Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

That's a difference of degree rather than of kind IMO

 

[Lancehead]

The assumption is that much like there are degrees of output, there are degrees of player input, such as spending a resource to get a better success or avoid a worse failure. That certainly changes how players play the game, so it's not a mere difference of degree.

 

[hiver]

Its neither.

There should not be any such single general, global systemic solution forced on everything. Different measures such as those should be applied as the situation demands or common sense dictates - depending on the setup of each situation and any further consequences a dev wants to affect by that situation, or a quest, mission, whatever.

There is no extreme binary solution.

 

[Lhynn]

Well, tbh dialogue should be interesting to read. mini games distract you from it, dialogue checks make you too aware of them if they are displayed, stealing away the relevance and attention you should be giving to the dialogue itself. This is why showing thresholds or rolls, or anything really, is stupid at its very core, it is a flawed concept that undermines dialogue to make room for rpg elements when they are not needed. And they are crutches for subpar dialogue to boot.

 

[Roguey]

It's not really about unpredictability, but it shouldn't be a binary "can I or can't I?" but should be "different grades of success and failure". Probability can be a means to achieving that.

When it comes to locked containers or doors or safes or toasters you either open them and get the things or you don't.

 

[Excidium]

It's not really about unpredictability, but it shouldn't be a binary "can I or can't I?" but should be "different grades of success and failure". Probability can be a means to achieving that.

When it comes to locked containers or doors or safes or toasters you either open them and get the things or you don't.

Because time and noise are two things that don't exist in cRPGs.

 

[Roguey]

Because time and noise are two things that don't exist in cRPGs.

Who gives a damn about either of those things?

 

[Excidium]

Because time and noise are two things that don't exist in cRPGs.

Who gives a damn about either of those things?

Not CRPG designers.

 

[Monad]

I don't know if rpg elements aren't "needed" in dialogue at all...

 

[Roguey]

And with good reason too. When core gameplay is about killing things "oh no you might get attacked!" isn't much of a threat.

 

[Excidium]

Because those things aren't much of a threat.

 

[Roguey]

Nor will they ever be. If I'm opening up locked containers, chances are I've already slaughtered every living thing within sight so how much noise I make or how many abstracted minutes it takes is irrelevant.

 

[Excidium]

Because you're playing a shitty CRPG.

 

[Excidium]

The issue here is that people are conflating unpredictability-generating mechanics and content-unlocking mechanics.

When you face a speech or skill check, it's usually not a question of "what unpredictable thing will happen here?" but rather a question of "can I or can't I do this?". That's not a question that needs a random factor in its answer.

That's not the important question though. Characters can always do something in an RPG.

The important question in an RPG is "should I or shouldn't I do this?". It makes you consider your character's abilities, the circumstances and possible outcomes, and that's a question that needs a random factor in its answer. Because while the circumstances are generally represented by static modifiers that makes the task easier or harder, they can be influenced by the player, but a random factor adds an aspect that is out of the player's control and makes you consider the risk and outcomes with more care. Shit might happen.

 

[Infinitron]

Because while the circumstances are generally represented by static modifiers that makes the task easier or harder, they can be influenced by the player, but a random factor adds an aspect that is out of the player's control and makes you consider the risk and outcomes with more care. Shit might happen.

Yeah well, like I said, the CRPG genre as we know it today just isn't that full of shit.

 

[tuluse]

Nor will they ever be. If I'm opening up locked containers, chances are I've already slaughtered every living thing within sight so how much noise I make or how many abstracted minutes it takes is irrelevant.

It could be a situation where you don't want to kill things. Like the faction you're siding with.

It would be interesting if cRPGs included the equivalent of taking a 20 from 3E.

 

[cutterjohn]

These MOTHERFUCKERS CAN SUCK MY FUCKING COCK!

Doing KS, then selling on Steam for beta access while we poor souls who LONG ago did KS are SHAFTED?! FUCK THESE TWATS!

 

[Excidium]

These MOTHERFUCKERS CAN SUCK MY FUCKING COCK!

Doing KS, then selling on Steam for beta access while we poor souls who LONG ago did KS are SHAFTED?! FUCK THESE TWATS!

HELL YEAH back to normal schedule.

 

[Roguey]

Nor will they ever be. If I'm opening up locked containers, chances are I've already slaughtered every living thing within sight so how much noise I make or how many abstracted minutes it takes is irrelevant.

It could be a situation where you don't want to kill things. Like the faction you're siding with.

It would be interesting if cRPGs included the equivalent of taking a 20 from 3E.

Sounds like a bad mechanic if it's only applicable to very-specific situations and just a hassle otherwise.

Plus if there's randomization there, just reload until you're silent/quick enough. Double pointless.

 

[DeepOcean]

These MOTHERFUCKERS CAN SUCK MY FUCKING COCK!

Doing KS, then selling on Steam for beta access while we poor souls who LONG ago did KS are SHAFTED?! FUCK THESE TWATS!

Either way, paying to be a beta tester of someone is to be shafted by definition.

 

[Daedalos]

These MOTHERFUCKERS CAN SUCK MY FUCKING COCK!

Doing KS, then selling on Steam for beta access while we poor souls who LONG ago did KS are SHAFTED?! FUCK THESE TWATS!

Art thou upset, Brother?

 

[cutterjohn]

These MOTHERFUCKERS CAN SUCK MY FUCKING COCK!

Doing KS, then selling on Steam for beta access while we poor souls who LONG ago did KS are SHAFTED?! FUCK THESE TWATS!

Art thou upset, Brother?

Kinda, but *sssshhhh* TB *brutally* H* I really don't give a shit as I'd probably not play this beta much as I'd MUCH prefer just to play the finished game, but I do feel like others backstabbed by this ploy.

 

[veryalien]

These MOTHERFUCKERS CAN SUCK MY FUCKING COCK!

Doing KS, then selling on Steam for beta access while we poor souls who LONG ago did KS are SHAFTED?! FUCK THESE TWATS!

You can upgrade for $10...

 

[Apexeon]

These MOTHERFUCKERS CAN SUCK MY FUCKING COCK!

Doing KS, then selling on Steam for beta access while we poor souls who LONG ago did KS are SHAFTED?! FUCK THESE TWATS!

Art thou upset, Brother?

Kinda, but *sssshhhh* TB *brutally* H* I really don't give a shit as I'd probably not play this beta much as I'd MUCH prefer just to play the finished game, but I do feel like others backstabbed by this ploy.

Nothing wrong with a desperate cash grab to fund tides of numenera, oh **** I mean WL2 cough cough I mean the trip to Rio with the Science team.

 

[DragoFireheart]

games would benefit from plutocrat runs.

Aren't there enough jRPGs where you get filthy rich?