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Ken Rolston un-retires for a big huge RPG

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
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I like this part:

"“I think one thing that is really cool about RPGs is that the story aspect appeals to a broad player base,” Train said in a phone interview. “Obviously, there are a lot of people out there playing consoles. We think that the concepts and the story that we’ve come up with are really cool and we want to get them into the hands of every single person we can. That means putting it out on as many formats as the technical scope of the game can handle.”

Awesome. A lot of people like RPGs + a lot of people are playing consoles = console RPGs = a lot of money. The secret formula for success has finally been revealed.
 

Delirious Nomad

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***tries to resist, but fails:***

Everything post-Troika bore the shitting daylight out of me , so i got myself a PS2 only to find a cornucopia of turn based RPGs.
Take the Shin Megami series or the Nippon Ichi games ( Disgaea 1+2, Makai Kingdom... ) and all the other Strategy RPGs ( like Front Mission, Stella Deus,Arc The Lad...) or Metal Saga ( non linear turn based post-apocalyptic RPG ), the Suikoden series and much more.
On the message boards of Disgaea, for an example, you can find a lot of people putting more than 300 hours into the game.
So i suggest looking for the game, not for the platform.
 

suibhne

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There are plenty of real historical examples you can pull out to support the thesis that cross-platform development will probably "dumb down" an RPG. There's nothing you can pull out to support the thesis that consoles are definitionally more "casual" a platform than PCs. Seriously, this is silly and it misses the point.

If anything, consoles are less "casual", since there are far more loooooooong games (requiring a huge commitment of time) on consoles than on PCs - and the ubiquitous save-point system means it's actually much easier to pick up a PC game than a console game when you only have 15 minutes to play. But I don't think that's an especially useful thesis, either. :wink:
 

Journeyman

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For Oblivion they tried to strike a decent balance between the modding community/input console for the PC and XBOX for the console (so allot of XBOXERS whine about that but in the end they seem pacified by their bonuses better :)). But didn't go far enough probably because of the the new graphics tools. Ex: UI, railroad quests etc.
Now, if they can get random 3d dungeons. The houses and dungeons still felt random to me. Although I would want random puzzles.

Allot of games that are keyboard/mod centric, like NWN, would have a hard time pleasing a console crowd and therefore wouldn't' profit as much.
TES is very random and FP centric so it floated over to the console but I am not against comsoles if your game is very approachable from the beginning which TES is like, as long as there are clear version distinctions. The whole initial point of TES was to be an intelligent Quake like UU.

I would assume this new game by BHGs will be closer to Dragon Age (multiplayer, isometric, single player, FP, hybrid) than TES, since they are more into strategy and Rolston is into First Person, although I prefer TES style but actually I think DA is a brand new style so I have to see as long as it is a little more freeing than NWN and I can jump alone while my dudes wait outside somewhere...
 

Fez

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What about the turn-based console RPGs from Japan?
 

Astromarine

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Hardcode is full of shit. That's basically all there is to it. Having all consoles that can be considered semi-recent except the PS3, I can unequivocally state that 90% of "mainstream" i.e. non independent PC games are more casual than console games. Gran Turismo is casual? The people who spend hundreds of hours on replaying Resident Evil or Silent Hill are casual? Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, a turn-based RPG where the first thing that happens is the destruction of the earth and you end up fighting Lucifer, the Archangel Gabriel, and other Judaico-Christian figures dozens of hours later is casual?

It's like the casual game developer said: you're being an elitist prick. Nothing wrong with that, but at least admit it like a man, you pussy.
 

Elhoim

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Journeyman said:
Elhoim said:
I think DA is a brand new style

You haven´t played too many CRPGs, right?

Ouch :)
Aren't they going for a full first person plus isometric style. I don't think I've seen that. Or is it just a hyped up NWN?

Nope. It´s just the 3rd person camera when moving around (like KOTOR) that changes to "isometric" (top down NWN) when in combat. You can do that manually in NWN, but here is automatic and more polished. A nice camera feature, but hardly groundbreaking.
 

Jim Kata

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Astromarine said:
Hardcode is full of shit. That's basically all there is to it. Having all consoles that can be considered semi-recent except the PS3, I can unequivocally state that 90% of "mainstream" i.e. non independent PC games are more casual than console games. Gran Turismo is casual? The people who spend hundreds of hours on replaying Resident Evil or Silent Hill are casual? Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, a turn-based RPG where the first thing that happens is the destruction of the earth and you end up fighting Lucifer, the Archangel Gabriel, and other Judaico-Christian figures dozens of hours later is casual?

It's like the casual game developer said: you're being an elitist prick. Nothing wrong with that, but at least admit it like a man, you pussy.

It depends on your definition of casual. If you are rapt with attention while watching the terminator series by your (retarded) definition you are a serious moviegoer. On the other hand if you mean that action movies are less serious in general than foreign movies which can only be obtained through certain means and require effort to read the subtitles then no it's you who is full of shit.
 

geminito

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I've never heard about any contributions Ken made to Elder Scrolls, and I thought I've been paying attention. What are the decisions he has made, and why does the RPG Codex "hivemind" take his side? Big Headed Games says he was "lead designer", so should you hate him for designing Oblivion to be a game that the hive hates?

Is this a setup or a contradiction??
 

Dmitron

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Astromarine said:
Gran Turismo is casual?

Please.. The Gran Turismo card always get's played.
Compared to what, Richard Burns Rally, Grand Prix Legends, GTR? Yes, Gran Turismo is fucking casual.

What has console gaming done for my favorite PC FPS franchises? Hmm..simplified them, added features to the HUD that allow for easier play, substituted realism for slick meaningless graphics\features. I wouldn't describe the console-only demographic as casual. I'd describe them as..baggy pants wearing bean bagging sitting spiky haired, faggots? Hardcore. Get fucked.

And I like consoles. I like the games, they have their niche. As long as they don't start absorbing long time PC franchises. Because consoles gaming is different to PC gaming. It's designed to be simpler, accessible, easily played on a gamepad. Casual. Don't quote me some plot about "Lucifer", what the fuck has plot got to do with basic gameplay mechanics? How many girlfriends out there prefer playing a console to their boyfriend's PC? Average console gamers, are casual. You think all those gamers invest 100s of hours into console titles? No. You think those that don't..are going to get into PC gaming..?

The average joe who owns a console: would enjoy installing games, sometimes..off multiple disks, making sure the game runs correctly, updating his drivers, sitting on a chair in front of a monitor - vs reclining on his favorite couch, in front of his big screen low res TV?
 

Saint_Proverbius

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I know Ken worked on PARANOIA, which pretty much thumbed it's nose at and turned the PnP RPGs on their ears in a good and innovative way. If he can still do for CRPGs what PARANOIA did for PnP RPGs, I'd be happy.
 

HardCode

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Jim Kata said:
Astromarine said:
Hardcode is full of shit. That's basically all there is to it. Having all consoles that can be considered semi-recent except the PS3, I can unequivocally state that 90% of "mainstream" i.e. non independent PC games are more casual than console games. Gran Turismo is casual? The people who spend hundreds of hours on replaying Resident Evil or Silent Hill are casual? Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, a turn-based RPG where the first thing that happens is the destruction of the earth and you end up fighting Lucifer, the Archangel Gabriel, and other Judaico-Christian figures dozens of hours later is casual?

It's like the casual game developer said: you're being an elitist prick. Nothing wrong with that, but at least admit it like a man, you pussy.

It depends on your definition of casual. If you are rapt with attention while watching the terminator series by your (retarded) definition you are a serious moviegoer. On the other hand if you mean that action movies are less serious in general than foreign movies which can only be obtained through certain means and require effort to read the subtitles then no it's you who is full of shit.

Granted I wasn't too clear at 2:30 a.m., but I think that Jim Kata is understanding me here. I am trying to imply that casual games are dumbed-down games (consolized), where non-casual games are games that take more time, patience, and though over controller skills. Reference Oblivion. Look how weak RPG-wise the KotOR games are (consoles! bing!). You can find a million versions of chess for the PC, but how many versions of chess are available or known about on consoles? Not too many I think, because that isn't what a casual gamer wants.

A console gamer may spend 10 hours a day every day playing Madden games on a console, but they are casual gamers. They are playing a game that doesn't take much thought, and it is a small, static ruleset that is repeated over and over. The only difference is the color of the uniforms on each team, and different player names. Casual game. GTA is a casual game. A great game for the genre, but still a casual game. Drive, shoot people, blow up stuff. Casual. Sure, play it for 10 hours a day for 6 months straight, but it is casual.

RPGs aren't supposed to be casual, so they don't belong on consoles. Attempts to consolize RPGs dilutes them, or as we say they become dumbed down. The same player that plays so called RPGs on consoles also has Madden, GTA, and other casual games stacked on the entertainment center, and that casual gamer will become bored with a real RPG, so the developers dumb down the RPGs to keep that game DVD in the console over Madden and GTA. Reference Oblivion and KotOR.
 

mister lamat

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the x-box live system kills your theory. some folks are competitive and dedicated on an almost unhealthy level. we're talking something akin to koreans and starcraft and we know there's nothing 'casual' about that. are the games easy to pick up and play? sure. so is chess.

your small, static ruleset comment defines what crpgs have become. look how 'casual' rpgs are on the pc. lazy, unimaginative development reliant on archaic concepts developed for pen and paper games. build a character one way, see some choices, build it another and it's still a very 'casual' experience. they swap out some names here and there, add a few skills to suit the setting and it's the same tired bullshit that's been going on for almost thirty years now. easy to grasp concepts, repeated over and over because devs are afraid to change and most 'hardcore' players are too stupid to recognize what may be good cuz it's outside the box.

i gotta ask, did you shred your dick trying to fuck the cartridge port on an old nes or something? can you show us where the bad console touched you?
 

suibhne

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Here's a further update from FiringSquad:
Train told us that the company had been working on a concept for an RPG title for the last couple of years but that hardcore development of the game's prototype only started in September of 2006. While the company was out showing the prototype to various publishers, they dediced to try and recuit Rolston who had actually announced his retirement from developing games after working on both Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind and Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. According to Train, Rolston was enthusiasitc about joining the team after learning about their RPG plans. Rolston was hired a few months ago, according to Train, and soon afterward Big Huge Games locked their publisher for the title as well. Unfortuately Train declined to talk about the game itself, including publisher, type of game design and a release date. He did say that contrary to the Big Huge Games press release about Rolston's hiring (which implied that the game would be console only) the RPG game would also be released for the PC, although the console version would be the main platform for the title.

Big Huge Games's next title will in fact be a console title as they are developing a version of the classic board game CATAN for Microsoft's Xbox Live Arcade service. Train told us that not only is the game something of a labor of love for the dev team (especially company co-founder Brian Reynolds who is a big fan of the original board game) but it was also a chance to dip their hand in the console dev waters for the first time. Train emphasied that they are not abandoning their strategy game roots, saying that a new RTS title is also in the works (again, he declined to go into details) but that getting into console game development was important for them, especially now with the popularity of consoles and the ability to update games via downloadable content.

BHG has a lot of talented designers and developers, no doubt about it. And the early buzz I've heard about their Catan conversion is really promising; it sounds like it'll be decidedly un-halfassed. (I wish they'd release the damn thing on the Wii. :D) But they're clearly targeting consoles for the larger market, and who knows what that'll mean. I don't think there's any reason a console game must be dumbed-down, that there's no alternative - but we've seen it happen over and over, especially with RPGs.
 

elander_

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baby arm said:
How about some of the people behind Alpha Centauri.

Oh that's nice. His experience in rpg and adventure games joined with his team experience in strategy games should give good results.

HardCode said:
In theory: Console games are the in-home arcade games. You turn on the TV, turn on the console, play the same game over and over for high score, and turn it off. No true "saving", maybe checkpoints or codes to enter. No longevity in games.

Hey consoles are changing and even the way people see TV is changing. I personally refuse to buy anything without a keyboard or an harddisk. I played great game on my micro-computer (commodore Amiga) and i'm not wasting any money in less than that.
 

Volourn

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Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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"The console is a casual gamer environment."

Absolute, and utter bullshit. They ahve their shar eof casual gamers as do PCs; but they also have their share of hardcore gamers.


"Console RPG = Action RPG"

O RLY?

Outside of FF12, the vast majority of FFs are turnbased RPGs. And, while JE may be an Action RPG, it has more role-playing than 99% of PC RPGs including all of BIO's previously efforts (aside from DMed NWN games).


"CRPG = BG, Fallout, DA etc."

O RLY?

When I think PC RPG, I tend to think POR2, Diablo, DS, and Sacred.


R00fles!


D0uble R00fles!
 

Jim Kata

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mister lamat said:
the x-box live system kills your theory. some folks are competitive and dedicated on an almost unhealthy level. we're talking something akin to koreans and starcraft and we know there's nothing 'casual' about that. are the games easy to pick up and play? sure. so is chess.

I would say that you have language comprehension problems but I am convinced many people here simply have incoherent minds. Obviously your idea of what a casual gamer is is completely idiotic.
 

galsiah

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The whole notion of dividing all gamers into two categories: Casual and Hardcore; is idiotic.
Both these terms are overworked to mean vastly different things depending on context, simply because no-one bothers to come up with a more reasonable classification.
Since using these terms in a discussion inevitably leads to misunderstanding, and often a dispute over definitions, it'd make sense to abandon them entirely.
 

obediah

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Saint_Proverbius said:
I know Ken worked on PARANOIA, which pretty much thumbed it's nose at and turned the PnP RPGs on their ears in a good and innovative way. If he can still do for CRPGs what PARANOIA did for PnP RPGs, I'd be happy.

But PARANOIA was a very casual PnP RPG. A casual CRPG is going to get so much 'ZOMG DUMMD 4 KONSUL KIDD33S' flak from the codex. It will probably deserve it though. Oh well, I set my video/computer game expectations in the gutter years ago, all the surprises are pleasant.
 

HardCode

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galsiah said:
Both these terms are overworked to mean vastly different things depending on context, simply because no-one bothers to come up with a more reasonable classification. Since using these terms in a discussion inevitably leads to misunderstanding, and often a dispute over definitions, it'd make sense to abandon them entirely.

I whole-heartedly agree. That there is such room for varying perspectives on what casual or hard-core actually mean, we can easily get a thread like this were no one is on the same page.

Just to give definition a shot:

To me, a casual gamer is one who plays games where winning is the ultimate goal, and not caring about how they played the game to get there. For a casual gamer, something like Asteroids. They want to get the high score or they want to beat the guy next to them holding the other controller. They don't care or remember what they did to get that high score. Only the high score matters and is remembered. Games that I would consider casual are Madden and other sports video games, Tetris, Half-Life, etc. I am not saying that they are bad games, or someone is bad for playing them, but they are casual.

A hard-core gamer is one where the road is just as interesting, memorable, and important as the destination. Such as RPG games. No one probably cares as much about "winning" an RPG as they care about what they did to get there. Games I would consider hard-core are chess, real RPGs, simulators. Sure, casual gamers may try them out, but they are likely to abandon them. Hard-core players will enjoy the road to get to the end.

I know, I've been both over the years.
 

Volourn

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"Games that I would consider casual are Madden"

Your defintion is stupid; because I mostc ertainly don't play Madden the way you describe.

Your defintion is stupid becaused it's too open to interpreation and too much individualism as different players can approach the same game and completely different ways.

What a dumbass.

Please, try again.
 

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