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RPG Vault roundtable, part II

Drain

Scholar
Joined
May 3, 2005
Messages
215
Location
Here
Movies industry and games industry share certain similarities, so I think that this article about Lions Gate Films would be relevant to this discussion. It shows that a company with a right business approach can be successful, while targeting niche audiences.
Here are some quotes:

With that kind of opportunistic thinking, Feltheimer and vice chairman Michael Burns have built nine-year-old Lions Gate into the Southwest Airlines of the movie industry: a disciplined, no-frills, profitable independent studio. Last year the 18 films the company released grossed $344 million at the nation's box office, and 15 of them made a profit, a phenomenal success rate in Hollywood.

............
Lions Gate keeps its bets small, producing or acquiring inexpensive niche pictures. It markets them cheaply but aggressively and relies on one of the industry's largest film and TV libraries to provide enough cash to ride out the ups and downs.

............
Lions Gate moves fast and inexpensively. It makes and markets most of its movies for under $20 million, compared with the $100 million industry average. Lions Gate will usually acquire only finished art films, for example, because of the higher risk of execution. And even then it won't shell out much more than a couple million. "What we're really good at is figuring out how to position ourselves to make money most of the time, and if we lose money, not lose a lot," Burns says.

............
The studio has proved adept at making hits out of projects others don't want to touch. Take "Hostel," for example, a horror picture in which European bad guys attack touring American college boys with power tools. Sony had Lions Gate distribute it because it was so violent. (It later grossed almost $50 million.)
And then there's "Saw," released in 2004, which begins with two people chained to a rusty pipe with only a handsaw to attempt escape. (The saw is too weak to break their steel shackles but just about right for flesh and bone.) Little money was spent on television or newspaper ads for the movie.
Instead, Lions Gate created an Internet site that put fans into scenes from Saw, with the question "How fucked up is that?" It flooded comic-book and horror conventions with posters bearing images of severed limbs. It even organized an actual blood drive, advertised with a poster of a sexy nurse (actually a Lions Gate marketing executive) who was drenched in blood.
Perhaps the topper was an amputee beauty pageant on Howard Stern's TV show. "My only rule is, don't get arrested," says Tim Palen, Lions Gate's co-president of theatrical marketing. All told, "Saw" cost $1 million to produce and $18 million to market. It made $55 million at the box office and spawned a lucrative franchise. (DVD sales have already topped $70 million.) "Saw II," which opened exactly one year after the first film and cost $6 million to make, trounced "The Legend of Zorro" (which cost an estimated $75 million) at the box office.
"Saw II" brought in $87 million in theaters and another $90 million in DVD sales. "There is no one else in Hollywood who could have made and marketed these films better," says Saw producer Mark Burg, taking a break from the set of Saw III, which will be released on Halloween. "There are even Saw conventions now."

Lions Gate Films made some of the best horror movies of the past few years. They are not strong on next-gen special effects(Bloom!!! Bump Mapping!!!!!), but they are well made and fun.

I hope that AoD brings a large heap of money and makes Iron Tower the Lions Gate Films of the cRPG industry.
 

Top Hat

Scholar
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
476
Hazelnut said:
cost $1 million to produce and $18 million to market

Anyone else find that fact depressing?

Yes. I lynched myself last night when I heard the news. Took some doing, since I didn't know any white supremacists.
 

Veracity

Liturgist
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
155
Monica21 said:
This is probably naive, but why not simply use a different type of game to make money on, and then use a smaller studio to make RPGs, instead of pretending that a shooter with stats is an RPG?
Assuming anyone's even doing them, I guess the cost/benefit analyses for low-production-value RPGs aren't good enough. If EA (substitute preferred industry behemoth as you will) thought running a small in-house niche studio would generate worthwhile profits, they'd do it.

The trend towards slapping 'RPG elements' on more or less anything doesn't necessarily indicate any interest in developing what I guess you could call a codex-RPG. I think 'RPG elements' as used by the industry means 'now with added stat-grinding'. Damned if I really understand why, but stat-grinding for its own sake seems to be a popular gameplay element. I guess it's a cost-effective way of making games generate some sense of achievement, if a kind of depressingly Pavlovian one.
 

sheek

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
8,659
Location
Cydonia
Interesting article, Drain.

But I doubt Irontower, Spiderweb, Basilisk, Zero-Sum, Taleworlds or any other Indie company is going t become a Lions Gate of RPGs. To start with you need a lot of money for the marketting and you need to be producing more than one game at a time. You have to have some kind of economy of scale and a dependable cashflow to have the chance to compete. Also obviously the niche horror movie market is uncomparably bigger than the old-school CRPG market...
 

suibhne

Erudite
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
Messages
1,951
Location
Chicago
Veracity said:
If EA (substitute preferred industry behemoth as you will) thought running a small in-house niche studio would generate worthwhile profits, they'd do it.

Yes...where "worthwhile profits" = "maximum profits". There's no doubt such a studio could be made profitable; the problem is the insistence on maximizing profits and year-on-year corporate growth for the shareholders, rather than producing good product.
 

FrancoTAU

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
2,507
Location
Brooklyn, NY
The Movie Industry is also weird in that the distributors (i.e. the movie theaters) get ass raped by the studios. Even a Lion's Gate is going to take home 8 bucks out of the 10 they charge you at the theater.

The Video game industry is a litte bit more fucked up with the publisher and than the distributors(stores) getting a pretty big slice of the sale. The business model is really working against small to medium sized developers.

The only way we'll see the next Troika of the world will be when something like online distribution takes off.
 

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