Molyneux Fable 2 hype hits the 'net

[Bluebottle]

What pisses me off most about Molyneux is the way all the British gaming magazines make out like he's some kind of gamemaking maverick, a shining example of British success catering to the old guard of pc players who still want something original and novel from their games. Whereas really he's just a vapid, worthless gimmickmeister relying on rediculous tamagochi style gameplay mechanics, stunning grafix (which are always eye shatteringly twee), blatant lies and a mouth (and ego) the size of Paris.

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

I watched an interview with him back in the days when he was developing Black and White where he said he had shown MIT professors the AI that he had developed for the creatures and they told him it was beyond anything they had achieved. when the guy lies he gos for the big fish stories.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Well, Populous was a highlight of my early gaming days. For a while now though he is just way out there with overhyping. His games are probably still decent, but he should just stop building them up to these be-all end-all supergames that they simply aren't.

 

[Oarfish]

I personaly wouldn't be suprised if PM announced his next project was being completed by little orange aliens from another galaxy and that touching the screen while playing will transport you to another dimension with flowing rivers of chocolate milk.

 

[FrancoTAU]

Well, according to his wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Molyneux

He doesn't really do shit as far as desigining Fable 1 or 2, he's just the mouthpiece. So maybe his talents are still there, but he's still a lying ass.

 

[ixg]

I personaly wouldn't be suprised if PM announced his next project was being completed by little orange aliens from another galaxy and that touching the screen while playing will transport you to another dimension with flowing rivers of chocolate milk.

That would be the best. game. evar.

 

[obediah]

I watched an interview with him back in the days when he was developing Black and White where he said he had shown MIT professors the AI that he had developed for the creatures and they told him it was beyond anything they had achieved. when the guy lies he gos for the big fish stories.

I think he just forgot to mention that they were professers in Woman's Studies

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

Zing!

 

[Araanor]

“There’s going to be more originality in the next ten years than there has been in the history of games so far, I think. Because we’re going to have to. We’ve got everybody who wants to play games; now, we’ve got to create the games for the people who don’t even think of games as entertainment.”

Is this "originality" as in "streamlining" and pointless gimmicks or actual meaningful originality?

Just kidding. It is dying.

It's dead, dead. We're bacteria feeding off the corpse.

Well, maybe not that bad, but I get that feeling at times.

 

[Mr. Teatime]

I keep thinking of the idea that some talented designers work best when they're under some kind of pressure from above. For example, Lucas made the first SW trilogy without having the millions he has today and he had various deadlines and demands to meet from his higher-ups. Similarly, Molyneux made his best games when he was working for a larger publisher who presumably were giving him a lot more deadlines and demands than he has today.
Strange.

 

[ad hominem]

Nah, I don't think it's strange at all. It fits my industry (music) perfectly. Songwriters, arrangers, and composers are incredibly erratic with their output when left to their own devices. It's only when you crack down on them that they can start to produce with any consistency. I think having such an incredibly blank canvas is rather daunting. When there are no restrictions with time, budget, or even the genre of game you're making, it's enough to a splode your head.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Fable: The Lost Chapters was a pretty decent title for the PC though it was tilted more towards action fans with its skill-based combat than anybody else.

I mean, it was good for what it was (an action adventure game) but it definitely didn't live up to all the hype, and RPGers would no doubt be dissapointed that the game doesn't place much emphasis on stats when it comes to the numerous battles you'll inevitably face.

I wouldn't be so quick to put down Molyneux, though. The man did come up with Magic Carpet, Syndicate, Populous, Theme Park, and Dungeon Keeper. You should see Molyneux's original vision for Fable. It was like the most non-linear RPG you could ever imagine. What turned out to be Fable, on the other hand, just wasn't up to snuff with that vision.

I don't know if it's his fault, the fault of his crew, or just Microsoft for shoving the game onto the XBOX, but don't doubt the man's capability to design a good game.

I watched an interview with him back in the days when he was developing Black and White where he said he had shown MIT professors the AI that he had developed for the creatures and they told him it was beyond anything they had achieved. when the guy lies he gos for the big fish stories.

The pathfinding and AI 'training' in Black & White is still one of the best in the industry, actually. Can't say the same for the rest of the game, though.

I keep thinking of the idea that some talented designers work best when they're under some kind of pressure from above. For example, Lucas made the first SW trilogy without having the millions he has today and he had various deadlines and demands to meet from his higher-ups. Similarly, Molyneux made his best games when he was working for a larger publisher who presumably were giving him a lot more deadlines and demands than he has today.
Strange.

Tell me what's so great about the 3 original Star Wars movies.

 

[Mefi]

Tell me what's so great about the 3 original Star Wars movies.

The battle for Hoth. I win.

I agree with you about Molyneux to an extent. His reputation comes from some games which set the standard for their time. Populous, Syndicate and Dungeon Keeper are still on my HD.

Get the feeling he believed his own hype and ended up disappearing up his own backside? It seemed to start with B&W and Fable was schizophrenic when you look at the game Molyneux thought he was making and the game which was released.

 

[Sae]

I wouldn't be so quick to put down Molyneux, though. The man did come up with Magic Carpet, Syndicate, Populous, Theme Park, and Dungeon Keeper. You should see Molyneux's original vision for Fable. It was like the most non-linear RPG you could ever imagine. What turned out to be Fable, on the other hand, just wasn't up to snuff with that vision.

No more free rides.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I wouldn't be so quick to put down Molyneux, though. The man did come up with Magic Carpet, Syndicate, Populous, Theme Park, and Dungeon Keeper. You should see Molyneux's original vision for Fable. It was like the most non-linear RPG you could ever imagine. What turned out to be Fable, on the other hand, just wasn't up to snuff with that vision.

I don't know if it's his fault, the fault of his crew, or just Microsoft for shoving the game onto the XBOX, but don't doubt the man's capability to design a good game.

The problem with Molyneux's vision is that it's generally completely different than the product that comes out. The closest he's come to getting his vision matched up with the final product was The Movies, and it wasn't a very good game either.

His hyping of his vision only makes things worse when they only deliver subpar games.

 

[Claw]

Get the feeling he believed his own hype and ended up disappearing up his own backside? It seemed to start with B&W and Fable was schizophrenic when you look at the game Molyneux thought he was making and the game which was released.

I don't know, I just notice that all his great games were Bullfrog games:

Bullfrog Productions
Populous (1989) (Designer/Programmer)
Powermonger (1990) (Designer/Programmer)
Populous II: Trials of the Olympian Gods (1991) (Designer/Programmer)
Syndicate (1993) (Producer)
Theme Park (1994) (Project Leader/Lead Programmer)
Magic Carpet (1994) (Executive Producer)
Hi-Octane (1995) (Executive Producer)
Dungeon Keeper (1997) (Project Leader/Designer)

And that is where it ends, as fas as I am concerned. DK was his last great game, and Populous II the only sequel that lived up to the original.

I wonder if there is anyone else who worked on all those games.

 

[Higher Game]

At least he's genuinely enthusiastic and he attempts to make good games. He's not John Romero; he has many good games to back him up. He just gets carried away. I respect his vision and efforts to make interesting games, even if they don't always work out.

 

[Mr. Teatime]

I met him years ago when i won a competition to sit on the judging panel of a games award cermony thing in London. He was on the panel as well as a few other developer 'celeberaties' (the president or lead designer of rockstar was another one, can't remember his name but remember talking to him about GTA compared to Carmageddon, heh), we spent around 4 days discussing which games to award various prizes to. Seemed like a nice guy with genuine desire to make great games, he also gave me his card and IIRC said I could contact him if I ever wanted some work experience or something, which I duly lost. I don't realise at the time how good contacts these were to have - Monlyneux, along with Rockstar and some other big names giving me their contact details should I want to get into the industry, or something related to it.

This was around the time the first Black and White was being developed, and yeah he came across as pretty intelligent. But his games haven't lived up to the hype since he's had the funds and power to make what he wants, despite trying to innovate.

 

[Thrawn05]

Fable: The Lost Chapters was a pretty decent title for the PC though it was tilted more towards action fans with its skill-based combat than anybody else.

It did have elements that I wish were in other games, but the problem with fable is that 90% of the stuff in the game ment little in the end. There was no need to be either good or evil, getting married etc... I remember the original hype about this game. It was supposed to be like The Sims RPG.


EDIT: Populous was one of my favorite SNES games when the system first came out.

 

[ixg]

Fable was a console game with a few mini-games included. I played it once, it was pretty fun, nothing special, but I haven't really felt a desire to replay it nor do I think it's a classic.
And actually, B&W is a bit like that too, interesting but not really that great overall. So I'm guessing Molyneux next bit is going to be meh, as well.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The full interview has been posted:
http://spong.com/feature/10109398?cb=715

What would you rate as the best game you've ever made?

Probably Fable.
...
And for it to go on and then sell almost three million units - I don't think any other role-playing game on the Xbox got near to that. I really feel proud of that.

When money equals quality...

And this is another thing we've thought about a lot: OK you could be good or evil in Fable, but what about rich and poor, what about cruel and kind - what about those scales? How can you balance them to reflect what you're like as a person? Can I go through the whole game as one incredible hero, but being completely penniless? Or can I go through the game being not much of a hero but incredibly wealthy? There has been a lot of talk about those sort of considerations.

The tyranny of choices.

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

Lost of talk? From who, who the fuck has been looking to play a penniless hero? Thats the most bizarre claim i've heard yet.... I want to relect what i'm like as a person by playing a penniless hero?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

That is rather silly. The only way to even be penniless in most CRPGs is to basically do nothing. As long as you're doing something, you're going to start making the gold coins. If you're doing quests, you're getting paid. If you're killing monsters, you're getting loot.

About the only way I can see to have a CRPG where you are penniless is if you have some kind of money sink that a player will want to participate in which drains his coffers. To be penniless, or have nothing really to show for that money sink, is probably something a player won't want to do anyway.

 

[HardCode]

Nah, I don't think it's strange at all. It fits my industry (music) perfectly. Songwriters, arrangers, and composers are incredibly erratic with their output when left to their own devices. It's only when you crack down on them that they can start to produce with any consistency. I think having such an incredibly blank canvas is rather daunting. When there are no restrictions with time, budget, or even the genre of game you're making, it's enough to a splode your head.

But today's corporate music sucks ass to the power of eleventeen. Led Zepplin and the Beatles each had their own studios and wrote & recorded on their own desire. And each just got better and better. I think that if you need pressure to produce something decent, then all you will ever be is decent. Not great.

 

[ad hominem]

But today's corporate music sucks ass to the power of eleventeen. Led Zepplin and the Beatles each had their own studios and wrote & recorded on their own desire. And each just got better and better. I think that if you need pressure to produce something decent, then all you will ever be is decent. Not great.

Some people (very few, but some) work well in a carte blanche scenario, but most don't. Even the Beatles had label pressure for a long time; it was only near the end they started to really gain autonomy. And personally, I like their more constrained albums better. Revolver and Rubber Soul > White Album and Abbey Road.

Besides, the music industry has been this way for a long time, and there has been great music produced in the past. The reason it's in such a funk right now is because the flavor of the month is rap/hip-hop...which isn't music. It's a flaming ball of suck.