[LP CYOA] 傳

[Baltika9]

The 100 man fight ensured there's no official complaint against the pirates (just us)

Except piracy, you mean, the thing that started this whole debacle in the first place?

The navy wasn't called in then. There is no additional incentive for them to be called in now. To top it off, the prefect is getting paid to not send the navy after them.

Alright, but the piracy problem isn't really solved. Once they run out of foodstuffs and money, what are they going to do then? How can we guarantee Shun's arrival and aid before that happens and they're back to square one?

... except that the WiB were trying to have him cause another bloodbath of orthodox pugilists, not foreign devil pirates. Him slaughtering the former would piss off the orthodox world, him slaughtering the latter wouldn't really piss off much of anyone except for the people who voted to negotiate and nonsense.

If anything, that will give people less reason to come after our Master. Win-win is what it is.

 

[Absinthe]

Alright, but the piracy problem isn't really solved. Once they run out of foodstuffs and money, what are they going to do then? How can we guarantee Shun's arrival and aid before that happens and they're back to square one?

We can't. We can only hope Shun gets the message and intervenes swiftly, which he should be capable of doing. I still find this lower risk than sending them over to Zhang Jue's place and hoping nothing will come of it. Also, it will take them weeks to relocate. Who's to say they wont starve while they try to get there? And who's to say the wildlife in Zhang Jue's island won't kill them? And who's to say Zhang Jue himself won't kill them? And if none of the above happens, what about Shun? What if Zhang Jue takes an interest in him?

If anything, that will give people less reason to come after our Master. Win-win is what it is.

For all we know, Zhang Jue could decide he needs to have a word with us and goodbye 1 year break.

 

[Anabanana]

You don't think he'll attack them, he isn't an indiscriminate killer. You wouldn't have suggested it if you think he'd certainly slaughter them. However, you wouldn't claim to be entirely sure about the actions he'd take either. If he doesn't attack he's likely to leave them alone, but he might act in other ways that you can't predict.

Re: wildlife

There's game for them to hunt, I count that as a plus.

I doubt that Jing would consider relocating them if their supplies won't last them the trip.

I think this decision hinges on precisely how long it'll take for Shun to reach them; if we knew for sure that he could reach them before their supplies run out, then A would be the best choice. The problem is,

3. You attempt to get into contact with the Crown Prince. You know for a fact that he does not spend all of his time in Chang’an; the time of the year seems right for him to embark on one of the Imperial Southern Inspections. You have little chance of crossing paths with him, but you could bribe a beggar to convey a message in your mutual code – Shun is smart enough to handle the rest on his own. He will be keen on recruiting the Minamoto, but you are also certain that he will not want any other organizations getting a whiff of this; that means that you will not be able to seek help for the Minamoto from any other group.

Nothing about this is certain. Note "attempt" and "the time... seems right". Especially since:

the Prince tends to do his inspections incognito.

Which means that it's questionable whether you'll manage to contact him at all, in which case you really need to have something sustainable going on in case the contact fails or takes too long. The Zhang Jue-Shun combo is definitely the high risk high reward option. If you want to play it safe and not send them to Maniac Island, then you should be looking into getting help from Yuhua Hall or bribing the prefect, but both of those seem pretty half-assed solutions, not to mention that this will deny Shun his own personal team of elite ninja pirates.

 

[Baltika9]

For all we know, Zhang Jue could decide he needs to have a word with us and goodbye 1 year break.

That would actually be pretty nice. We get to do safer things that have less likelihood of killing us, like punching tigers in the face, and we get to be there when Shun arrives so that dumb shit doesn't happen to him. Or does, depends on how we're feeling at the moment.

 

[Tigranes]

Flip to A3BC, Absinthe has a good point; the WiB conspiracy against ZJ is still alive and that is a bigger danger here. If necessary I'd rather have the pirates perish / driven out than help that conspiracy come true. And no, there's no chance the navy will come, literally everything we know shows they won't.

 

[Baltika9]

From the angle in that the WiBs can spin the situation around and say "The Southern Maniac is harboring pirates!", I suppose that is a possibility if Shun doesn't react in time. There's a "however" here: our Master can take on a lot of people by himself, now throw in the Ninja Master and the trained Minamoto retainers and bowmen. Nothing short of the Imperial Army or a huge pugilistic alliance could take his island at that point, and even then he'd stand a rather large chance of defeating them and, best of all, claim self defense for being assaulted in his own home.

 

[Grimgravy]

A3 A C

 

[Zero Credibility]

Hmm. It's true that by beating up the pugilist strike force and now relocating the pirates to the Maniac island we could be doing WiB a favor. But. Their plan to stage an attack against the Maniac (as explained by guys that are better at this than Jing is) was just to provoke enough outrage against him to involve the grandmasters, the only people that can take him down (and that are on our side). Since both the grandmasters and the sects are now and for the next 6 months or so very, very busy preparing for the showdown with the fire cult, I don't think we have anything to fear on this front at least until then. And then they also have to find out that where the pirates relocated in the first place. They can suspect when they find this island empty, but they can't know for sure where they went until they find them on the Maniac's island and I'm guessing that place doesn't get many visitors. If we tell the pirates to keep their heads down we could keep their location there a secret, for a while at least. Hopefully buying enough time for the Prince to make a political solution, possibly removing them from the island and putting them somewhere safer where they can be of use to him as well.

 

[treave]

Okay, so we've got a situation in which the Court utilized a third party to deal with a situation that they couldn't involve themselves in for fear of diplomatic incident (and because they're ineffectual and stretched thin).

A bit of a misunderstanding here. A diplomatic incident would be if they were to publicly aid the Minamoto by giving them a way to make a proper living, which makes it look like they are taking sides against the current rulers of Nippon. Killing them for crimes of piracy won't make anyone bat an eyelash, and is, in fact, the preferred resolution for the Nippon government.

Of course, given that the Tang are the 300-pound gorilla in the room they can offend whoever they want and get away with it... if they are united, that is. When factions come into play the support of a foreign government can be useful. Court politics is too complex for you to fully grasp from outside the capital, without knowing who is in the game and why, but from their actions, it is possible to get some inkling of what is going on.

 

[Baltika9]

Civil War and domestic insurrection. Great, just what we need.

 

[treave]

Uh, not sure how you get to that from what I said. It doesn't need to be a war for foreign support to be useful. It's not like Japan can provide enough military support to tip the balance in a full blown war, given their own troubles. It's things like favorable trade status, higher tribute etc. Other benefits may not be tangible, but also useful in terms of 'face'. Anyway it's nothing you need to be really concerned with.

 

[Baltika9]

Since this whole thing got started in the Imperial palace, obviously someone is trying to court the Taira Clan "under the table," which means it isn't the main ruling body who could do so openly. Which is probably why this faction gave the pugilists notice that they would really like if the pirates would be suddenly dealt with in a way that couldn't be traced to them, and didn't just call in the Army and Navy.
Which means they are gathering private/factional power. Maybe it's cynicism speaking, but I always count on politicians and nobles to be one of two types: people that mostly try to advance the cause of the government and adhere to the "party line," and people that generally try to advance their own power and standing.

 

[Absinthe]

Flipping to A3AC. Tiger Scholar Adjutant needs to know what's going on more than he needs artistic skill. Lets cover essentials first.

 

[TOME]

B3BB - stat boost would be awesome but i'm banking on that with stealth we can "borrow" all the manuals we want

 

[Omicron]

A3AB

 

[Elfberserker]

I am also flipping A3AC

 

[Nevill]

Tally as of 24.11.13 06:15 GMT:

ERYFKRAD x3BA>x3BB
Anabanana B3BB
Azira B3AB
Ifeex B3AC
Jester B1AC
a bear named spigot B3BA
Ganymede A3AA
asxetos B3AC
Lambchop19 B3BB
Rex Feral B3BC
Esquilax B3AB
Zero Credibility B3AC
Elfberserker A3AB
Kipeci B3AB
Kashmir Slippers A3AC
XenomorphII B3BC
Nevill B3AB
The Brazilian Slaughter A3AB
Bloodshifter B3AA
Tigranes A3BC
Baltika9 B3AC
Stygian Lurker B3BB
Absinthe A3AC
ScubaV A3BA
Grimgravy A3AC
TOME B3BB
Omicron A3AB
kazgar B3AC
Smashing Axe B2BB > B2BC

1) ERYFKRAD's vote not counted
A3 - 9
B1 - 1
B2 - 1
B3 - 17

2)
A - 18
B - 11

3) Numbers in the brackets denote flops.
A - 5 (4)
B - 12 (13)
C - 12

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Flopping my option 3 vote to B!

Art is a waste of time for Jing's personality. At the very least, scholarly knowledge might help us at the mansion, though I'd prefer sleight of hand or traps...

edit: honestly, why are there so many votes for art?
edit: ah, that quote on the first page... Ok, makes a bit of sense. Still, I'm hoping SK will lead to a minor loredump too. Have to keep the lorefags happy or they'll want to waste our precious mansion questions on chinese history again. It will give us a better understanding of the world and nudge Jing toward critical thinking.

 

[TOME]

art will help decipher manuals. Why so many votes for C when we have our scholarbro?

 

[Nevill]

I am also flipping A3AC

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

We have the basics covered by both Yu and the guys at Luoying Manor. Jing will never be a politician, a man of intrigue; we might want to concentrate on what Jing knows best - the martial arts. And Artistic Skill is crucial for that, because the intricately written manuals is how the knowledge is passed from generation to generation these days. What use are they if we can read them, but can't understand them properly?

Art is a waste of time for Jing's personality. At the very least, scholarly knowledge might help us at the mansion

Schooling is a much bigger waste. He barely has patience to sit through loredumps, he is certainly not interested enough in these matters. At least there is an indirect relationship between the calligraphy and the martial arts.

And the mansion appreciates the arts equally. Where did people get the impression that there were only historians there?

edit: honestly, why are there so many votes for art?
edit: ah, that quote on the first page... Ok, makes a bit of sense..

Not only that. I have quoted the relevant part before:

From your limited understanding, many martial arts manuals were usually well-illustrated and written poetically - you needed to comprehend the meaning of the couplets to fully unlock the potential in the moves of the technique.

 

[Kashmir Slippers]

I think that scholarly knowledge can help us the most in the long run. If/when we can go back to the palace and rejoin the Prince, we could turn into a somewhat useful ally if we have more book smarts. We could advise him on tactics or governance as treave said. Artistic ability is cool, and I wouldn't mind it that much, but I don't see it helping us all that much.

I think we also need to remember that we are responsible for shaping Jing. We have already made a lot of decisions about his personality, but since this is in interactive LP, we can force him to make decisions, and his personality can change based upon what we make him do, so "Jing wouldn't like studying" doesn't really hit me as all that convincing of a reason. Even the Southern Maniac has a lot of books, and appears to be at least somewhat well read and intelligent.

 

[Esquilax]

Still, I'm hoping SK will lead to a minor loredump too. Have to keep the lorefags happy or they'll want to waste our precious mansion questions on chinese history again.

That's a rather silly reason, and it seems like a waste of an opportunity if all you're getting is a minor loredump in return. Anyways, I'm pretty sure that some techniques also depend on the user having a lot of Scholarly Knowledge (i.e. knowing and understanding the art of war), but Artistic Skill seems to give us even more in that regard:

Since we're talking about manuals, you will find many manuals that are actually written in poetry with few illustrations to speak of - usually the students learn by watching the physical movements of the master and relating them to the poetry in the manual in order to understand the true essence of the technique. Only by getting into the proper mindset as described in the poems can your body execute the moves perfectly. Of course, if you don't know the physical actions of the moves in the first place it would be difficult to learn the technique, but talented martial artists can derive their own movements from the principles described in the manuals and achieve a similar effect to a conventional/orthodox practitioner.

Considering that our actions with the Minamoto Clan boosted our rep with Luoying Manor by +10, I'd say that we're in a great position to visit and gather a few books that we might actually make use of with Art 4 skill. Perhaps we can find something to refine the Perception technique further, or something else. In any case, investing in Artistic Skill seems like a great chance to take advantage of our improved rep with Luoying and our status as a fellow. It's really the best way to learn more techniques while we're still really hurt.

I think that scholarly knowledge can help us the most in the long run. If/when we can go back to the palace and rejoin the Prince, we could turn into a somewhat useful ally if we have more book smarts. We could advise him on tactics or governance as treave said. Artistic ability is cool, and I wouldn't mind it that much, but I don't see it helping us all that much.

I think we also need to remember that we are responsible for shaping Jing. We have already made a lot of decisions about his personality, but since this is in interactive LP, we can force him to make decisions, and his personality can change based upon what we make him do, so "Jing wouldn't like studying" doesn't really hit me as all that convincing of a reason. Even the Southern Maniac has a lot of books, and appears to be at least somewhat well read and intelligent.

Yeah, with the way we've been going, we aren't going to be pardoned anytime soon. Even if Shun ascends to the throne tomorrow, a move like that would earn him a lot of enemies in Court, even with his overall brilliance and political savvy. Sure, we might do something in the future that might change their opinion of us, but right now it looks like wishful thinking. We are in a much better position to help the Prince by infiltrating and gaining respect amongst the worst of the worst in the pugilistic world, like the Black Dragon Society. We'll use our bad rep to help our bro and be the hero that China deserves. Because we can take it.

Totally agree with you about the argument that it isn't in-character doesn't make much sense, though. Obviously if the choice is there, Jing has some interest in taking that course of action. And yes, despite Zhang's brutality, he is still a fellow at Luoying Manor, and likely a well-read guy who is pretty intelligent. Wouldn't be surprised if he refined aspects of the Shouwang Claws by looking through poetic martial arts manuals.

 

[Baltika9]

I think that scholarly knowledge can help us the most in the long run. If/when we can go back to the palace and rejoin the Prince, we could turn into a somewhat useful ally if we have more book smarts. We could advise him on tactics or governance as treave said. Artistic ability is cool, and I wouldn't mind it that much, but I don't see it helping us all that much.

Out of your post, I disagree with this. For one, Shun has the "gifted as fuck" trait and he has also been preparing himself for the throne, so I doubt our asskicker Jing would do a better job of advising him.

But the possibility of going back to the palace is so far away, and the decisoons between then and now may change ours and Jing's opinions so much, that it really shouldn't be the focus of the debate. Way too long-term.

As I see it, Kagemi+Artistic will give us a more trollish and technique focused character with better survivability in the short term; while Reikan+Scholarly will give us a more tactics-focused character with a broader base of general knowledge that is rather useless in Martial Arts. Because, seriously, how does math or commerce apply to techniques? The only thing we can apply to fighting is the "Art of War" aspect of it.

 

[Anabanana]

If we're aiming to become a martial arts master, then Artistic Ability is the way to go. It'll allow us to understand the higher level manuals that are written in poetry. Remember how Emei's leader gave us a bit of poetry that we had to interpret in order to figure out how to counter a certain Emei move?

It seems to me that this is especially important for an unorthodox fighter like Jing; we need to be able to interpret and understand whatever manuals we happen to get our hands on, because we don't have the luxury of having a master who will patiently explain stuff to us.

 

[Nevill]

And yes, despite Zhang's brutality, he is still a fellow at Luoying Manor, and likely a well-read guy who is pretty intelligent.

I wonder what kind of books the Maniac reads.

Maybe he is secretly a romance novel fan.