mouse on there. The user interface concerns go away with the keyboard/mouse and, with HD televisions, there's no need to have GIANT fonts and pre-school sentence constructions.

It's going in that direction anyway what with the whole XBOX Live/social network business model for next-gen online components.

 

[Bradylama]

If the consoles came with a wireless keyboard and mouse, there would be virtually no reason to play mainstream releases on the PC.

That's rediculous. People want to play their consoles from the comfort of their couch or bed. Ever tried to hold a keyboard in your lap? Not only that, but assuming that you're gaming at the desk on a console, then switching to a PC for functionality, then why wouldn't you just buy a gaming PC?

They're two entirely different experiences that don't translate into each other, at all.

 

[HanoverF]

These days people can type 60 words a minute on tiny cellular phone numberpads, I'm sure if someone were to make something slightly bigger for consoles it wouldn't affect comfort one whit.

 

[Castanova]

They're two entirely different experiences that don't translate into each other, at all.

Tunnel vision much? How about connecting your console to your computer monitor? Ever heard of a coffee table? How about a mousepad with a plastic support?

 

[Araanor]

Bandwidth costs? Bah. More companies could stand to embrace Bittorrent. Unlike a few static servers, Bittorrent scales with an increasing number of peers.

Retail gaming going to hell is fine with me. Dreadfully inefficient distribution model for digital data.

 

[Bradylama]

Even if keyboard and mice were viable as input devices for consoles while maintaing what people expect from a "console experience", the key problem is whether or not they'd be adopted by the console market. Do you really think people are going to play games with keyboards and mice when they've been used to playing the same games with gamepads for decades? This isn't like the lightgun or the eyetoy, either (both of which are highly gimicky devices), people won't be adopting it anytime soon because it's something that they're not familiar with, and something that, on a console only serves a very limited functionality. (i.e., gaming)

Keyboards aren't designed for games to be played with them, it's the other way around. What's the point in using a keyboard when the gamepad already has x-y axis movement?

There was a reason the Dreamcast keyboard didn't have much functionality beyond Typing of the Dead, and that's because it doesn't want to be adopted by either console developers, or the market.

 

[Castanova]

Even if keyboard and mice were viable as input devices for consoles while maintaing what people expect from a "console experience", the key problem is whether or not they'd be adopted by the console market.

Remind me who said that every single game must be designed for use with a keyboard and mouse? Or that the normal gamepad would be dismissed? The fact remains that many genres of gaming almost need a keyboard/mouse. People in this thread have already listed them.

There was a reason the Dreamcast keyboard didn't have much functionality beyond Typing of the Dead, and that's because it doesn't want to be adopted by either console developers, or the market.

Last time I checked the Dreamcast itself was not "adopted by either console developers, or the market." Even if this argument of yours wasn't a-- well, I don't want to use the word but let's say it has something to do with an anthropomorphic bundling of straws-- it still ignores the fact that the Dreamcast was out in the late 90s... when PC gaming was faring much better than it is now.

 

[Bradylama]

Remind me who said that every single game must be designed for use with a keyboard and mouse?

The guys who develop "mainstream titles." A keyboard and mouse would be a gimick for consoles, because it's not universal like the gamepad.

Battle for Middle-Earth, by the way, has already received a lot of praise from Xbox reviewers and players, using the Xbox gamepad. FFXI gamers have been playing an MMO on the console for ages, and WOW and several other MMO projects intend to release Xbox360 versions of themselves.

You've already practically admitted that the Keyboard and mouse won't be used for everything. Then if that's the case, why would anybody other than enthusiasts want to buy an extra peripheral for limited support?

Last time I checked the Dreamcast itself was not "adopted by either console developers, or the market." Even if this argument of yours wasn't a-- well, I don't want to use the word but let's say it has something to do with an anthropomorphic bundling of straws-- it still ignores the fact that the Dreamcast was out in the late 90s... when PC gaming was faring much better than it is now.

The success of the Dreamcast aside, explain to me then, why keyboards and mice haven't received any adoption in the console market despite their availability for decades?

And don't give me that wireless crap again, console gamers aren't exactly sticklers when it comes to wired input devices.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Hype hype hype, cell has 6 cores but that doesn't nescisarily mean that it's faster than what's out there today.

The 360 is a nice piece of kit yeah...but you get what you pay for, VERY few games have 2xAA , very few games have AF, but most of the games i've played on it have framerate problems. Graphically every game on it could prolly be done on a pc...and done better.

Cell has 8 cores, but the ones shipping with the PS3 will have one disabled. From what I understand, all xbox games are required to run with 4xAA...I think AF is optional, though.

Most don't...very few of my games have any sort of AA...and the one that do, have framerate troubles.

 

[Castanova]

@ Bradylama

I never said that the current generation of consoles should release keyboard and mouse add-ons right now and support them. I'm talking about the future of consoles. Obviously consoles are moving in the direction of "entertainment PCs." You can download, socialize, compete in multiplayer. You can play CDs, DVDs.

Sooner or later, Microsoft is going to want to take Xbox Live further and connect MSN Messenger in there or something. Sure, people play MMOs and RTS games on the consoles now, but who gives a crap? Before the 20th century, people rode horses everywhere. Does that make riding a horse optimal? Do you ride a horse to the store now?

And I'll wager that almost every single console owner has a mouse and keyboard as well. Whats to say that the XBox 4-Play won't have some 2010-era wireless technology that lets you share the keyboard between systems?

That being said, maybe Nintendo will unzip their pants, whip out their Wii-Wii, and spray market share all over Microsoft and Sony, ushering in a new, market-wide era of "back to basics gameplay."

Do you really think that's going to happen?

 

[The_Pope]

Too bad those games you listed with the possible with the possible exception of Gothic 3 will be graphic whored crapfests. I mean Battlefield 2142? Anyone who played Battlefield 2 which combined the worst of the Sims and autoerotic asphyxiation would have to be an insane guano eating mountain hermit to even consider buying 2142.

They're all going to make millions because they're 'graphics whored crapfests'. If you're going to judge it on deep intellectual games then gaming in general has been dead for years.

 

[Necaradan666]

From the last figures I saw (a few months old) WoW outsold the 360, OMG CONSOLES R DED LOLZ.

No, the 360 is dead (unless Microsoft can pull a trick out of its hat).

That's simple Microsoft WoW for Xbox 360 anyone?

Anytime I need to type something on the xbox I plug in the keyboard

 

[Bradylama]

I never said that the current generation of consoles should release keyboard and mouse add-ons right now and support them. I'm talking about the future of consoles. Obviously consoles are moving in the direction of "entertainment PCs." You can download, socialize, compete in multiplayer. You can play CDs, DVDs.

Right. So much so to the point where the dudes who tried modding their Xboxes into honest-to-God PCs will become so rampant that the Personal Computer itself dips in sales.

What you're suggesting is that the markets would converge, not that the automobile replaced the horse. It's more like a Doom 3 Pinky Demon at the point you're describing.

And I'll wager that almost every single console owner has a mouse and keyboard as well. Whats to say that the XBox 4-Play won't have some 2010-era wireless technology that lets you share the keyboard between systems?

That depends entirely on whether or not people actually want to use the keyboard and mouse on their consoles.

You still haven't given me a reason, by the way, for why despite the technology being there for years, why the console market hasn't embraced the mouse and keyboard. Xbox Live has been around for quite a while. Why isn't it that we haven't seen the XMouse&Keyboard at Gamestops? Oh that's right, it's because Microsoft wants people to buy PCs.

That being said, maybe Nintendo will unzip their pants, whip out their Wii-Wii, and spray market share all over Microsoft and Sony, ushering in a new, market-wide era of "back to basics gameplay."

Do you really think that's going to happen?

I'm sure as Hell going to do my best to make it happen. The sticker price definitely makes the Wii a contender as it is. A 300 dollar system with 50 dollar games? That my good sir, is a bargain that makes anybody wary of purchasing an Xbox360 or PS3. Particularly considering now that Microsoft has announced that they're going to encourage porting 360 games to the PC. No point indeed.

 

[The_Pope]

That's simple Microsoft WoW for Xbox 360 anyone?

Anytime I need to type something on the xbox I plug in the keyboard

Blizzard recently moved most of their console staff to help with an unspecified PC RTS (hopefully Starcraft 2), so I don't think thats likely. However, with Halo 3 and Gears of War coming up I doubt the 360 is in much trouble.