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a cut of domestic sheep prime

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Shun is a solid bro. I want to help him, but on the other hand, I don't want the codex to kill him.
ranceD.png

:rancehmm:
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
I wonder how this task ties into our fate?

What can one person accomplish in this cauldron of chaos?

Overthrow and replace the Son of Heaven, who has lost his mandate to rule?
...
Shun looks exasperated as he grabs you by the shoulders. “I have told you this many times, Jing. You are not cursed with bad luck. All you are is a person who has encountered misfortune, and there is no evidence that will happen till the day you die. You are focusing overwhelmingly on the bad things that happen to you and not the good - that is why you think your luck is poor. Superstitious nonsense is going to drag our country into the grave, and I don’t need that from you of all people.”

“Wait, you don’t believe in the gods or ghosts, then?” you grin. You know he is deathly scared of ghosts.

“Well, no. I mean, I do believe in gods, and ghosts. But I don’t believe that fate controls us. We are what we make of ourselves,” mutters Shun. “I would rather work the fields than pray to the Jade Emperor for good fortune. Anyway, we are meandering from the point. Shut up and listen for a bit, Jing.”
...
As for the misfortune of your birth, the only thing they could determine was that the Taisha star shone upon you. You would bring about the downfall of the order of Heaven, sharing your misfortune with the entire country, but the scholars did not know enough to go into specifics. They said that they could be easily wrong about their readings; they were scholars after all, and not astrologers.

Lady Ji had appeared to you shortly before you left and recommended in her mysterious manner that you seek out the All-Seeing Astrologer, Hua Jin, if you desired to know your destiny. She does not know where he is now; according to her, it would be fate if you found him, and fate if you didn’t.

I have a bad feeling about this. Shun, as utterly brilliant and gifted as he is, has one tragic flaw, which seems to be that he's completely rooted in pragmatism. He has all of these great contingency plans set up, but you can't account for the whims of fate so easily. Even if we do manage to pull this mission off successfully, I suspect that there are going to be disastrous, unintended consequences regardless.

But I don't see much alternative either. Prince Shun will make an amazing Emperor, and the best chance to keep the country stable is to commit patricide. I don't see things turning out well regardless of what we do, but I suppose you can't fight fate, can you?

B
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
I certainly have no moral qualms about this. But you'd have to admit, patricide is the lowest you can get. It is almost admirable how far Shun is willing to go for the sake of the country.

I am not exactly talking about morality here. It's just that the motivations that drive Jing and Shun are different. I can see Shun sacrificing a single person, even a friend, in a manner Rex Feral described, if it can stabilize the country and save its people the trouble.

If Jing was asked to sacrifise his friends, say, Cao'er, for a similar goal, what would his answer be? 'Fuck, no!', that's what. Our loyalties are much more personal and less abstract.

I can see this as a point of tension between us in the future.

Hey, Augustus wasn't a nice guy either, but he was one hell of an Emperor himself. And I agree, there's no doubt that Prince Shun would sacrifice Jing to stabilize the country. Given his position, that's exactly what he should do.

I guess it would be natural that tension between us would arise; we haven't seen each other in three years, and over the course of that time, we've thrived in different environments and become very different people.
 

Tribute

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
919
I'm pretty sure patricide is basically the #1 "against the Order of Heaven" act (let alone patricide against the Emperor), so assisting in the assassination of the Emperor is bringing down the Order of Heaven in and of itself. Obedience to one's father is a major, major thing in Chinese culture (although admittedly in the pugilistic world this is often replaced by obedience to one's teacher), and the Emperor is the father of the entire country.

Of course, that's not to say the consequences won't be much, much worse on a less metaphorical level, because Jing was born under a "star of disaster" and all.
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Esquilax said:
I have a bad feeling about this. Shun, as utterly brilliant and gifted as he is, has one tragic flaw, which seems to be that he's completely rooted in pragmatism. He has all of these great contingency plans set up, but you can't account for the whims of fate so easily. Even if we do manage to pull this mission off successfully, I suspect that there are going to be disastrous, unintended consequences regardless.
Look at it this way. If Lady Ji have manipulated the events in the alternative timeline to murder the chief of a secret police by our hand and thus allow Shun to assume the control over the secret police and start his own plot - and we know that Lady Ji believes this country to be done for and us a necessary instrument in its downfall - I don't see this ending well.

And she may very well had a hand in the current events. There has to be a reason why the Manor was burned to the ground.

But this is a classic "damned if we do, damned if we don't" situation. The events have already started their course, and it is irreversible now. Might as well try to do what we think is the right, and make the most out of the ride.

Esquilax said:
And I agree, there's no doubt that Prince Shun would sacrifice Jing to stabilize the country. Given his position, that's exactly what he should do.
Which is why I say we should no longer trust him blindly. Shun has his obligations, and we have ours. At this moment, they coincide. That's all there is to it.

When they will no longer coincide... well, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
 

Rex Feral

Prophet
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Messages
1,300
I don't think this is a "damned if we do, damned if we don't" situation. If we go with A, we can practically go to the Fire Cult as I see it. If we don't agree with Shun to commit patricide I don't think he will view us with ill will. And I don't think anybody will stop us, should we decide we want to go somewhere away until this whole shitstorm is over.

Now the situation is available for Shun however, he seems to be damned whatever he does.
 

Fangshi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
1,997
Esquilax said:
I suspect that there are going to be disastrous, unintended consequences regardless.

If it all goes south then we just have to go all Water Margin/Suikoden and set up our own kingdom. What is the worst that can happen? :lol:

Shun has to do whatever he thinks is best for the empire, he does not have our luxury at the end of the day, he can't just run away....

Rex Feral said:
If we go with A, we can practically go to the Fire Cult as I see it.

Well in that case I really should flop to a... hmmm...
 

Nevill

Arcane
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
11,211
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Rex Feral said:
If we go with A, we can practically go to the Fire Cult as I see it. If we don't agree with Shun to commit patricide I don't think he will view us with ill will.
Of course not. And then, as the country inevitably plunges in the chaos of the civil war and our friends get slaughtered in the crossfire, we will keep wondering what may have been, and if we didn't brought it upon ourselves by being indecisive.

Trying to settle this with as little bloodshed as possible, as fast as possible, is in our best interests. Of course, I expect it to backfire spectacularly.

But, hey, what kind of a Legend the story would be if it did always go according to the plan? :)

Fangshi said:
If it all goes south then we just have to go all Water Margin/Suikoden and set up our own kingdom.
I offered to declare the Maniac Island an independent state first!
 

Elfberserker

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 25, 2013
Messages
1,540
B
This will be undoubtedly a risky action, but I am fairly confident that Shu has provided us enough tools to accomplish our mission. He has been prepared at least some time, even if he was surprised by the speed that dear emperor is dying.

The sort of Legend where you get a rollback.
:troll:

Indeed, I wonder will Treave
castrate Jing if we do it third time. Any way voting for our new character as Dog rogue:troll:

 

Kayerts

Arcane
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
883
I wonder how this task ties into our fate?

Fate, inasmuch as it's a factor, tends to imply plot railroading by the powers that be, and as such can't be dodged. Just ask Laius: he duly takes his warning about this terrible son he's fathered, takes preventative steps, and the kid still ends up a motherfucker and he still ends up dead. You can bet he was bitching at his DM about that one. Point is, if we take the warnings about Jing being fated to bring about the downfall of the order of Heaven as valid, we can't do anything about it. We'll either be the noob who botched his role in the assassination and exposed Shun, or the coward who denied Shunbro help in his hour of need and thereby left the assassination in less capable hands.

Anyway, I give Gao Ying & co. decent odds of pulling this one off if we decline. It seems unlikely that Shun will be personally angry at us if we take the mission and succeed, especially since the wording of B suggests our role in the assassination will be indirect. Still, it seems like a high-risk, low-reward proposition.

B for now, because DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR.
 

Grimgravy

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
3,469
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
It would be great if we could pull off the assassination via laxative. Cao'er and Jing should be able to whip up some crazy super-lax of some sort. Then it's a matter of slipping it to comatose emperor and he shit's himself to death. Probably wouldn't be much to trace back to anyone, and such an ignominious death would prove it was time for a change in leadership.

As for the vote, are we best suited to participate in the murder plot or outside it? I don't think the palace is where we will be the most useful. There have got to be many people there who knew us and know we shouldn't be there. Our stealth is good, but not imperial palace good. I honestly think there are better people for that, and we are more useful elsewhere. Like someplace we can help whip up that crazy super-lax.
A
 

Kipeci

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
3,027
Location
Vicksburg
What part of "It is not like you have to strangle the Emperor with your own two hands" in option B's first part implies that we participate that directly in the murder of the Emperor? Shun knows the difficulties that we would face in trying to stealthily assassinate the emperor when we're not allowed on the grounds of the palace on pain of death and aren't terribly skilled at sneaking. As intelligent as he is, I really don't think that he's going to have us operating in the palace. There are webs of intrigue going on, there are surely other parts to play in this assassination in further off places.
 

treave

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
11,370
Codex 2012
The action will be taking place in the palace with B, particularly since the other princes will be rushing there once the news that the Emperor has passed away in his sleep spreads. Sneaking is not mandatory, though.
 

treave

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
11,370
Codex 2012
ERYFKRAD - A
Zero Credibility - B
asxetos - B
Rex Feral - B
Smashing Axe - B
Anabanana - B
Mystiknight - B
Nevill - B
Lambchop19 - A
Jester - B
LWC1996 - B
XenomorphII - B
Kipeci - B
TOME - B
SirArvedeth - B
Tigranes - B
Kashmir Slippers - B
Fangshi - B
Esquilax - B
Stygian Lurker - A
Elfberserker - B
Kayerts - B
m4davis - B
Grimgravy - A

***

Current tally:

A - 4
B - 20

***

Poor Emperor. :cry:
 

Jester

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
1,493
Purge the unclean, or rather what you expect if we didn't even meet that guy? He is not causality of assassination, but lack of PR department.
 

Fangshi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
1,997
Jester said:
but lack of PR department.

Not too surprising really, the closest thing we have had to interaction with the Emperor was when we found out he had ordered us to be mutilated and thrown to the pigs. I would almost be open to killing the guy on principle alone.





As for the whole fate thing who knows, for some reason I am not too worried, depending on the cosmology used it could have a variety of outcomes. I am in the process of rereading Dream of the Red Chamber and one of the passages reminded me of Jing:

"Because there is no place under the clear sky and bright sun for the essence of cruelty and perversity, it congeals in deep caverns and the bowels of the earth. If wafted by winds or pressed upon by clouds, it is thrown into agitation and traces of it may escape. And should these meet the pure essence, good refuses to yield to evil while evil envies good- neither can prevail over the other. This is like wind, rain, lightning and thunder which cannot vanish into thin air or give way but must battle until they are spent. So in order to find some outlet these essences permeate human beings, who come into the world embodying both. Such people fall short of sages or perfect men, but neither are they out-and-out villains... "Your're saying that such people may become princes or thieves, depending on whether they're successful or not.""

And so we have Jing, "perverted", murderous, and often unthinking and yet capable of acts of sublime virtue when given the chance. Perhaps he is fated to end the dynasty but maybe he can also restore it, replace it or remove the need for it altogether, make the right choices and we may still get a "good" ending after all.
 

Tribute

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 18, 2014
Messages
919
It would be great if we could pull off the assassination via laxative. Cao'er and Jing should be able to whip up some crazy super-lax of some sort. Then it's a matter of slipping it to comatose emperor and he shit's himself to death. Probably wouldn't be much to trace back to anyone, and such an ignominious death would prove it was time for a change in leadership.

As for the vote, are we best suited to participate in the murder plot or outside it? I don't think the palace is where we will be the most useful. There have got to be many people there who knew us and know we shouldn't be there. Our stealth is good, but not imperial palace good. I honestly think there are better people for that, and we are more useful elsewhere. Like someplace we can help whip up that crazy super-lax.
A
That is a horrible, horrible way to die. Does he deserve to die from shitting out all of his internal organs?
 

Kipeci

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
3,027
Location
Vicksburg
The action will be taking place in the palace with B, particularly since the other princes will be rushing there once the news that the Emperor has passed away in his sleep spreads. Sneaking is not mandatory, though.
oops
 

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