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New Space Hulk

Burning Bridges

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TotalBiscuit: "this is low budget"
 

spectre

Arcane
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Oct 26, 2008
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Downloaded. Wow, this is low budget indeed. Doesn't even have an intro vid and I'm pretty positive it wasn't ripped... it's not the 1990s anymore.
Edit: Scratch that, it has an intro movie, I must have clicked past it by accident. Nothing to write home bout, though. It mostly uses in game assets with a filter.
Starting screen has the tell tale Unity quirk, the camera tilts as you move the mouse. Seriously, doesn't anyone in the business know how to turn it off?
I've never played any tabletop, only played alien assault (didn't love it).

I have to confirm, the terminators move at a borderline annoying speed, would it kill anyone to add a goddamn speed slider in the goddamn menu?
At least you can order several around at once to save time, but it makes me cringe every time a termie takes 5 full seconds to turn 180 degrees.
The controls aren't the best, but they can be gotten used to. Misclicks sometimes happen, but there's always the undo button to save your ass.
There's no free camera look, it only rotates at a set angle. There's a small PiP shoulder mounted camera view which is a nice (if useless gimmick).
We also get an ackshun camera whenever a unit scores a kill. Pretty satisfying to watch genestealers get ripped apart by the autocannon this way.

When it comes to audio, video and the general atmosphere, I have to say, I was pretty surprised. Terminators sound the way you would expect them to, they spew out occassional one-liners about the emprah, machine spirits, purging xenos and the like.
Schorched genestealers scream satisfyingly. Only the guy narrating the mission briefings feels wooden at times.
Surprisingly, there is no music on a mission (only during briefing and in the menus) You're left with a very delicate ambient sound of humming machinery and echoing terminator footsteps, until shit hits the fan and the ir is filled with bolters singing and shrieking tyranids.
Atmosphere wise, they did a pretty decent job in my opinion.
Graphics are solid, for what it's worth. The hulk corridors look pretty same-ish (but there are some nice details here and there)... though that was expected. Go watch some screenshots, it looks exactly like in the pictures.

So, how does it play? Like I said, my most recent point of reference is alien assault. Don't know too much about the tabletop. In my opinion it plays better, but at the same time seems much easier. I managed to finish the two missions I attepted today with no casualties on my first try. I'm calling it a day for now, but I do hope it picks up soon. Main campaign is only 12 missions long, so I would feel cheated if a 27 quid game would only last me for two days worth of gaming. You'll probably tell me to man up and play on hard... unfortunately, I dislike timed turns with a passion (which are mandatory for hard difficulty). No one's gonna hurrt me around in my freaking turn based game, though I dunno, maybe that's how it was meant to be played originally.
So far, the mission objectives feel pretty varied and interesting. Not bad for an all-corridor setting.
Anyways, my main gripe with AA was how random it felt. Somehow SH makes me feel better, as it lists all the die rolls, bonuses and requirements to succeed.
I've yet to encounter any show-stopping bugs at this point.

My verdict at the moment is that it doesn't feel worth the asking price. It has its flaws, but is not a bad game.
Multiplayer and scenario editor may be its saving grace, though I'm thinking there's only so much you can squeeze out of the uniform hulk corridors.
 
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Dr Tomo

Learned
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
670
Location
In a library near you
Downloaded. Wow, this is low budget indeed. Doesn't even have an intro vid and I'm pretty positive it wasn't ripped... it's not the 1990s anymore.
Starting screen has the tell tale Unity quirk, the camera tilts as you move the mouse. Seriously, doesn't anyone in the business know how to turn it off?
I've never played any tabletop, only played alien assault (didn't love it).

I have to confirm, the terminators move at a borderline annoying speed, would it kill anyone to add a goddamn speed slider in the goddamn menu?
At least you can order several around at once to save time, but it makes me cringe every time a termie takes 5 full seconds to turn 180 degrees.
The controls aren't the best, but they can be gotten used to. Misclicks sometimes happen, but there's always the undo button to save your ass.
There's no free camera look, it only rotates at a set angle. There's a small PiP shoulder mounted camera view which is a nice (if useless gimmick).
We also get an ackshun camera whenever a unit scores a kill. Pretty satisfying to watch genestealers get ripped apart by the autocannon this way.

When it comes to audio, video and the general atmosphere, I have to say, I was pretty surprised. Terminators sound the way you would expect them to, they spew out occassional one-liners about the emprah, machine spirits, purging xenos and the like.
Schorched genestealers scream satisfyingly. Only the guy narrating the mission briefings feels wooden at times.
Surprisingly, there is no music on a mission (only during briefing and in the menus) You're left with a very delicate ambient sound of humming machinery and echoing terminator footsteps, until shit hits the fan and the ir is filled with bolters singing and shrieking tyranids.
Atmosphere wise, they did a pretty decent job in my opinion.
Graphics are solid, for what it's worth. The hulk corridors look pretty same-ish (but there are some nice details here and there)... though that was expected. Go watch some screenshots, it looks exactly like in the pictures.

So, how does it play? Like I said, my most recent point of reference is alien assault. Don't know too much about the tabletop. In my opinion it plays better, but at the same time seems much easier. I managed to finish the two missions I attepted today with no casualties on my first try. I'm calling it a day for now, but I do hope it picks up soon. Main campaign is only 12 missions long, so I would feel cheated if a 27 quid game would only last me for two days worth of gaming. You'll probably tell me to man up and play on hard... unfortunately, I dislike timed turns with a passion (which are mandatory for hard difficulty). No one's gonna hurrt me around in my freaking turn based game, though I dunno, maybe that's how it was meant to be played originally.
So far, the mission objectives feel pretty varied and interesting. Not bad for an all-corridor setting.
Anyways, my main gripe with AA was how random it felt. Somehow SH makes me feel better, as it lists all the die rolls, bonuses and requirements to succeed.
I've yet to encounter any show-stopping bugs at this point.

My verdict at the moment is that it doesn't feel worth the asking price. It has its flaws, but is not a bad game.
Multiplayer and scenario editor may be its saving grace, though I'm thinking there's only so much you can squeeze out of the uniform hulk corridors.

It took a while but I knew someone would eventually post a review that didn't jerk off to the board game every other sentence. So at most 75% off sale after a price adjustment?
 

Bluebottle

Erudite
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Dead State Wasteland 2
So, sounds pretty much like Blood Bowl, then? Bad coding and rushed low budget job doesn't totally take away from something based on a solid, fun rule set.

Or is it worse?
 
Joined
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Messages
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Isn't Blood Bowl 10 times deeper strategically than Space Hulk though? (asking really, because i've never played Space Hulk)
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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No clue. Was just speaking from a principle perspective. Blood Bowl is still - after 20 patches and two expansions - a relatively broken game.
 

spectre

Arcane
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Isn't Blood Bowl 10 times deeper strategically than Space Hulk though? (asking really, because i've never played Space Hulk)
It has a distinct boardgamey feel, with the added bonus of the action camera, sounds and music. That was their goal apparently, and I have to say it works.
Like I said before, I don't want to draw any far-reaching conclusions, being three missions into the campaign at the moment, but thus far it seems that the pinnacle of strategic depth in space hulk is positioning the terminators on overwatch so as to maximize the number of shots fired at the approaching genestealers, and walling off corridors with the flamer. Not that it's hard to do, as the AI has yet to surprise me with any sort of tactical feat. As a matter of fact, I noticed that it has trouble working the system and spotting obvious weaknesses in my defense... which I believe is what playing genestealers is all about. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the game showed its true potential in multiplayer, as all board games do.
 

Misconnected

Savant
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
587
No clue. Was just speaking from a principle perspective. Blood Bowl is still - after 20 patches and two expansions - a relatively broken game.

Broken is far too strong a word. It lacks polish and has a crap AI, but other than that, it's 99.5% there.

SH also has crap AI and lacks (even more) polish, but in my experience it is 100% there.

As for which is the deeper strategy game, the answer is quite definitely BB. But they're very different games. BB wont scratch your SH itch, and vice versa.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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No clue. Was just speaking from a principle perspective. Blood Bowl is still - after 20 patches and two expansions - a relatively broken game.

Broken is far too strong a word. It lacks polish and has a crap AI, but other than that, it's 99.5% there.

If we disregard rules functionality and flashy graphics, FUMBBL is still a better game. That is pretty fucking embarrasing.

We still haven't had one Codex league where less than 5-7 games haven't ended because of the shitty client, and those are just the gamestoppers.
 
Joined
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As for which is the deeper strategy game, the answer is quite definitely BB. But they're very different games. BB wont scratch your SH itch, and vice versa.

Thanks, thought as much.
I've never tried SH, and looking in from the outside, i have to say it doesn't look very interesting strategically to me. Guess i don't have the itch.
 

Dr Tomo

Learned
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In a library near you
Isn't Blood Bowl 10 times deeper strategically than Space Hulk though? (asking really, because i've never played Space Hulk)
It has a distinct boardgamey feel, with the added bonus of the action camera, sounds and music. That was their goal apparently, and I have to say it works.
Like I said before, I don't want to draw any far-reaching conclusions, being three missions into the campaign at the moment, but thus far it seems that the pinnacle of strategic depth in space hulk is positioning the terminators on overwatch so as to maximize the number of shots fired at the approaching genestealers, and walling off corridors with the flamer. Not that it's hard to do, as the AI has yet to surprise me with any sort of tactical feat. As a matter of fact, I noticed that it has trouble working the system and spotting obvious weaknesses in my defense... which I believe is what playing genestealers is all about. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the game showed its true potential in multiplayer, as all board games do.

But isn't well over 90% of games on the market has crap a.I? I haven't played that many recent strategy games that had strong a.i and wonder why people keeps bringing it up like it is going to change and studios will actually put resources into polishing the a.i.
 

spectre

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Well, in this case I'm not really asking for a strong AI, I'm merely asking for the AI to have any sort of plan. I don't know if it's because the ruleset favors the Termies too much, or I am that good (unlikely), but thus far the AI does a great job rushing a 3x3 section with two guys on overwatch guarding it. So far whenever I lose a guy it's because of fudged die roll, and I've yet to retry the mission due to reasons other than a crash. Maybe I should have enabled the timer (iirc the original game has an hourglass to rush the player), but this wouldn't change the fact that the ai seems unable to work the system in any meaningful way. To add insult to injury, the game supposedly uses the orignal maps that came with the boardgame box which, I suspect, are pretty well known, so it wouldn't kill anybody to teach the AI some common tactics.

Also, 90% of everything may be shit, but it doesn't mean we have to put up with it and stay silent. Civilization, Total War and Expeditions Conquistador can put up an AI that doesn't embarass itself most of the time... I expect the same out of guys who claim that they want to make a Jagged Alliance game.
 

Misconnected

Savant
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
587
Well, in this case I'm not really asking for a strong AI, I'm merely asking for the AI to have any sort of plan. I don't know if it's because the ruleset favors the Termies too much, or I am that good (unlikely), but thus far the AI does a great job rushing a 3x3 section with two guys on overwatch guarding it.

I believe there's general agreement the Sin of Damnation mission design mostly favours the 'Stealer player.

The AI doesn't seem to understand how to use the Marine player's AP/CP.

Killing the Termies is all about draining those points, which typically means forcing one to turn 180 or walk backwards, and coming at it from at least 2 directions. Which typically means you spend your 1 Stealer Blips as you get them, to harass and slow the Termies and buy time to figure out which 3'ish entry points to flood with 3 Stealer Blips, and to buy time to get all the blips you need. And you typically do this multiple times, once for each Termie you need to face-fuck to death (just like Alien, except 'Stealers get you preggers).

Also, 90% of everything may be shit, but it doesn't mean we have to put up with it and stay silent.

Hear, hear!
 

spectre

Arcane
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Oct 26, 2008
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So, I beat the notorious mission no.6. When I moved the librarian to the exit point, the game interpreted it as though I lost him and resulted in a failure. Which felt as a flap in the face as I spent a good hour to solve it for no casualties. Yay.
 

Bluebottle

Erudite
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Dead State Wasteland 2
No clue. Was just speaking from a principle perspective. Blood Bowl is still - after 20 patches and two expansions - a relatively broken game.

Broken is far too strong a word. It lacks polish and has a crap AI, but other than that, it's 99.5% there.

SH also has crap AI and lacks (even more) polish, but in my experience it is 100% there.

As for which is the deeper strategy game, the answer is quite definitely BB. But they're very different games. BB wont scratch your SH itch, and vice versa.

There's still a fair amount of game breakers, especially if you're playing in online leagues. What makes it worse is that the core coding team apparently left Cyanide, and those left working on it are so unfamiliar with the code base that patching it is pretty much infeasible for them. This is one of the reasons they're putting out BB2 (beyond the obvious that it's the only game they've got that sells, and they might as well milk that baby for all its worth).
 

Dr Tomo

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Also, 90% of everything may be shit, but it doesn't mean we have to put up with it and stay silent. Civilization, Total War and Expeditions Conquistador can put up an AI that doesn't embarass itself most of the time... I expect the same out of guys who claim that they want to make a Jagged Alliance game.

Fixed for u and only reason why I won't cross out the last one is because I have yet to play the game. Actually no one really puts up with anything, more like people just choose to be ignorant of the flaws of the game and people wonder why the industry is in this state of low quality titles being pumped out like clockwork.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
5,381
Also, 90% of everything may be shit, but it doesn't mean we have to put up with it and stay silent. Civilization, Total War and Expeditions Conquistador can put up an AI that doesn't embarass itself most of the time... I expect the same out of guys who claim that they want to make a Jagged Alliance game.

Fixed for u and only reason why I won't cross out the last one is because I have yet to play the game. Actually no one really puts up with anything, more like people just choose to be ignorant of the flaws of the game and people wonder why the industry is in this state of low quality titles being pumped out like clockwork.
Tomo pls.... I'm not arguing that Civ or Total War has good AI, I'm merely stating that at least these two games know how to work the system, as in they'll play to win, if able, and have an occassional moment of clarity every now and then, that's something I've yet to experience in Space Hulk, as it seems to run on very simplistic routines - pick a target, flood the closest corridor with genestealers. 6 missions in and I've yet to see it try anything close to a coordinated attack from multiple sides. Yes, Space Hulk makes Total War and Civ AI look really good by comparison imo.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Right now I just wish the AI did not reveal blips on the very next turn after they spawn.
 

Dr Tomo

Learned
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Also, 90% of everything may be shit, but it doesn't mean we have to put up with it and stay silent. Civilization, Total War and Expeditions Conquistador can put up an AI that doesn't embarass itself most of the time... I expect the same out of guys who claim that they want to make a Jagged Alliance game.

Fixed for u and only reason why I won't cross out the last one is because I have yet to play the game. Actually no one really puts up with anything, more like people just choose to be ignorant of the flaws of the game and people wonder why the industry is in this state of low quality titles being pumped out like clockwork.
Tomo pls.... I'm not arguing that Civ or Total War has good AI, I'm merely stating that at least these two games know how to work the system, as in they'll play to win, if able, and have an occassional moment of clarity every now and then, that's something I've yet to experience in Space Hulk, as it seems to run on very simplistic routines - pick a target, flood the closest corridor with genestealers. 6 missions in and I've yet to see it try anything close to a coordinated attack from multiple sides. Yes, Space Hulk makes Total War and Civ AI look really good by comparison imo.

Never intended this to be an argument over a.i, just pointing out the unreliability of your review when it comes to a.i when you cited those games. You aren't and won't be the only one that I point this out too when people makes reviews on a.i in any strategy game which they use bad examples like many of the reviewers from the more main stream gaming press. Either way I am dropping the subject.

I appreciate that you are explaining some of the simple routines though in this post as it gives info for me to use my personal experience to make a judgement on a.i. With the some of the info you have given me it seems a bit disappointing and at minimum a price drop / 75% sale looks to be right in my opinion, unless there is something that you believe is a major positive.
 

spectre

Arcane
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Oct 26, 2008
Messages
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Yeah, I should have elaborated on the AI comparison a bit more, you're right, though I felt the message I tried to get across was clear: the AI is not the challenge, single, bad die rolls and how you deal with them is.
But, it wasn't that much of a review, let's be honest, it was first impressions at best. For a full review, I'd first have to complete the full game (which is unlikely until they patch mission 6) - that's basic integrity :)

If you're asking for a major positive, I'd say it captures the space hulk feel quite well. The corridors are foreboding, the models look like they should, the audio is consistent in style with what you know from, say, Dawn of War.
Fried tyranids scream like they should, blood splatters and dead bodies litter the corridor. It all looks low budget but is decent craftsmanship.
Like I said, I'm not too familiar with the boardgame, but it seems that it is quite faithful to it, and it does have a nice, boardgamey feel, so that may be added value for fans.
 

Misconnected

Savant
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
587
It's actually a better single-player game at the moment if you use the SH mod pack. The mod pack contains almost all the missions published by GW since SH1e.
Link plz?

Can't remember, but go ask nicely at Teardown's forums and I'm sure someone will help you out.

EDIT: As Spectre said the new SH is very, very consistent with the boardgame. Marines don't lose their AP if you don't spend them all in one go, and 'Stealer entry points can't be locked down by Marines, but that's the notable differences.
 
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Jashiin

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
1,440
Incredible how many 80% finished games are being dumped on the market these days.
 

Misconnected

Savant
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
587
Incredible how many 80% finished games are being dumped on the market these days.

I suspect the ratio's been steadily decreasing. At least it feels that way to me. Either way, I'm not exactly pining for the bad old days of typing code from books.
 

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