What's an RPG?! Yes, again.

[Vault Dweller]

From the beginning of time, the mankind has been plagued by three challenges: discovering renewable energy, figuring out what RPGs are, and inventing an effective way to share free porn. Well, most critics agree that the internet solved the third problem, the second one still remains a "mystary". Here is <a href=http://www.armchairarcade.com/neo/node/1123>the latest attempt</a>:

<blockquote>Likewise, how does Dungeon Master compare to the first Wizardry game? Clearly, they have much in common. They bother offer 3-D, first-person perspective, and are set entirely in dungeons. However, Dungeon Master is set in real-time, which makes a significant difference in gameplay (Wizardry is turn-based). Another difference is that Wizardry allows you to create your entire party from scratch, whereas Dungeon Master requires you to select pre-made characters from the Hall of Heroes. Nevertheless, Dungeon Master seems closer to the "CRPG" ideal than Gauntlet. But what exactly is this "ideal?"</blockquote>The answer to this and other questions shall be found in the article. Hopefully.

Thanks, JrK

 

[FrancoTAU]

I like when he sticks to the history telling. Not so much when he gets into the RPG defintion stuff.

 

[sheek]

A CRPG:

-You play (or mainly control) one character who is described by a variety of attributes or skills which can be changed.
-You can interact with the world reasonably freely.
-Consequences (success/failure) of interaction is based on a rule-system (so that luck and your earlier choices determine likelihood of success)
-Therefore for each interaction you must provide you must provide for several possible consequences.

That's basically it. All the games he lists are RPGs but not all good ones.

 

[kingcomrade]

A CRPG:

-It says RPG on the box
-There is a story (a good one but not too complicated)
-There are stats
-There is loot

 

[Lord Chambers]

A CRPG:

-It says RPG on the box
-There is a story (a good one but not too complicated)
-There are stats
-There is loot

But by this definition then many strategy games are RPGs if they have RPG on the box. Like Aerobiz. I think you need to specify that the loot comes from killing things in a dungeon.

 

[Claw]

I haven't read all the way through the article yet - I get this strange urge to stop reading for some reason - but so far I find it of dubious quality.
Putting settings and styles like "Tolkien-like" in the list of semblances struck me as superficial.

 

[Stalagmite]

Something nerds play on computers because of lack of physical strength, excessive overweightedness, overanalytical and intelligent by nature, excessive zits on the face/ugliness, and being a mommas boy have made themselves unable to compete with the tougher, more charismatic athletic, dumber types. So they practice their intelligence on the "RPGS" than brag about their characters on sites like RPGCodex.

Also, a new art of nerdiness is on the approach, something that is definately driving me away from the life (plus also the decline of the "REAL" choices and consiquenses) something sick, degrading, and pathetic:

Furries.

 

[Jasede]

A CRPG:

-You play (or mainly control) one character who is described by a variety of attributes or skills which can be changed.
-You can interact with the world reasonably freely.
-Consequences (success/failure) of interaction is based on a rule-system (so that luck and your earlier choices determine likelihood of success)
-Therefore for each interaction you must provide you must provide for several possible consequences.

That's basically it. All the games he lists are RPGs but not all good ones.

Huh. So Wizardry * are not RPGs for the most part, and neither are many Goldbox games. Oh, RoA also is not a CRPG. Woah, thanks for enlightening me. Your definition isn't broad enough.

I don't think you can or should exclude party-based, combat-focused games of old. Not all RPGs are about choices and consequences. Those Fallout-esque games you seem to mean are just RPGs in the truest sense of the word.

 

[Stalagmite]

I definately favor the RPG with one character that has more choices and consequences, than thos frustratingly boring, slow-paced all action party based ones like the wizardry games. Although I did think Baldur's gate 1 and 2 were pretty good. Give me Fallout + the Gothic series over those old crummy stale titles like Realms of Arkania anyday.

I guess you could say RPG's to me mean

-A player character with full interaction with a large gameworld
-Just enough skill points to be fun and engaging but not too much to make character generation tedius
-The big one, CHOICES. CONSEQUENCES. and the world shifting itself accordingly to those actions from how the player uses this freedom, possibly altering the plot itself.
-Many sidequests and fun activities on the side i.e. ....i dunno, use your imagination; growing plants, constructing better equiuipment in a deep skill-based way, breeding animals (something along the lines of Chocobo breeding in FF7) constructing your own house, things like that.

 

[JrK]

I do think a lot of older games that are generally remembered as 'fine RPG's' aren't such when you objectively look at it, or at least not good ones. Personally I'd like to put the emphasis on character skills and their impact on the gameworld, meaning choices and consequences, and more important, different choices depending on skillsets etc. This also means it's more fun to 'develop', both in the stat-sense as the psychological sense, a character during the course of the adventure, which is one of the aspects of RPG's, both PnP and cRPG, I personally like very much.

One of the biggest problems that brings with it is balance. I think I have an easy time with most games, and only the really hard like Battle-Toads and Ghosts&Goblins stand out. This means that the balance is naturally 'too easy' for me, so I really remember those guys that are hard at the beginning, and become more easy the further you get, excepting perhaps the 'end boss'. That's why I fondly remember games like BG, Fallout, Daggerfall and Morrowind.

 

[sheek]

I definately favor the RPG with one character that has more choices and consequences, than thos frustratingly boring, slow-paced all action party based ones like the wizardry games.

I have the same preference. Because usually party-based games take away the focus from role-playing through the use of 'party banter' and gay shit like that.

Although I did think Baldur's gate 1 and 2 were pretty good. Give me Fallout + the Gothic series over those old crummy stale titles like Realms of Arkania anyday.

I thought you were OK but now you're being a Dumbfuck again, contradicting yourself. Baldur's Gate is one of the shittiest 'classics' ever made while Realms of Arkania is an underrated classic. I'm not a huge fanboy of it like Jasede but it was going in the right direction (isometric TB-combat, simple 2D interface etc). Baldur's Gate went in the totally homosexual direction and is unfortunately still influencing RPGs today.

-A player character with full interaction with a large gameworld
-Just enough skill points to be fun and engaging but not too much to make character generation tedius
-The big one, CHOICES. CONSEQUENCES. and the world shifting itself accordingly to those actions from how the player uses this freedom, possibly altering the plot itself.
-Many sidequests and fun activities on the side i.e. ....i dunno, use your imagination; growing plants, constructing better equiuipment in a deep skill-based way, breeding animals (something along the lines of Chocobo breeding in FF7) constructing your own house, things like that.

You could have just posted "What sheek said"...

 

[Durwyn]

RPG:
- Bloom is a must!
- 8 playable races - lizard race is a must too!
- Level Scalling for hardkor RPG playerz
- Mudcrabs !
- No consequences for players choices. Game must be easy and stressless

 

[Balor]

2. A fantasy setting based loosely on the works of Tolkien.

Huh?!

7. An evil wizard and an orb.

WTF?

12. Set/Random Encounters/Bosses.

Yea, you cannot have RPGs without bosses. Mario is teh bestested RPG evar!

Hey! Perhaps by CRPG he meant C(onsole)RPG? heh.

 

[bozia2012]

RPG:
- Bloom is a must!
- 8 playable races - lizard race is a must too!
- Level Scalling for hardkor RPG playerz
- Mudcrabs !
- No consequences for players choices. Game must be easy and stressless

- ability to retrieve spent character points
- epic score
- romances for PC
- no requirements for joining guilds
- no xp rewards for dialogues (NOT EVERYONE IS A FAKIN GEEK WHO LIKES TO REED!!!1)
- branched dialoques but leading to the same outcome (do you expect from me to save games before DIALOGUES??!!)
- quick level progression (who cares that getting to 15lvl requires years of adventuring - I WANT MY EPIC FEATS!!)
- elves with pointy ears, armor design from LotR movies
- dumb enemies, unable to use tactics, ambush you, assassinate (poison, backstab - of course barbarians are immune to that )
- bad must be bad and good must be good (maybe except that main questgiver's sidekick that is mean to me - he must be treitor!!!)

 

[Stalagmite]

I thought you were OK but now you're being a Dumbfuck again

Oh darn! What do I do? When was the first time, anyway? I got a good, tacticulal fun feel out of BG 1 & 2 if not so much as roleplaying. Sorry about the confusion.

You could have just posted "What sheek said"...

I post my own shit, thank you.

 

[Sarvis]

I don't know why you guys are still debating this, I defined CRPGs for you guys a long, long time ago.

 

[FrancoTAU]

Did Zelda fall into your defintion? It's my favoritist RPG evah!

 

[kingcomrade]

But by this definition then many strategy games are RPGs if they have RPG on the box.

There is no such thing as a strategy game with RPG written on the box.

 

[Jasede]

Kingdom Under Fire.

 

[Volourn]

RPG = Role-playing game. There's your defintion. Game over, FOLKS, game over. You guys try to make things way too complicated. R00fles!

 

[Voss]

Someone clearly needs to be raped to death by a goat.

 

[kingcomrade]

Kingdom Under Fire.

Wrong. It is an RPG with heavy strategy influence. Look, guys, I think the devs know what they are talking about.

 

[Elhoim]

I think that the main component of a RPG is the potential to play any role that you want your character (or party) to be, with the freedom of choices and subsequent consequences.

Looting, exp, stats, etc. are not part of the definition of what a RPG is, but the system that tries to give the component I described before.

Maybe I´m looking it from an actoral point of view, in where a Role Playing Game focuses on choosing a role and playing it in all it´s aspects (what choices would your character make, etc.). In CRPGs, the stats, tech trees, etc, are just a system that helps the player fullfill the desired role to its full potential.

 

[Lumpy]

2. A fantasy setting based loosely on the works of Tolkien.

Huh?!

7. An evil wizard and an orb.

WTF?

12. Set/Random Encounters/Bosses.

Yea, you cannot have RPGs without bosses. Mario is teh bestested RPG evar!

Hey! Perhaps by CRPG he meant C(onsole)RPG? heh.

He was giving common traits, not what makes an RPG good.
And he Sci-fi settings were number 3., below Tolkienish. It seems quite appropriate.

 

[Voss]

I think that the main component of a RPG is the potential to play any role that you want your character (or party) to be, with the freedom of choices and subsequent consequences.

I find your argument to be meaningless drivel. By the above, nothing is RPG, by the sheer fact that nothing I have ever played has allowed my character to be Grace Jones, no matter how badly I want it.