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Nevill

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Because a fellow with a giant pig head is totally inconspicuous and beyond suspicion.
 

treave

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No, because it links your troublesome reputation as Zhang Jue's disciple to the reputation of Man Tiger Pig. You compartmentalize your identity, exaggerate the Man Tiger Pig @ Guan Shide persona greatly as a distraction, and thus make it easier for you to move about in other ways.
 

Baltika9

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Heh, sounds like something the Snake/Rat Adjutant would excel at. Not saying it's impossible for us, but it will be more difficult. I dunno, juggling personas seems redundant to me, why do that when we can play to Jing's talents with direct trolling and theatrics?
I've just had a thought: what would the Tsundrabbit turn out like under Zhang's tutelage?
 

Nevill

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I have another, how would Zhang turn out when forced to deal with a tsundere apprentice on a daily basis?
 

treave

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As far as this tournament arc is concerned, the majority of the discussion has inevitably revolved around not playing to his skills and instead focusing overwhelmingly on complex subterfuge and misdirection and plotting and paranoia. That's a headache... you guys absolutely love to plot and will have fun with it, but don't want to pick a character that knows how to plot.

I have another, how would Zhang turn out when forced to deal with a tsundere apprentice on a daily basis?

Xu Jing is already tsundere, though.
 

Baltika9

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As far as this tournament arc is concerned, the majority of the discussion has inevitably revolved around not playing to his skills and instead focusing overwhelmingly on complex subterfuge and misdirection and plotting and paranoia.
And we're already yanking at our stifling chains. Let Xu Jing go free and revel in being himself!
600px-Doomrider_NANANANANA.png

That's a headache... you guys absolutely love to plot and will have fun with it, but don't want to pick a character that knows how to plot.
Codex gonna codex, what can you do? :M
Honestly though, I had enough of this superspy acting.
 
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Nevill

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treave said:
Xu Jing is already tsundere, though.
How come? I've noticed signs of this with Qilin, but he is a very mild case. Could have passed for a sarcastic misanthrope.

When will we get a peek at his dere-dere side?!

Baltika9 said:
Honestly though, I had enough of this superspy acting.
There is never enough superspy acting.
"Jing. Xu Jing."
 

Baltika9

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Here's he thing, though, we're not James Bond, but a more Rambo-ish stealthy warrior with a good head on his shoulders and good social skills. We're badass at fighting and overcoming impossible odds, even with our shit luck, and charming people, but we're equally as bad at elaborate planning and espionage. The character's formative years are pretty much through, and we didn't become either Shulgi or Aodh, so I think it will be extremely difficult to change his base personality. I'm sure we can still do it by voting for such paths, but Jing isn't suited to skullduggery at all. And honestly, if we wanted that, we should have stayed at the palace and received Han Gestapo training.
However, that why we have our speech and charisma, we can make others want to do it for us, "leadership" it's called.
:smug:
 

treave

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When will we get a peek at his dere-dere side?!

It's mild because he's not as noticeably bipolar as Tsundrabbit would have been, but he's been spoiling Cao'er at least. Towards Qilin, though... uh, maybe when things take a turn for the worse and shit hits the fan.

Not sure if anyone can be tsundere towards Zhang Jue.
 

Nevill

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Baltika9 said:
but we're equally as bad at elaborate planning and espionage.
What are you talking about?
Let's face it, realistic assessment of situations, intricate planning and a level head arent't among Jing's virtues. He's a very capable fighter, improviser and a talented sneak, yeah, but intricate spymaster-level planning isn't his strong suit; he's the type to rush in and figure shit out on the spot.
He's not, which is why his current plan consists of:

1. Find people in black by following their possible targets.
2. Beat up people in black.
3. Get answers.
This is totally a mastermind-level planning.

I had never facepalmed so hard before as when I read this. 'Dat moment when you realize that 7 INT went strictly into combat smarts, and he still has zero common sense.

Towards Qilin, though... uh, maybe when things take a turn for the worse and shit hits the fan.
I hope Jing changes his tune. The girl was nothing but friendly and helpful - she saved our arm, she didn't let us slum in the streets (and she didn't make us owe her a favor, settling for the money), she didn't let us roam the city in search of trouble when we were wounded, and she even took care of our social life and brought our broteam together. Neglecting her because of her - ahem - rather playful nature and certain incidents in the past does not become Jing much.

Not sure if anyone can be tsundere towards Zhang Jue.
CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!
 

Baltika9

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Not sure if anyone can be tsundere towards Zhang Jue.
'Stupid Master, taking me away from my only friends to make me the best martial artist of my generation (and he really did) ...it's not that I like you or anything.' We should totally throw a hissy fit if he decides to take on a new apprentice, "How dare you? I thought we had something special! Well fine, you can have your new student, but don't ever expect to hear from me again! It's not like ever liked you in the first place. <sniff>"
Speaking of which, is it possible for us to grow a beard resembling his at our age? Or at least buy a fake one? Should be perfect for trolling the sectarians even more.
 

Esquilax

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He is first and foremost Rambo a warrior. Besides which, the challenge must be made from our Xu Jing, disciple of Zhang Jue, persona, so B1 loses us all our claims to fame we've gotten in this tournament unless we want to reveal the truth sometime later and suddenly make ourselves the big fat liar whose word isn't worth a damned thing, and the Committee a bunch of white-robed saints. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

I don't think that's true. We're revealing ourselves later on as Zhang Jue's apprentice anyways, our reputation will nosedive regardless. Anyone will look like a white-robed saint compared to us at that point, so if say, Bai Jiutian figures out that we're actually Guan Shide/Man Tiger Pig once we challenge the Huashan, so what? At that point, the damage will already have been done to the committee's reputation and the Frathouse will have the pretext to launch an investigation into the matter. As Zhang's apprentice, there are far worse things in the world that we could look like than a liar; lying and competing under an alias in this competition is frowned upon, but not disallowed. So if we roll up into the Huashan school and Bai Jiutian recalls that we're the same person he's met before, we can just say "Yep! You got me. I went there to make a mockery of the tournament, and now I'm challenging your school."

So I think this argument that suddenly we'll ruin everything several months down the line when we fight the Huashan is unfounded, because by that point the connection between the committee and the WiB will have been discovered. As for A2, we still might have to fight Yu Gan down the line. Unlike the tournament, this challenge is presented a matter of personal honor. I'd prefer to get this crap out of the way with B1, and get some extra experience with the Huashan style on top of it.

Don't underestimate Bai Jiutian's ability to take the crowd away from us. His fellow Huashan has challenged us, and he'll definitely take advantage of the opportunity that revealing our true identity and refusing the challenge will create. I doubt that it'll start a riot, but it'll certainly allow him to take center stage and bask in the attention that he so craves. B1 will infuriate him endlessly: he knows what we look like, he knows that we're lying, he knows our alias, but he can't prove shit. And if he does try to say anything, we can spin it as him being jealous of our skills. "My prelim fight was the same person you had faced in the finals last year! I'm ten times the fighter that you ever were!" To me, this dilemma is all about winning the crowd, and B1 does that the best, by far.

As for the argument about losing our progress, it really is not that big a deal. Our experience with the nuns will allow us to beat both of them at the same time once we pick Cao'er up from Emei and Nie Mudan is the least of our problems when it comes to the Huashan. Guo Fu is a problem, I will admit, but we have the Chuzhan Fist to counter him should he join the Wudang as you have suggested. It's important to note that we took the hardest and least efficient method of dealing with his Jinzhongzhao in the fight, but now we're aware of other things that we can do. In forgoing our claim and the final of the tournament, we can strike a huge blow to the conspiracy.
 
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treave

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I really wouldn't be too worried about repeat fights if I were you guys.

After all, such a scenario would be all too common:

You beat the guy.
The guy is unhappy.
He trains and comes back for a rematch next month.

What, are you guys going to run from any rematches until the year is out? :lol: How does that help you build your reputation as 'the strongest'? And to be fair, you will do exactly the same should you lose, so you can't expect all of them to shut up and take their loss that easily either. This means how you win will be important. Another thing to bear in mind is that your victories thus far have been mostly via ring-out. There is no such rule in an actual challenge - you'll have to fight until your opponent submits there.
 

Nevill

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treave said:
What, are you guys going to run from any rematches until the year is out?
We would be on the move constantly. They'd have to catch us first to have a rematch. :P
 

treave

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Well, they can just send out the word that they're looking for one, you should show up at a certain place at a certain time, or be called chicken for the rest of your life. You wouldn't shy away from this tactic if you need to pin them down, and neither will they. Either that or you show up at the last of the Eight Sects' and find everyone already there, lining up to take their last shot at you before you successfully complete the tour. :lol:

A year is a long time to predict successfully, so the main focus of any discussion should be on the immediate aftermath of the choices (i.e. what it could mean for the tournament and for the conspiracy in Luoyang) rather than the challenges. After all, the situation can easily change in the future.
 

Nevill

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Well, they can just send out the word that they're looking for one, you should show up at a certain place at a certain time, or be called chicken for the rest of your life.
And now the following scene captivates my mind: Jing stands over the map of China with a dozen of pins sticking out of it. "I need to be in Chang'an no later than the next week for a rematch with Wu Tong, then I have to travel to Xiangyang to catch up with Xuzhan, and three days later I have an appointment scheduled with Nie Shuixian. And I need to check up on Emei sometime in between. Damn, I should have hired a logistician to manage all this stuff."
 

Esquilax

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And that logistician would be the Scholar we must recruit. So be it.

Speaking of Scholarbro, I wonder what he's up to. He was last headed to Yuhua Hall, but that was ages ago, when we had met the Southern Maniac. Maybe he returned to Luoying Manor at some point, so Lady Ji could give us some clues.

treave, if we completely dominate an opponent for all to see and it isn't even close, do they have grounds for a rematch? If, for example, we go to Emei and beat Yifang and Yiling at the same time in a lopsided manner, then they can't cry for a rematch because we've just won decisively, right? From watching lots of boxing and MMA, if a champion beats an opponent soundly, there generally isn't a rematch afterwards.

We would be on the move constantly. They'd have to catch us first to have a rematch. :P

A true champ doesn't duck anybody.

Look bros, these people want to draw us out, and we can't let them do it. Let's turn the tables on the committee and make them look like the real villains here. The Shaolin technique manual is tempting, I'll admit, but this tournament is a sideshow. We have an opportunity here to make our accusers look like fools and to sabotage whatever plans the WiB had here, we must take advantage of it. With no one around to be their scapegoat - except Azira, of course - the committee will be in trouble because they just allowed a fight to happen against a fighter who had denied their crazy accusations.
 

asxetos

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If we beat them once infront of witnesses that will be enough for Zhang, so i doubt we have to fight them again if they ask for rematch.
 

TOME

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We also must buy pig masks for Guo Fu and the sword saint's disciple so that MTP/ZJ's apprentice can deal with all challengers no matter how far apart they are.
 

treave

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They can always call for a rematch, but no one will blame you for putting them low on your list if you utterly stomped them the first time around and don't want to waste your time. As in, they lose the right to summon you to a fight as equals, they'll have to come to you seeking one.

Just like how people seek Zhang out for fights.

But most of the time if you stomp them that badly they know better than to try again and humiliate their school a second, third or fourth time. Most of the masters won't let them do it either, unless they're confident with a new tactic.

If we beat them once infront of witnesses that will be enough for Zhang, so i doubt we have to fight them again if they ask for rematch.

Not if they claim they have some super duper technique that'll beat you this time, they swear! Sure, do it enough times and they lose the benefit of the doubt, but remember that your goal is to be acknowledged as the strongest. You need to absolutely stake your claim to that.

Of course the simplest way to do it is to do the unprecedented and take them all on at once. Beat them in such an overwhelming fashion and everyone will recognize you as the best. No need to worry about what other people think then, there can be no more doubt about your strength if you succeed at it.
 

TOME

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If we don't come out of the closet now, the WIBs can continue their plans to ruin our name. We might end up in a situation where can't ever declare ourselves without the fear of manhunt.
 

Esquilax

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Just like how people seek Zhang out for fights.

People seek Zhang out for fights? Dear God, why would someone do such a thing?

If we beat them once infront of witnesses that will be enough for Zhang, so i doubt we have to fight them again if they ask for rematch.

This just isn't how the fight game works - you get no respect by ducking people. Look at the manner in which we won: out of all of our fights, Guo Fu was the only guy that we beat fair-and-square. We beat the Emei nuns by ring-out, and we beat Nie Mudan by disrobing. We're going to visit these schools in the future anyways - Emei so we can get Cao'er, Huashan to fight Nie Shiuxian and Bai Jiutian - so they will likely challenge us due to the tricks we played during the tournament.

If we don't come out of the closet now, the WIBs can continue their plans to ruin our name. We might end up in a situation where can't ever declare ourselves without the fear of manhunt.

That might make sense for B2, but how are they going to use us as a scapegoat if we begin to unravel the conspiracy? The whole point of denying our identity in B1 would be to give the Frathouse grounds to investigate the committee; ostensibly for allowing the fight to happen, but in reality so that they can determine why there are committee members that want to create a rift between the orthodox sects by using Zhang as a scapegoat.

Remember, in B1, we have the moral high ground. We're the lovable, highly entertaining fighter who is defending himself from slanderous accusations in front of a public audience, while the committee members are a bunch of sore losers who are acting irresponsibly by allowing a fight to occur. A fighter can get kicked out of their sect for starting a fight outside of the tournament, and it stands to reason that a committee member would be in equally deep shit for turning a blind eye to it in favour of some sort of witch hunt.
 

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