Wasteland Wasteland 2 Pre-Release Discussion Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Vault Dweller]

BTW mbpopolano24 is still at it: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2/comments

Kickstarter was supposed to free us from the 'evil' publishers. Now we are dealing with (some) 'evil' developers. Refunding unhappy people make just sense from a business point of view, that's all. ixLIE can decide to opt me out, or deal with the consequences. Either way, I'll get my money back.

Vault Dweller Did this guy ever pay you money for Age of Decadence?

I don't think so. He didn't like the demo.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Wait, why are they going to DeepSilver?

 

[tuluse]

Wait, why are they going to DeepSilver?

They need a company to print boxes, press DVDs, make trinkets, and deliver everything. It's cheaper for them to have DeepSilver handle it than trying to do it themselves.

 

[Vault Dweller]

http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/330343012/comments

Great speech, Mr. Stoic, bravo. Take all the time you want, as long as the game is so very good. One, two, 10 years, who cares? As long as the game is so very good. And in the meantime why not (begging) asking for more money with another Kickstarter (or two)? Actually, I have another brilliant idea: why don't you, Mr. Schafer, and the nice people at Harebrained Schemes (what an appropriate name, BTW!) join forces and make the best game ever (guaranteed), for just 150 M dollars, delivered within 2048...ehm.. 2018 (guaranteed!).
Jul. 04, 2013 on The Banner Saga.

Tim Schafer, you are a disgrace for the game industry. Maybe you 'started' kickstarter for games, but you certainly will 'kill' it. Unfortunately is human nature to take advantage of other people good faith and dreams, as it is human nature to be a 'sheep' and continue defending a project that has clearly broken all and every promises. Remember the 'celebratory' video in which our 'Dear Leader' was throwing money at himself? Well, apparently that was not just 'figurative speech'.
Jul. 02, 2013 on Double Fine Adventure.

Well, at least DFA is reacting promptly and honorably to address complains from people who have a problem with the current developments (if you don’t, good for you, keep waiting and hoping for the best). I was offered a refund, which is the only fact I care about at this point. I am reporting this for people who would like to ask for a refund as well. If the refund will materialize, I will immediately cease my activity in this forum.
Jul. 03, 2013 on Double Fine Adventure.

Actually the refund has been already issued! Thanks and good luck, I'm out.
Jul. 03, 2013 on Double Fine Adventure.

Hi guys, this is my last message here. I just want to let you know that in response to my email, HBS offered to refund my contribution. I declined and just asked to be removed from the database. In light of this response, I am now convinced that HBS did not take their decisions on DRM and game features with a malicious intent. So, have fun with the game and good-bye.
Apr. 13, 2013 on Shadowrun Returns.

Yes, thank you for the update. I am glad we are all learning something new here. As a backer, I have learned that I should not be one. It is better to wait for the finished product before caring for a concept.
Apr. 13, 2013 on Expeditions: Conquistador.

Isn't he a ray of sunshine?

 

[Infinitron]

Brother None has summed up some of the podcast's talking points: http://wastelandrpg.tumblr.com/post...e-aftermath-talks-with-brian-fargo-and-nathan

I'll listen to it and do my own summary later on, for the glory of Codexia.

 

[Vault Dweller]

That would be much appreciated.

 

[DragoFireheart]

http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/330343012/comments

Great speech, Mr. Stoic, bravo. Take all the time you want, as long as the game is so very good. One, two, 10 years, who cares? As long as the game is so very good. And in the meantime why not (begging) asking for more money with another Kickstarter (or two)? Actually, I have another brilliant idea: why don't you, Mr. Schafer, and the nice people at Harebrained Schemes (what an appropriate name, BTW!) join forces and make the best game ever (guaranteed), for just 150 M dollars, delivered within 2048...ehm.. 2018 (guaranteed!).
Jul. 04, 2013 on The Banner Saga.

Tim Schafer, you are a disgrace for the game industry. Maybe you 'started' kickstarter for games, but you certainly will 'kill' it. Unfortunately is human nature to take advantage of other people good faith and dreams, as it is human nature to be a 'sheep' and continue defending a project that has clearly broken all and every promises. Remember the 'celebratory' video in which our 'Dear Leader' was throwing money at himself? Well, apparently that was not just 'figurative speech'.
Jul. 02, 2013 on Double Fine Adventure.

Well, at least DFA is reacting promptly and honorably to address complains from people who have a problem with the current developments (if you don’t, good for you, keep waiting and hoping for the best). I was offered a refund, which is the only fact I care about at this point. I am reporting this for people who would like to ask for a refund as well. If the refund will materialize, I will immediately cease my activity in this forum.
Jul. 03, 2013 on Double Fine Adventure.

Actually the refund has been already issued! Thanks and good luck, I'm out.
Jul. 03, 2013 on Double Fine Adventure.

Hi guys, this is my last message here. I just want to let you know that in response to my email, HBS offered to refund my contribution. I declined and just asked to be removed from the database. In light of this response, I am now convinced that HBS did not take their decisions on DRM and game features with a malicious intent. So, have fun with the game and good-bye.
Apr. 13, 2013 on Shadowrun Returns.

Yes, thank you for the update. I am glad we are all learning something new here. As a backer, I have learned that I should not be one. It is better to wait for the finished product before caring for a concept.
Apr. 13, 2013 on Expeditions: Conquistador.

Isn't he a ray of sunshine?

He's either a troll, a viral marketer, or a butt hurt developer with a grudge.

 

[Brother None]

That really is one of the most information-dense WL2 interviews I've seen since the Kickstarter ended. Well worth the listen.

The biggest newsbits are Brian revealing one of LA's factions (one of my favs) and talking about ending states:

Spoiler

Paraphrasing: "Revisiting what the end of the game means. If you become a vigilante desert ranger, do I even let you go to LA? Are they even going to send you? Or will they instead send hitsquads after you?"
Basically there'll be "a lot more than three endings", and there are endings along the timeline rather than just at the end.

Wait, why are they going to DeepSilver?

They need a company to print boxes, press DVDs, make trinkets, and deliver everything. It's cheaper for them to have DeepSilver handle it than trying to do it themselves.

Honestly, I can't talk exact money considerations, but I think it'd knock people off their feet how much of a money swing this distribution license represents, all of which is going right back into the game. It's nice!

 

[EG]

What's the rage about this deal?

"inXile is no longer a Indie Developer, wahhh"

As if they ever were . . .

 

[Brother None]

"inXile is no longer a Indie Developer, wahhh"

As if they ever were . . .

Aren't we? How do you define indie? We're not part of any publisher nor is our development budget funded by a publisher. Isn't that independent? Or do you mean indie more in the "tiny indie company" sense?

 

[KithKanan]

"inXile is no longer a Indie Developer, wahhh"

As if they ever were . . .

Aren't we? How do you define indie? We're not part of any publisher nor is our development budget funded by a publisher. Isn't that independent? Or do you mean indie more in the "tiny indie company" sense?

Guessing more in the "stays righteously independent. Has always scorned any type of deal with anyone who might be construed as a publisher, because that would be 'selling out'. Has hipster anti-establishment cred. Hates corporations and the man so much, they run their game studio as a sole proprietorship instead of incorporating it." sense.

 

[Infinitron]

Of course you realize that rules out every single indie that has ever published on the XBox Live marketplace

 

[KithKanan]

Of course you realize that rules out every single indie that has ever published on the XBox Live marketplace

Somehow I think people using that definition of 'indie' would consider that a feature, not a bug.

 

[Brother None]

Of course you realize that rules out every single indie that has ever published on the XBox Live marketplace

Rules out Notch and Jonathan Blow, who are kind of the bannermen of indies as far as the press is concerned.

But it does include Spiderweb!

 

[Zed]

an independent company is not part of a concern. it is not controlled externally.
I can't say what an 'indie' is, but it seems to be more than that.

 

[SuicideBunny]

But it does include Spiderweb!

valve is a publisher so all people selling games on steam are also automatically excluded from being indies by that definition.

 

[Infinitron]

KOTC guy is the only true indie, it seems.

 

[KithKanan]

an independent company is not part of a concern. it does not have external control.
I can't say what an 'indie' is, but it seems to be more than that.

I think there's a certain expectation of team size and type of games you're making that factors in there.
If you're making AAA games, you're almost by definition non-indie, no matter what your corporate ownership looks like.

inXile is, I think, small enough to still be Indie.

Double Fine is probably Indie now that they've split their studio and are making multiple small projects for different publishers, private investors, and kickstarter rather than one big team making a multi-year project for a single publisher.

Obsidian feels rather big to call Indie honestly.

 

[DragoFireheart]

KOTC guy is the only true indie, it seems.

No True Scotsman.

 

[Zed]

Obsidian feels rather big to call Indie honestly.

yeah I think when Avellone says Obsidiant is independent, I'm pretty sure he refers to Obsidian not being owned by EA or something (like Bioware).

 

[AN4RCHID]

That really is one of the most information-dense WL2 interviews I've seen since the Kickstarter ended. Well worth the listen.

The biggest newsbits are Brian revealing one of LA's factions (one of my favs)

The White Glove Society?

 

[Rake]

Indie doesn't mean independent in people's minds anymore. It was so long since a big or medium sized company made a game that wasn't publiser funded that until now people equate "indie" with a 1-5 person team that has absolutely no deals with publisers, is only digital and has low production values.
Kickstarted games (the big ones) don't fit with that definition by default as the intention was to bring back the "medium sized 15-25 person team". Add physical distribution and it no longer fits the indie image some people have in mind.
That doesn't make them less independent.

 

[Brother None]

The White Glove Society?

Don't forget Fallout 3's Andale. This is a template you see a lot in post-apocalyptic stories but I do honestly feel the WL2 faction's tone sets it apart enough.

 

[AN4RCHID]

I forgot about Andale. Obsidian and inXile confirmed for ripping off Fallout 3.

 

[KithKanan]

Indie doesn't mean independent in people's minds anymore. It was so long since a big or medium sized company made a game that wasn't publiser funded that until now people equate "indie" with a 1-5 person team that has absolutely no deals with publisers, is only digital and has low production values.
Kickstarted games (the big ones) don't fit with that definition by default as the intention was to bring back the "medium sized 15-25 person team". Add physical distribution and it no longer fits the indie image some people have in mind.
That doesn't make them less independent.

I feel like it's easier to define an "indie game" than an "indie developer". An "indie game" would be one that isn't pitched to, financed by, and produced for a publisher but instead funded using private investment, advance purchases (including kickstarter and alpha-funding), and developer free-time.

If an indie game does well enough, it will almost certainly have to bring in a publisher/distributor for things like retail copies (the days of calling up computer stores and selling them floppies in baggies are looooong gone) and platforms like XBL that require publishers. In fact, I'd say if you're self-distributing a game beyond a certain scale, you become 'not-indie' because you essentially become a publisher yourself. See: Valve, CDPR.